View Poll Results: Assume these are the only possible future outcomes, and choose!

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  • Keep the Rams in St. Louis; doing so will result in at least 10 years of mediocrity.

    15 18.07%
  • Allow the Rams to move to Los Angeles; doing so will mean a Super Bowl win w/in 10 years.

    68 81.93%
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Thread: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

  1. #31
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by gap View Post
    As Hub stated so well, the vote is flawed. For that reason I haven't voted yet. In it's current state, I would have to be a part of the 20%. Mediocrity is much better than we are now, and we could have had several post season runs with just mediocrity. As a sports fan, I would rather have several seasons of post season play than only one season of post season that results in a SB win.

    Plus, with a move back to LA, it is only a matter of time before they move again. LA has shown that they will not support a team that can only be mediocure at best. STL has shown that it will support a mediocure team, and will enthusiastically support a winner. This means the RAMS are more stable in STL than they are in LA.


    gap
    Agree about the vote thing. Silly if you ask me. But the comment you made at the end is incorrect. You said LA won't support a mediocre team, but that Stl will support a mediocre team and enthusiastically support a winner. So LA won't enthusiastically support a winner? You don't think LA supports the Angels, Dodgers, Kings, Ducks, Lakers or Clippers? Really? Better check the yearly attendance records of each team against the rest of the leagues. ...and some of those teams have been less than mediocre at times. As with the Rams, when they were winning and before Georgia drove them into the ground, they were well supported. Even in crappy stadiums like the Coliseum which was designed for track and field, and Anaheim stadium which at the time was a converted baseball stadium. Each was worse than the ED, but attendance was very good until the Georgia debacle. LA WILL support and DID support the Rams when they were in LA, it wasn't until Georgia took control and made the Rams the joke that they were (and continued to be throughout her tenure despite the SB win) did things unravel. People need to stop with the LA won't support thing, it's simply not true. They need to also look at the history of Stl and football. The story there is actually quite the same. Bad owner, bad teams, need new stadium = move. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? ...and it's happening again. Only this time, the ownership has changed and provided a possibility of a stay of execution. ..unless bonehead moves like the London contract have the effect I think they will.

    Faithful Rams fan since 1968

  2. #32
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    B....................Plain and simple!

  3. #33
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    The option that gets you the ring that some teams have yet to see.

  4. #34
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by gap View Post
    As Hub stated so well, the vote is flawed. For that reason I haven't voted yet. In it's current state, I would have to be a part of the 20%. Mediocrity is much better than we are now, and we could have had several post season runs with just mediocrity. As a sports fan, I would rather have several seasons of post season play than only one season of post season that results in a SB win.

    Plus, with a move back to LA, it is only a matter of time before they move again. LA has shown that they will not support a team that can only be mediocure at best. STL has shown that it will support a mediocure team, and will enthusiastically support a winner. This means the RAMS are more stable in STL than they are in LA.


    gap
    A SuperBowl victory is the pinnacle of the sport, and the main reason why the players go to work each morning. I just found it a bit strange, that people would overlook this.? I do understand the difficulties with the poll Gap, and have taken all your points on board.

  5. #35
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    Guess the poll was not all that divisive!

    I wonder how this would play out in a city like Green Bay, Philadelphia or Miami. I'm guessing they'd mortgage at least some of their teams' future to keep the team from leaving.

  6. #36
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Guess the poll was not all that divisive!

    I wonder how this would play out in a city like Green Bay, Philadelphia or Miami. I'm guessing they'd mortgage at least some of their teams' future to keep the team from leaving.
    Reverse the options and see what happens.
    Fettmaster likes this.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    This poll raises an interesting philosophical question on the matter of team loyalty- does a fan's loyalty belong to a team or a city?

    I've always been in the latter camp. I grew up in Saint Louis, and though I live in Florida now being a Ram's fan is more than liking the helmets they wear or the players that put on the jersey. I am a Ram's fan because the culture of St. Louis has a place of permanence in my heart, and though I live there no longer I can live out my sense of loyalty to the city by rooting for the rams. If they were to move to LA, that would be removed, and I would likely no longer be a fan.

    I understand that those who have never lived in Saint Louis might not agree, and that's fine. But what makes me a fan of the Rams is not some love of Stan Kroenke of Sam Bradford or the team colors. It's what those colors represent- when I see the Rams win a football game (a rare occurance these days) I don't think "the team wearing blue and gold won" but rather "saint louis won." That's the important thing.

    And thus I am forced to be in the minority and vote for option A. I want St. Louis to have the rams even if they mired in mediocrity. Any thoughts on this? How do the rest of you articulate what it means to be a Rams fan?

  8. #38
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukebailey View Post
    This poll raises an interesting philosophical question on the matter of team loyalty- does a fan's loyalty belong to a team or a city?

    I've always been in the latter camp. I grew up in Saint Louis, and though I live in Florida now being a Ram's fan is more than liking the helmets they wear or the players that put on the jersey. I am a Ram's fan because the culture of St. Louis has a place of permanence in my heart, and though I live there no longer I can live out my sense of loyalty to the city by rooting for the rams. If they were to move to LA, that would be removed, and I would likely no longer be a fan.

