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Thread: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

  1. #31
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Very fair question, Rockin. An excellent one actually.

    It's not Rock Gullickson that I'm ultimately trying to protect, but rather the level of thought in these threads. As I've said elsewhere, it'd be intellectually lazy to say "injuries = bad S&C coach"; and unfortunately that is the exact tone of this Gullickson discussion.

    Nobody has yet mentioned the fact the Rams have had plenty of injuries for several years now, not just the past 3. How is Gullickson responsible for St. Louis Rams injuries when he was with the Green Bay Packers? How is it that Gullickson, the 2008 S&C coach of the year, has suddenly forgotten how to be an S&C coach? How is Gullickson responsible for the numerous concussions this team has suffered from?

    You see? None of those make much sense. But some folks aren't willing to go any farther than the shallow end of the pool to think about it.

    Ultimately, all we can do is trust Fisher to get the guy he wants in the weight room. Maybe it's Gullickson, maybe it's not. I don't care.

    But if we're going to discuss it, we've got to actually think as we do, and not set up cardboard foundations that equate injuries with bad S&C coach. That's reminiscent of the witch scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

    Holy Grail --- you burn witches, wood burns, wood floats, ducks float, if she weighs the same as a duck, she's a witch. Burn her!!!!

    St. Louis Rams --- we have lots of injuries, injuries happen to the body, S&C coaches work with the body. Burn him!!!!
    Oh don't get me wrong, I am not making the correlation that Gullickson = more injuries. Although a S&C coach does factor in somewhat to preventing injuries, ultimately it comes down to how injury prone each player is, and luck.


    But see, with the logic you use with Gullickson and how he was a great S&C coach before, and couldn't have magically become a bad one since coming to St. Louis, that same logic can be applied to Mike Karney, and other players that come here through FA.


    Mike Karney was considered a very tough, blue-collared fullback when with the Saints. He couldn't have magically gotten weaker and less effective since coming to St. Louis.

    Jason Brown arrived in 2009. Before with the Ravens, he was considered one of the best maulers in the guard and center position. Since coming here, he has looked weak and sluggish and overmatched.

    Jacob Bell arrive in 2008, and his first year here was pretty decent. However, he has declined since then, and is consistently looking weak.


    By the way, I don't put too much credibility in the S&C Coach of the Year Award. I feel like that can't accurately be judged or measured.


  2. #32
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by rockin
    Oh don't get me wrong, I am not making the correlation that Gullickson = more injuries.
    Nor do I mean to imply that you did.
    But see, with the logic you use with Gullickson and how he was a great S&C coach before, and couldn't have magically become a bad one since coming to St. Louis, that same logic can be applied to Mike Karney, and other players that come here through FA.
    Not quite. Age, injury, and scheme are non-factors for Gullickson. But all three affect the players. All 3 examples you have given are players that have to deal with those 3 concepts. The S&C coach does not. Now here's one to help you out: The S&C coach doesn't have to deal with the effects of age, injury, and scheme, BUT he has to deal with players that deal with age, injury, and scheme. Maybe in this matter he has not been effective? It's a thought.
    By the way, I don't put too much credibility in the S&C Coach of the Year Award. I feel like that can't accurately be judged or measured.
    And that's certainly you're prerogative; but the NFL apparently disagrees with you.

    And if that can't be accurately judged or measured, then why are people questioning Gullickson as a coach. By your standard, aren't they all the same?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  3. #33
    Azul e Oro is offline Registered User
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinRam View Post
    Oh don't get me wrong, I am not making the correlation that Gullickson = more injuries. Although a S&C coach does factor in somewhat to preventing injuries, ultimately it comes down to how injury prone each player is, and luck.


    But see, with the logic you use with Gullickson and how he was a great S&C coach before, and couldn't have magically become a bad one since coming to St. Louis, that same logic can be applied to Mike Karney, and other players that come here through FA.


    Mike Karney was considered a very tough, blue-collared fullback when with the Saints. He couldn't have magically gotten weaker and less effective since coming to St. Louis.

    Jason Brown arrived in 2009. Before with the Ravens, he was considered one of the best maulers in the guard and center position. Since coming here, he has looked weak and sluggish and overmatched.

    Jacob Bell arrive in 2008, and his first year here was pretty decent. However, he has declined since then, and is consistently looking weak.


    By the way, I don't put too much credibility in the S&C Coach of the Year Award. I feel like that can't accurately be judged or measured.
    I think the real answer is right there in those three players' stories. These guys were juiced- probably HGH. They got busted by the trainers ( hence the "snitching/backstabbing" tweet from Ryan) &, in Karney & Ryan's case at least, it ended their careers.

    The only thing that surprises me is that Fisher retained staff that wouldn't look the other way as it seems most NFL teams do. Can't find the article at the moment but I remember reading on espn that it's estimated that 40% of NFL players are using HGH. It's particularly common among those who have head trauma since that reduces the natural production of HGH and testosterone which help the body recover from injury & build lean body muscle.

