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  1. #16
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    The Rams drafting Crabtree would be like a homeless person buying a jetski.

    Let's deal with necessities before luxuries.

    Yes Crabtree has done well this year, but i'm not sure he what the doc ordered . Line is a pressing issue. but so is QB in my book.

    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

  2. #17
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    But we'd better be damn sure we have some alternate plans for addressing the offensive line if that's the case, because that's not a unit we can just move some guys around on and think we can solve.
    I think that all Rams fans agree that centre is our weakest spot on the OL. Alex Mack will almost certainly go in the first round but there's a plethora of talent available behind him: Luigs, Unger, Caldwell, Wood, Shipley... any of these guys would be an improvement on Leckey right from day one. Sadly, I can't see Matt Birk opting to join us, no matter how much we'd love it to happen!

    Our 2009 line would then be, assuming that we miss out on the three top LTs (as this thread implies), something like:

    LT: Pace, Goldberg
    LG: Bell, Schuening
    C: new guy, Leckey
    RG: Setterstrom, Cogs
    RT: Barron, Greco

    Needless to say, we could improve things through free agency as well. Okay, there's room for improvement there but we can't address all of our woes in one year.

  3. #18
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post


    The concern I have with the theory though is that you're depending on our current talent at offensive line to get the job done. This is our biggest problem as a fan base, and perhaps every fan base is like this. But we're not as talented as we think we are!
    Anyone who needs to be told THIS is not operating with a full deck. Stevie Wonder can see the lack of TALENT on this OL. The needs are glaring. Taking a WR at the TOP of the draft would be beyond stupid for this team right now. There is a MAJOR (WR) talent who will be there later in the draft by the name of Ramses Barden (FCS- Cal Poly). He doesnt have Randy Moss speed but he is 6' 6" - 227 and has 15 TDs so far this year with a 20yd per catch average. You will be seeing this kid on Sundays for years to come.
    "You people point your 'f'in' finger and say theres the bad guy....what that make you....good?" Tony Montana

  4. #19
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    i think having crabtree on our side would be great, it would make us a very big threat to opposing teams, have 3 rb's in jackson, pittman, and leanord(darby), and of course having burton, avery and crabtree as wideouts would compliment the passing game that much more, especially if Mcmichael stays healthy...

    of course i understand us not being able to do ANYTHiNG if we dont get our OL issues taken care of, but i would love to see us picking him up should he still be available..

    GOOD FUTURE DRAFT PiCKS, HERE WE COME!..

  5. #20
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    You can't operate under the assumption that basically ALL our O-linemen all of a sudden improve dramatically and use that as an excuse to pick a WR with our first rounder. What has anyone seen to indicate that guys like Greco or Schuening or Leckey or Setterstrom or Goldberg or Romberg have the ability to play O-line in the NFL at a solid starting level? Guys like Barron, Incognito and Bell are arguably better than the aforementioned group, but still all three have very serious problems (excessive penalties and poor play). That adds up to a whole lot of questionmarks on our O-line. Assuming we have some luck (for once!) one or two of those players are going to improve dramatically next year, but it still leaves a couple of holes, especially when you consider Pace's fragile health.

    If you want to argue that if the top OT's are gone Crabtree is simply the best value that's possible. But please let's stay in the real world and assume that our O-line will at best only be marginally better if we don't add new top talent to it. As Avenger said (in other words ), picking a WR in this situation is a luxury that we cannot afford. Especially when we used two picks on WR's just this year, we need to have a little confidence in those picks and try to develop them too.

    In my opinion we will probably get a shot at one of the top OT's because I doubt we will win anything the rest of the way, one game tops. And I think it is likely that with a #5 pick or so both top OT's will not be taken (two OT's in the top 5 doesn't happen often). Hopefully that will be the case and we can pick an OT in the first and a QB to develop in one of the later rounds.

  6. #21
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    If we don't pick him up this year...but generally want the same kind of receiver next year..then take a look at Arrelious Benn...that's if we have an early first round pick. He's a stud.

