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  1. #1
    Nick's Avatar
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    Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    Martz's decision to go for the field goal at the end of the Carolina game was listed as number eight on the top ten dumbest moves on Fox Sports Net's new show The Sports List. Just watched it a second ago. One woman, don't know her name, was interviewed as saying something like, "You could make a Top 10 list of dumb moves all made by Mike Martz himself and people in St. Louis would be calling you up saying you missed a couple." Steve Francis of the Orlando Magic questioned whether Martz would be back this season (I guess Francis doesn't watch much football).

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  2. #2
    serkicker32 Guest

    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    that is all true but you know what we're not going to fire him for that

  3. #3
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    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    And you know what, we shouldn't fire him for that.

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    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    Yeah, no need to fire the guy, since it's an honor just to make the list. Actually, going for the FG was not the dumb move. The dumb move was running the clock down to 3 seconds and burning the last timeout, thereby leaving no time for a botched snap, and fooling the smart fans into believing that he actually knew what in the sam hell he was doing.


    :tongue:

  5. #5
    RamTime Guest

    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter
    Yeah, no need to fire the guy, since it's an honor just to make the list. Actually, going for the FG was not the dumb move. The dumb move was running the clock down to 3 seconds and burning the last timeout, thereby leaving no time for a botched snap, and fooling the smart fans into believing that he actually knew what in the sam hell he was doing.


    :tongue:
    Amen..........

  6. #6
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    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    Well at least Martz made a top ten list. :confused:

    I don't even want to go back to that memory. Playing conservative in the playoffs.... it never made sense. :disappoin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #7
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    Quote Originally Posted by UtterBlitz
    Playing conservative in the playoffs.... it never made sense. :disappoin
    [begin commentary]

    It would have made plenty of sense in hindsight had Martz taken a shot or two toward the endzone and the Panthers came up with a turnover that ended the game in regulation. I'm sure fans would have spent most of the spring screaming about Martz's aggressive playcalling once again hurting the Rams. He's basically damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If he goes for the win and doesn't get it -- all indications seem to say the Rams would have failed in the red zone based on all their prior unsuccessful red zone attempts that day -- then he's a fool for not taking the points and going for overtime. Same if he goes for it and the ball is turned over. If he kicks the field goal and plays for overtime, he's only a fool if the Rams can't win. If the Rams do win, then he's saw a weakness in his team and adjusted to it in order to do what was necessary to win.

    I think Martz's move showed confidence in his defensive unit. There was no guarantee that the Rams would win the toss, so for Martz to shoot for OT meant he felt the defense could hold the Panthers. After Kasay missed his kick in OT, the Rams defense was pretty spot on. They allowed a fairly long pass on first down, but came out with a vengence on the subsequent downs. Chased down Delhomme, Steussie had a false start, Delhomme was sacked, and then missed a pass and the Panthers had to punt. After the Rams turned the ball over (pretty deep in Carolina territory too), the Rams stopped a Foster running attempt, sacked Delhomme again, and were looking at 3rd and 14 for the Panthers from their own 31 yard line. Carolina converted a subpar 35.6% of their third down conversions -- that's in the lower portion of the league. If Sehorn stops Smith instead of whiffing on that tackle, the Rams keep the Panthers from converting and get the ball back. The offense seemed to be money in terms of moving the ball, so it's logical to think that they could have gotten back into field goal range and let Wilkins try another one.

    It would seem to me that by playing for overtime, Martz recognized a weakness in his team's redzone performance but realized they were doing enough to get Wilkins's foot into play -- they had to be considering Wilkins had four successful field goal attempts prior to his game-tying kick in the fourth quarter. To me, it would seem like Martz basically said, "Look, we haven't been able to get in the endzone all day, but we've done enough to be able to get on the board with Jeff. Let's get the points here and get the ball back in OT, then just do what we've been doing all day: drive down the field and let Jeff kick it." How many times have Rams fans harped on Martz for being too aggressive? I remember hearing complaints about Denver in 2002 when he went for it on a fourth down, in Washington in 2002, and New York in 2003 -- all losses in which he had clear opportunities to take points in order to play for a win later and didn't.

    If Sehorn makes that tackle and the Rams get the ball back and kick a winning field goal, I don't think anyone complains about Martz going for the win in OT rather than risking an outcome earlier. Rather, since Sehorn whiffed on the tackle and the Rams lost, everyone's question is why didn't the Rams go for the win in regulation and avoid overtime altogether. The bottom line is since it didn't work, Martz becomes the scapegoat. I know Martz later admitted in an interview that he should have taken a shot, but I think that's more hindsight pressuring him than anything else. At the time, reviewing the information of the game, I think his choice made a lot of sense.