    Didn't Bell have trouble maintaining his weight & have a concussion problem, among other injuries?

    Didn't Karney have a "neck" injury ? Certainly a FB would be exposed to a high risk of head trauma even by NFL standards & the pituitary gland which produces HGH is located at the base of the skull..

    Wasn't it weird that Ryan, seemingly all of a sudden, was debilitated by "migraine-like" symptoms?
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -02-18-2012 at 02:53 PM.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    I don't know what to say other than our injuries have been horrible the last 3 seasons and alot of that DOES have to do with S&C... I wouldn't have a clue if this guy and his staff are good or not at preparing our players but I am kinda leaning to the side that he needs to go... bRING IN RICHARD SIMMONS

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    I don't know what to say other than our injuries have been horrible the last 3 seasons and alot of that DOES have to do with S&C...
    ---sigh---

    Rock Gullickson weighs as much as a duck! Burn him!
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Maybe Karney and Ryan are hating on the S&C coach because they hated how much they made them work in the gym?

  7. #37
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    You guys are ALL missing the point.

    Kyle Turley is in a terrible country music band. Won't somebody please think of the children?


  8. #38
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Personally, I think the fact that he was hired by Spagnuolo is sufficient grounds for termination. The Rams must be purged of the DeSpags cronies.
    Fettmaster likes this.

  9. #39
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Very fair question, Rockin. An excellent one actually.

    It's not Rock Gullickson that I'm ultimately trying to protect, but rather the level of thought in these threads. As I've said elsewhere, it'd be intellectually lazy to say "injuries = bad S&C coach"; and unfortunately that is the exact tone of this Gullickson discussion.

    Nobody has yet mentioned the fact the Rams have had plenty of injuries for several years now, not just the past 3. How is Gullickson responsible for St. Louis Rams injuries when he was with the Green Bay Packers? How is it that Gullickson, the 2008 S&C coach of the year, has suddenly forgotten how to be an S&C coach? How is Gullickson responsible for the numerous concussions this team has suffered from?

    You see? None of those make much sense. But some folks aren't willing to go any farther than the shallow end of the pool to think about it.

    Ultimately, all we can do is trust Fisher to get the guy he wants in the weight room. Maybe it's Gullickson, maybe it's not. I don't care.

    But if we're going to discuss it, we've got to actually think as we do, and not set up cardboard foundations that equate injuries with bad S&C coach. That's reminiscent of the witch scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

    Holy Grail --- you burn witches, wood burns, wood floats, ducks float, if she weighs the same as a duck, she's a witch. Burn her!!!!

    St. Louis Rams --- we have lots of injuries, injuries happen to the body, S&C coaches work with the body. Burn him!!!!
    I feel Gullickson is as responsible for the players under his care/tutelage as any other coach working with a certain unit. The receivers weren't getting the job done? Cromwell got fired. Offensive line sucks? Bye bye Loney. Team is losing? Spags and Devaney are gone. Whether it's right or wrong, we all know that a coach is often the fall guy for a season gone bad. Coaches don't all of a sudden become stupid, and I would imagine the same can be said for Rock Gullickson. The guy didn't suddenly forget his field of expertise. But when a team cannot stay healthy or they're getting manhandled at the point of attack, it is not unreasonable to cast eyes upon the strength coach. Could the injuries have been prevented, or is it just plain bad luck? It's also just as reasonable to wonder why he was retained when every other guy on staff was let go. Is he that highly regarded?

    I agree that we simply must trust Fisher to make the right decision here. And the question remains: Why would Mike Karney say these things?
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  10. #40
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    I cant believe anyone cares about this. A couple guys who were never that great to begin with and dont even play anymore are bad talking one of their old coaches. Maybe they feel that this coach played a role in their release from the team. All I know is these guys opinions have to be taken with a grain of salt since they were both let go by the rams, and frankly this sort of tabloid dirt-sheet gossip isnt really worth discussing anyway. Im sure plenty of NFL players have clashed with their coaches over the history of time. Doesnt mean the player is wrong, doesnt mean the coach stinks. Just means they dont get along, which isnt a crime last time I checked.

  11. #41
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    It's hard to have a good discussion on this issue since we don't really know the nature of the specific complaint. Usually when people use the word cancer, it's an attitude thing more so than job performance. If Gullickson was pushing people to train in a way that would put players at higher risk of injury during training, that's a pretty serious concern. If they just didn't get along, then Karney has no business airing their dirty laundry after the fact.
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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Well said, Golden.

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by Bar-bq View Post
    You guys are ALL missing the point.

    Kyle Turley is in a terrible country music band. Won't somebody please think of the children?

    ummm is that supposed to be a rock country band or wth?

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    Re: Mike Karney rips Strength Coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Rock Gullickson weighs as much as a duck! Burn him!
    A Python syllogism? "Follow me. Follow me. I like that. That's good. A nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat, eh?"
    live4ramin likes this.

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