  7. #22
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    if we pick say 4th overall and end up picking the 3rd best OT with it..then im gonna turn my neighbourhood into the Garza Strip!

    i love linemen with a passion and understand every reason why we need to improve in that department...but to throw a top 5 pick at someone just because they are at a position of need is insane ,perhaps not as insane as the Raiders spending a 1st round pick on a Punter back in the day,but insane nonetheless... id rather throw a second or third rounder at an LT and get Crabtree than to pick the 3rd best at one position when we can pick the numero uno prospect at virtually every other position...

    is not like we one OT away from being over the bump!

  8. #23
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblin` Ram View Post
    if we pick say 4th overall and end up picking the 3rd best OT with it..then im gonna turn my neighbourhood into the Garza Strip!

    i love linemen with a passion and understand every reason why we need to improve in that department...but to throw a top 5 pick at someone just because they are at a position of need is insane ,perhaps not as insane as the Raiders spending a 1st round pick on a Punter back in the day,but insane nonetheless... id rather throw a second or third rounder at an LT and get Crabtree than to pick the 3rd best at one position when we can pick the numero uno prospect at virtually every other position...

    is not like we one OT away from being over the bump!
    Agreed, we are so bad that we should take the best player available, regardless of need. Unless of course they are a running back, and unfortunately a QB. I see Bulger being here for at least two more years. This should give us time to rebuild and groom a replacement without getting him killed. Hopefully need meets availability with a top OT, but lets say I won't cry if we get Crabtree

  9. #24
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    This team is so talent deficiant that they need to just take the best talent available at their spot. DO not try and make a player play another position, take the all american if that Crabtree great if it happend ot be a OT great as well but I hope they just dont try and make it fit like they have before, take the game changing talent

  10. #25
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    I personally am not sold on the fact that we don't have talent along the O-line. I believe our problems have as much to do with our blocking schemes and cohesiveness as they do with the talent on the field.

    Beyond that, Jackson, Krieder, and the rest of our backs and TEs could use a crash course in blitz pick-up. Jackson in particular needs to improve his blocking. If we didn't have talent, a game like the one against Dallas would not've been possible.

    So believing that we do have talent on the O-line, Michael Crabtree is without a doubt, a bonafide top notch option should he be there when we picked.

    And unlike Nick, I believe Lauranitas and/or Mauluaga would be tremendous picks and instant impact starters on our defense. Like Jenkins as well, but would prefer we got established NFL talent at corner. Maybe Torry Holt to the Eagles for Lito Shepherd or something of that nature.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -11-18-2008 at 09:06 PM.

  11. #26
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Right now, we're slotted to pick fifth overall.

    If the top two offensive tackles (Smith, Oher) are gone, then I think Crabtree should have about as much chance of being our pick as anyone else. The guy is a beast on the field. He reminds me in a lot of ways of Larry Fitzgerald with his ability to go up and get a pass. Great getting YAC, which we need. Would make for a nice compliment opposite of Avery.

    You have to ask yourself what other options we have with that pick that represent better value? I don't believe that Maualuga or Laurinaitis are Top Five prospects after the juniors come out. Very rarely is a linebacker taken that high to begin with, and I just don't think those two are up there right now. I see them on the edge of the Top Ten at best, but maybe that's something they can improve upon with top notch offseasons.

    The only other option I see for us at that spot from a value perspective - and obviously a lot can change between now and the draft when it comes to value - is a cornerback, namely Malcolm Jenkins. He has great size and is as close to a shutdown corner as you're going to get coming out of college IMO, plus Ohio State has a history of putting out quality cornerbacks. We certainly could use some more talent at cornerback... or even some talent to begin with.

    The concern I have with the theory though is that you're depending on our current talent at offensive line to get the job done. This is our biggest problem as a fan base, and perhaps every fan base is like this. But we're not as talented as we think we are! This offensive line has been downright horrible for more than half a decade now. Barron's strength is supposed to be his pass pro, but he's allowed five sacks in ten games and is still after how many seasons is not mentally in the game yet. Incognito can open some holes in the running game but he's part of a weak pass blocking interior and shows a dangerous penchant for borderline dirty play. Like Barron, that hasn't improved during his time here.