    I dunno, that's just my take on it. I tend to blame Sehorn more than I do Martz. 3rd and 14 from your own 30-yard line. You have to be expecting a pass. That should have been stopped. That doesn't even begin to cover the poor run defense earlier in the game.

    [end commentary]
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  8. #8
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    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    Nick, watch it. You are bringing logic and lucid thinking into Clanram.....

  9. #9
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    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    Nick, for the most part, I agree with you. But you make it sound like no one was confused and frustrated about that call at the time it happened. Trust me, I was watching the game at home, by myself. I was screaming WTF? to the TV right at the point that I saw Marshall and company march down the field, get in range and with 30 odd seconds left, MB walking off the field as time was running down. One more play. Hand off to Marshall. Doesn't work, take the field goal.

    After the OT break, back watching the game and felt better after the D held them and they missed the kick (D didn't completely hold them, but made it a long kick). But then our team just didn't seem to be firing like they had in the fourth.

    To me it seems like calling that the way he did took the steam out of the O. Maybe that is more perception than fact. Maybe they were tired. Maybe C's D stepped up in OT. But that is what it looked like to me.

    Momentum was clearly on the RAMS side. When you have it, you step on the gas, not the brake.
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  10. #10
    moklerman Guest

    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    There's a lotta "if's" and "woulda, coulda, shoulda's" flying around. The main criticism I have of Martz in this situation is that he wasn't true to his nature. We all know what Martz wanted to do in that situation.

    It all boils down to the fact that it wasn't a Martz call, nor a sound football call in general. It was just a gutless call. On top of that, a poorly managed gutless call. Either that, or Martz had ZERO confidence in the offense and ultimate confidence in the field goal unit. He was so concerned about the protection that he let's time run out and goes for the tie, but has so much confidence in the field goal blocking that he doesn't allow for a botched snap, bad hold, etc.?

    I also don't see how Martz could be so confident in the defense to hold the Panthers if they had already racked up about 200 yards rushing? No there are too many holes and contradictions for me to go along with the idea that Martz made an educated decision.

  11. #11
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    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    Like anything ... these are just rationalizations ... with 3 sides to the story ... yours, mine, and the truth. So many ways to dissect each and every call, non-call, read, lack of read. I have to lean towards believing that that elusive quality called Big-mo is an intangible that can't be rationally explained but has to be intuitively respected. The Rams had it at the end of the game ... and should have tried to exploit it as long as it was demonstrably on their side ... you just HAVE TO go for the endzone at least once ... yeah, yeah , yeah ... it could have been this that or the other thing ... but just as easily it could have been a TD.

    It was not a calculated decision at the end but an impulse. sMartz had no script that said we get close we try for tie instead of win. I'll insist he suffered from a brain cramp in those last 30 seconds ... he lacked all confidence in pulling two plays together depending on scenarios and outcomes and how to manage the time. From a devil-may-care attitude to a devil-will-curse-us one sMartz' image will never be the same.

  12. #12
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    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    When it comes to down to some split-second, spur-of-the-moment, high-pressure decision, one (including Martz) does not go through a highly analytical thought process. One manages a quick response dictated by a single prevailing thought. In this case, I believe Martz prevailing thought was "What if Marc throws a pick". Maybe he would or maybe he would throw a TD, who's to say? Martz' call was an (even if temporary) indicator of his lack of confidence in some aspect of the offense - Bulger, line, Faulk, WRs - take your pick.

    Should he have gone for it, again who's to say? Since we lost in OT, the majority will say yes. Had we lost in regulation, the same majority would say no. But regardless, a coach has to show a little heart, which burning nearly a minute to go for the tie does not do.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  13. #13
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    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    Should he have gone for it, again who's to say?
    Well, in all actuality, Martz. In an interview with Dr. Z posted numerous times by Ferter, Martz admitted that because the Panther defense was reeling and his offense was rolling, he should have tried a few runs with Marshall Faulk.

    Once again, here is the Martz quote: “I should have run it in.” he said. “Your right, they were tired. Negative thinking.” And he shook his head…….

  14. #14
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike
    Well, in all actuality, Martz. In an interview with Dr. Z posted numerous times by Ferter, Martz admitted that because the Panther defense was reeling and his offense was rolling, he should have tried a few runs with Marshall Faulk.

    Once again, here is the Martz quote: “I should have run it in.” he said. “Your right, they were tired. Negative thinking.” And he shook his head…….
    Good point, Mike.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  15. #15
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    Re: Mike Martz #8 on FSN's Top 10 Dumbest Moments

    Well good, that means he's learned from his mistake. Good deal.

    How many of you really learn from your mistakes?

    I wonder.

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