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Thread: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Why would an S&C coach ever diagnose an injury? That's the PT's and/or Team Docs' job. Because neither injuries nor mental toughness falls under the purview of an S&C coach.

    If a team is physically weak on the field, or gets gassed on the field, then you look at the S&C coach. Not for injuries.


    All the power cleans in the world wouldn't have stopped Bartell from breaking his neck.
    All the sprints in the world wouldn't have stopped Bradford from his high ankle sprain.

    My point is pretty simple: "What forms the basis for Karney's beef?"

    You answered your own question. The Rams WERE frequently gassed and WERE frequently blown away at the point of attack throughout the season- reasons to question the effectiveness of the strength coaches. And while conditioning can't prevent certain injuries, it ABSOLUTELY can minimize the chances of others. While nothing is 100% foolproof, if you strengthen the muscles surrounding a joint, you can diminish the chance of injury- fact. And if a strength coach isn't maximizing his players' strength capabilitites, then to a certain extent injuries do "fall under the purview" of an S & C coach.
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Karney is nothing but a blowhard! Watch him on the NFL Network...bores me to tears.

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    You answered your own question.
    My only question was "why would an S&C coach ever diagnose an injury?" I don't recall answering that, or seeing an answer to that.
    The Rams WERE frequently gassed and WERE frequently blown away at the point of attack throughout the season- reasons to question the effectiveness of the strength coaches.
    Due to strength and conditioning, or lack of technique and talent? Or both?
    And while conditioning can't prevent certain injuries, it ABSOLUTELY can minimize the chances of others. While nothing is 100% foolproof, if you strengthen the muscles surrounding a joint, you can diminish the chance of injury- fact.
    To a certain degree, yes. But these are 200/250/300 pound men crashing into each other at 20 miles an hour.

    There are going to be injuries, regardless of what an S&C coaching staff does or doesn't do.

    I don't know a lot about Gullickson, or Karney for that matter. I do know that Guillickson was reported to be a very respected S&C coach with Green Bay. In fact, he was voted S&C coach of the year in 2008.

    Maybe he needs to go, maybe he doesn't; but my point is that it would be very simplistic and foolhardy to create an if/then equation where injuries equates with an incompetent S&C coach. A little bit of thought will show that's just silly.

    And I'm not saying you are making that equation. But some are.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    None the less, the team is pretty frail. Do we need to check for radon?
    "The horror"

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Clifton Ryan replied to Karney's tweet...

    @Karney44 the teacher & his pet lived to fight another day. Let the snitching & back stabbing continue
    So it wasn't just Karney who wasn't happy with them.

  6. #21
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Ok, its not like they came out and are ripping defensive coordinator or something for fun. For them to be very specific on strength and conditioning coach their must be substance behind it. Just the fact it came up, and another player agreed...I think issue deserves to be looked at

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by RamOG View Post
    Ok, its not like they came out and are ripping defensive coordinator or something for fun. For them to be very specific on strength and conditioning coach their must be substance behind it. Just the fact it came up, and another player agreed...I think issue deserves to be looked at
    I agree ...especially coming from a guy that knows his S&C.....It seems like Fisher will address this, and I think the only reason Fisher didn't make an immediate change is because of contract situations.

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    I'll let Fisher decide. We don't know if Karney is a straight up guy who tells it like it is or if he's a jerk who walks out of the room blasting all the players and coaches because nothing is his fault. Fisher is 100% qualified to make that determination and he will do the right thing I'm sure.

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Karney does sound a bit bitter, but that doesn't mean his complaints are without merit. Karney's not ripping the Rams organization, he's ripping specific guys, guys he was around. Plus, he probably has friends that are still on the team who tell him similar things too.

    I'm just hoping Fisher will intercede if he's not pleased with what he sees from the strength and conditioning programs. I trust him to recognize bad techniques and workouts more than the previous clowns.

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Don't see why people are automatically dismissing Karney's statements.

    They are very legitimate, and frankly they might be true.

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinRam View Post
    Don't see why people are automatically dismissing Karney's statements.

    They are very legitimate, and frankly they might be true.
    What makes them legitimate?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    What makes them legitimate?
    Because it would explain why players have diminished since they've gotten here, and why all of our players are so soft.

    I do not know why you are trying to protect the Strength Trainer so much. Like others have stated in this thread, there are multiple reasons why his statements aren't just paperweight.

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinRam View Post
    Don't see why people are automatically dismissing Karney's statements.

    They are very legitimate, and frankly they might be true.
    Twitter's legitimate. Thats a good one.

  14. #29
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinRam View Post
    Because it would explain why players have diminished since they've gotten here, and why all of our players are so soft.

    I do not know why you are trying to protect the Strength Trainer so much. Like others have stated in this thread, there are multiple reasons why his statements aren't just paperweight.
    Very fair question, Rockin. An excellent one actually.

    It's not Rock Gullickson that I'm ultimately trying to protect, but rather the level of thought in these threads. As I've said elsewhere, it'd be intellectually lazy to say "injuries = bad S&C coach"; and unfortunately that is the exact tone of this Gullickson discussion.

    Nobody has yet mentioned the fact the Rams have had plenty of injuries for several years now, not just the past 3. How is Gullickson responsible for St. Louis Rams injuries when he was with the Green Bay Packers? How is it that Gullickson, the 2008 S&C coach of the year, has suddenly forgotten how to be an S&C coach? How is Gullickson responsible for the numerous concussions this team has suffered from?

    You see? None of those make much sense. But some folks aren't willing to go any farther than the shallow end of the pool to think about it.

    Ultimately, all we can do is trust Fisher to get the guy he wants in the weight room. Maybe it's Gullickson, maybe it's not. I don't care.

    But if we're going to discuss it, we've got to actually think as we do, and not set up cardboard foundations that equate injuries with bad S&C coach. That's reminiscent of the witch scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

    Holy Grail --- you burn witches, wood burns, wood floats, ducks float, if she weighs the same as a duck, she's a witch. Burn her!!!!

    St. Louis Rams --- we have lots of injuries, injuries happen to the body, S&C coaches work with the body. Burn him!!!!
    live4ramin and RebelYell like this.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Worth also bearing in mind that Karney is BIG mates with Steven Jackson.

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