    We have some guys who may work out (Greco, Setterstrom) but we need to be realistic here. Barron needs competition and then needs the door after his final contract year in 2009. Incognito is an RFA after this season, I'm indifferent as to whether or not he's brought back. We need a solution at center that doesn't involve someone we already have on this roster. Free agent, rookie, combination of both... have to do something to fix that spot. Bell has the LG spot locked down for right now if only because of money. Pace is solid when he's on the field, but that's nothing you can count on. We need something long-term behind him rather than Adam Goldberg.

    If we can't get one of the top offensive tackles with our first pick, then that does open up the opportunity for Crabtree or Jenkins or, if their stock improves or if we drop in the order, a linebacker like Maualuga or Laurinaitis. But we'd better be damn sure we have some alternate plans for addressing the offensive line if that's the case, because that's not a unit we can just move some guys around on and think we can solve.
    I haven't seen either LB in the top 10 in any mock draft I"ve seen so far. Nick but provided a miracle we are still 2-3 years away from being a major player so why pass up on a sure thing like Crabtree, not to mention this class is littered with OT prospects. The safe pick would be OT, but I just hate to pass up a player like Crabtree if he's there. Look at our WR's part of the problem (along w/ the line & Bulger) is that the only pass play we have is Avery deeeeeeeep, we need a player that can compliment that, someone that can get open, and Crabtree would do that for years to come. Then you put Burton in the slot....my oh my.

    Quote Originally Posted by DistantRam View Post
    I think that all Rams fans agree that centre is our weakest spot on the OL. Alex Mack will almost certainly go in the first round but there's a plethora of talent available behind him: Luigs, Unger, Caldwell, Wood, Shipley... any of these guys would be an improvement on Leckey right from day one. Sadly, I can't see Matt Birk opting to join us, no matter how much we'd love it to happen!

    Our 2009 line would then be, assuming that we miss out on the three top LTs (as this thread implies), something like:

    LT: Pace, Goldberg
    LG: Bell, Schuening
    C: new guy, Leckey
    RG: Setterstrom, Cogs
    RT: Barron, Greco

    Needless to say, we could improve things through free agency as well. Okay, there's room for improvement there but we can't address all of our woes in one year.
    Good point, Center is the main need right now, which is why I started to think why do we have to go with an OT in the first wrong when there are so many we can work with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblin` Ram View Post
    if we pick say 4th overall and end up picking the 3rd best OT with it..then im gonna turn my neighbourhood into the Garza Strip!

    i love linemen with a passion and understand every reason why we need to improve in that department...but to throw a top 5 pick at someone just because they are at a position of need is insane ,perhaps not as insane as the Raiders spending a 1st round pick on a Punter back in the day,but insane nonetheless... id rather throw a second or third rounder at an LT and get Crabtree than to pick the 3rd best at one position when we can pick the numero uno prospect at virtually every other position...

    is not like we one OT away from being over the bump!
    Exactly, now if we were one OL away from greatness then I'd say "heck yeah", but we aren't so why not get a game changer and work from there. Ok, AV, Infiniti, Nick...going of this point what say ye?

  12. #27
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    Ok. Let's see.

    We can take two approaches in this draft.
    1) Pick a STUD o-linemen in the first round.

    2) Pick a very talented player in a skill position, and then solidify our o-line with our 2-4 rounders.
    _______________________________________________________________________________
    Ok so choice 1.

    This would be the case of picking Oher, Smith or even Monroe. I am certain that Oher and Smith would be great tackles from day one, and Monroe I'm not sold out on yet.
    So with our first rounder gone, we go
    2nd round:WR/MLB/SS
    3rd round:CB/C/G/SS
    4th round:CB/G/DT

    Somewhere along those lines. After the 4th round, basically take the best player available. Now here's the thing. IF we do choose to go this route, then Crabtree of course would not be an option, but our o-line would be very stabilized.

    Option 2.

    We pick Crabtree, Maualauga,or Lauranaitis.
    *Crabtree would help make us have a dominant passing game, with him, Avery, Burton, McMichael.
    *Rey and James would give us some much needed help on our run defense, because then Witherspoon and Pisa could take full advantage of their speed because they'll be on the outside.

    Then, we pick some solid linemen with our middle round picks. I know that there is a lot of depth in this year's draft for o-linemen.
    TACKLES
    Britton 6'6, 310lbs
    Loadholt 6'8, 350lbs
    Tupou 6'5, 328lbs
    Parrish 6'6, 308lbs
    CENTER
    Luigs 6'4, 314lbs
    Caldwell 6'3, 294lbs
    Shipley 6'1, 298lbs
    Unger 6'5, 300lbs
    Wood 6'2, 304lbs

    GUARDS
    Johnson 6'7, 349lbs
    Canfield 6'5, 310lbs
    Parker 6'3, 305lbs
    Kemp 6'5, 318lbs
    Feinga 6'5, 329lbs



    If we do decide to pick Crabtree, let's hope he doesn't do too well in the Combine. Because if he did, Al Davis would crap his pants and immediately draft him.
    Last edited by RockinRam; -11-18-2008 at 09:39 PM.

  13. #28
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinRam View Post
    Ok. Let's see.

    We can take two approaches in this draft.
    1) Pick a STUD o-linemen in the first round.

    2) Pick a very talented player in a skill position, and then solidify our o-line with our 2-4 rounders.
    _______________________________________________________________________________
    Ok so choice 1.

    This would be the case of picking Oher, Smith or even Monroe. I am certain that Oher and Smith would be great tackles from day one, and Monroe I'm not sold out on yet.
    So with our first rounder gone, we go
    2nd round:WR/MLB/SS
    3rd round:CB/C/G/SS
    4th round:CB/G/DT

    Somewhere along those lines. After the 4th round, basically take the best player available. Now here's the thing. IF we do choose to go this route, then Crabtree of course would not be an option, but our o-line would be very stabilized.

    Option 2.

    We pick Crabtree, Maualauga,or Lauranaitis.
    *Crabtree would help make us have a dominant passing game, with him, Avery, Burton, McMichael.
    *Rey and James would give us some much needed help on our run defense, because then Witherspoon and Pisa could take full advantage of their speed because they'll be on the outside.

    Then, we pick some solid linemen with our middle round picks. I know that there is a lot of depth in this year's draft for o-linemen.
    TACKLES
    Britton 6'6, 310lbs
    Loadholt 6'8, 350lbs
    Tupou 6'5, 328lbs
    Parrish 6'6, 308lbs
    CENTER
    Luigs 6'4, 314lbs
    Caldwell 6'3, 294lbs
    Shipley 6'1, 298lbs
    Unger 6'5, 300lbs
    Wood 6'2, 304lbs

    GUARDS
    Johnson 6'7, 349lbs
    Canfield 6'5, 310lbs
    Parker 6'3, 305lbs
    Kemp 6'5, 318lbs
    Feinga 6'5, 329lbs
    Ah, my twin finally decides to chim in, well Rock I was sold at OT as well until I saw all of the depth of this years draft for O-linemen(better than last years I'd argue) and I thought "well since we aren't a player or 2 away, then why not go with the player that will if nothing else fill the seats". Shoot, atleast that way we'll be exciting. Plus Crabtree is a hard working and not a glamour/me first guy. Well that's it for me tonight, I'm about to cook, and then watch my North Carolina Tar Heels get to work!
    Go Heels!

  14. #29
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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    Quote Originally Posted by DistantRam View Post
    I think that all Rams fans agree that centre is our weakest spot on the OL. Alex Mack will almost certainly go in the first round but there's a plethora of talent available behind him: Luigs, Unger, Caldwell, Wood, Shipley... any of these guys would be an improvement on Leckey right from day one.
    I think it's a toss-up between center and LT. I agree that Mack will likely be gone barring some kind of poor offseason. I like the idea of Luigs or Caldwell in the third, if they slip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fargo Ram Fan View Post
    There is a MAJOR (WR) talent who will be there later in the draft by the name of Ramses Barden (FCS- Cal Poly). He doesnt have Randy Moss speed but he is 6' 6" - 227 and has 15 TDs so far this year with a 20yd per catch average. You will be seeing this kid on Sundays for years to come.
    He has intriguing size, but it takes more than simply being the tallest guy out there to sustain a successful NFL career. He's putting up good numbers at the FCS level but the key for him in the NFL will be whether or not he can separate, how well he runs pro routes, how well he gets in and out of his breaks, etc. I've heard some rumblings about some possible knee problems for him and a potential switch to TE at the next level. We'll be able to see in him the East West Shrine Game in January though, so that'll be exciting to watch. But he's going to have to show he can compete and run with the big dogs, too. If you get a chance to watch him against Wisconsin this weekend, keep us updated and let us know how he looked.

    Quote Originally Posted by RamOfDenmark View Post
    If you want to argue that if the top OT's are gone Crabtree is simply the best value that's possible.
    Agreed, and that was my point. You can't, IMO, take Crabtree over either of the top two OTs if you're the Rams, but if those guys are gone, you may be able to make the case that Crabtree is the highest graded player on your big board. And we're so bad everywhere that I don't think we can be especially picky.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblin` Ram View Post
    i love linemen with a passion and understand every reason why we need to improve in that department...but to throw a top 5 pick at someone just because they are at a position of need is insane ,perhaps not as insane as the Raiders spending a 1st round pick on a Punter back in the day,but insane nonetheless... id rather throw a second or third rounder at an LT and get Crabtree than to pick the 3rd best at one position when we can pick the numero uno prospect at virtually every other position...
    I would generally agree. That's why, if Smith and Oher are gone, I think the Rams look elsewhere. Be it WR, CB, LB, DE, something. I just don't think you can justify passing on those guys to take the third best tackle, who may be 5-10 slots lower on your board, just because you need the guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    And unlike Nick, I believe Lauranitas and/or Mauluaga would be tremendous picks and instant impact starters on our defense.
    Don't get me wrong, I think they're both great players and would likely both start at MLB with Witherspoon moving outside. I simply question whether or not, from a value perspective, they're one of the five best players available. Are we getting the most bang for our buck there? It's going to depend on what the choices are when the time comes. I have some concerns over Maualuga particularly, to be frank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Maybe Torry Holt to the Eagles for Lito Shepherd or something of that nature.
    If that trade was ever on the table, it's off now. I'd be shocked if anyone gave us anything for Torry Holt, what with his decline in production combined with his contract figures.

    I think it's more likely the Rams don't pay him the bonus he's owed this offseason and he becomes a free agent than him being traded for anyone solid enough to help us.

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofGod View Post
    Nick but provided a miracle we are still 2-3 years away from being a major player so why pass up on a sure thing like Crabtree, not to mention this class is littered with OT prospects.
    Because taking an OT gets you one step closer, even if you're 2-3 years away. And also because, when it's all said and done, I think guys like Smith and Oher grade out higher and as being better at their position than Crabtree does.

    Offensive lineman, particularly blind-side tackles, are going to be a hot commodity so I don't think you can count on being able to find one later in the draft even if you like the class' depth. Look at how many went in the first round last year.

    I simply see no reason, right now at least, that the Rams would want to pass on one of the top OTs to take Crabtree. If those two OTs are gone, then let's have the discussion. If they're available, it's no discussion at all IMO. And I say that as a huge Crabtree fan, but we have to improve this OL situation.

    The obvious caveat being that things can change. But this early in the discussion process, we should all assume that goes without saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofGod View Post
    Exactly, now if we were one OL away from greatness then I'd say "heck yeah", but we aren't so why not get a game changer and work from there. Ok, AV, Infiniti, Nick...going of this point what say ye?
    Because we're not one WR away from greatness either. How much game-changing do you think Crabtree is going to do when the guy throwing him the ball is playing from behind this line?

    Again, if it's a choice between a top OT and a top WR, I'm going OT. If those tackles are gone, then it becomes interesting and WR is one of a number of legit options.

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    Re: Micheal Crabtree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblin` Ram View Post
    if we pick say 4th overall and end up picking the 3rd best OT with it..then im gonna turn my neighbourhood into the Garza Strip!

    i love linemen with a passion and understand every reason why we need to improve in that department...but to throw a top 5 pick at someone just because they are at a position of need is insane ,perhaps not as insane as the Raiders spending a 1st round pick on a Punter back in the day,but insane nonetheless... id rather throw a second or third rounder at an LT and get Crabtree than to pick the 3rd best at one position when we can pick the numero uno prospect at virtually every other position...

    is not like we one OT away from being over the bump!
    ....cheers for this man, exactly what i was going to say, but BETTER!

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