    I understand that those who have never lived in Saint Louis might not agree, and that's fine. But what makes me a fan of the Rams is not some love of Stan Kroenke of Sam Bradford or the team colors. It's what those colors represent- when I see the Rams win a football game (a rare occurance these days) I don't think "the team wearing blue and gold won" but rather "saint louis won." That's the important thing.

    And thus I am forced to be in the minority and vote for option A. I want St. Louis to have the rams even if they mired in mediocrity. Any thoughts on this? How do the rest of you articulate what it means to be a Rams fan?
    I couldn't disagree more whole heartedly. As I said earlier;

    Football history is made by the team not the town.

    The key word here is .....'Rams'

    Cleveland, Los Angeles, St. Louis, or the seaside. I'll support them any time, any place, anywhere, and not just because of where their stadium is)

  9. #39
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukebailey View Post
    This poll raises an interesting philosophical question on the matter of team loyalty- does a fan's loyalty belong to a team or a city?

    I've always been in the latter camp. I grew up in Saint Louis, and though I live in Florida now being a Ram's fan is more than liking the helmets they wear or the players that put on the jersey. I am a Ram's fan because the culture of St. Louis has a place of permanence in my heart, and though I live there no longer I can live out my sense of loyalty to the city by rooting for the rams. If they were to move to LA, that would be removed, and I would likely no longer be a fan.

    I understand that those who have never lived in Saint Louis might not agree, and that's fine. But what makes me a fan of the Rams is not some love of Stan Kroenke of Sam Bradford or the team colors. It's what those colors represent- when I see the Rams win a football game (a rare occurance these days) I don't think "the team wearing blue and gold won" but rather "saint louis won." That's the important thing.

    And thus I am forced to be in the minority and vote for option A. I want St. Louis to have the rams even if they mired in mediocrity. Any thoughts on this? How do the rest of you articulate what it means to be a Rams fan?
    I was a Rams fan when they were in L.A. they moved to St. Louis that doesnt give them a more loyal fan base. This is a confusing point, They only have been in St. Louis for 17 years they were in L.A. longer so they belong to St. Louis? nah if the fans there wanted them to stay they would have supported them more, after last season they still had trouble selling out this year. That city will always be a baseball city first and that is the problem.

  10. #40
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    I think the question would be better worded somewhere along the lines of rams are in the city you want, but suffer ten years of mediocrity vs rams are in city you don't want but win superbowl. the la fans had a natural and easy choice, it skews the vote to one side easily. You really only gave st.louis fans a hard choice, not really a fair poll in that sense.

  11. #41
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukebailey View Post
    This poll raises an interesting philosophical question on the matter of team loyalty- does a fan's loyalty belong to a team or a city?

    I've always been in the latter camp. I grew up in Saint Louis, and though I live in Florida now being a Ram's fan is more than liking the helmets they wear or the players that put on the jersey. I am a Ram's fan because the culture of St. Louis has a place of permanence in my heart, and though I live there no longer I can live out my sense of loyalty to the city by rooting for the rams. If they were to move to LA, that would be removed, and I would likely no longer be a fan.

    I understand that those who have never lived in Saint Louis might not agree, and that's fine. But what makes me a fan of the Rams is not some love of Stan Kroenke of Sam Bradford or the team colors. It's what those colors represent- when I see the Rams win a football game (a rare occurance these days) I don't think "the team wearing blue and gold won" but rather "saint louis won." That's the important thing.

    And thus I am forced to be in the minority and vote for option A. I want St. Louis to have the rams even if they mired in mediocrity. Any thoughts on this? How do the rest of you articulate what it means to be a Rams fan?
    Who am I to say whats right, but to me, you clearly love St. Louis, and not the Rams. And that's fine, you're still also a fan, but I would call you more of a St. Louis football fan.

    I do have to disagree about what you say about what the blue and gold represent, however. They represent the Rams.

    To me, being a Rams fan is simple. You're always a Rams fan. That's it. I don't care where they play.
    St. Louis is a great sports city with incredible passionate fans. I'm also a Cardinals fan and always will be. And the glitz, glamor, and Hollywood appeal Los Angeles brings to the fans and players is irrefutable.

    But I am a Rams fan, and I want whats best for the Rams. If that means its the Rams going back to Cali, then meet me on the LAX, flight 504.

    Like Hubison said though, if the roles were reversed I'd rather the Rams stay in St. Louis and win another Super Bowl in the next decade than have the Rams go back to LA and continue to suck.
    Last edited by Fettmaster; -01-25-2012 at 10:26 PM.

  12. #42
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    You could also remove the towns completely from the question:

    Option A - 10 years of mediocre
    Option B - 1 SB ring, 9 years of suck

    I still choose "A".
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  13. #43
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang View Post
    I'd rather that the team was resident in a community that viewed the team as 'theirs' and turned up in their thousands to fill the home stadium win or lose. In the UK, whilst we're used to the wild vagaries of sporting fortune, because the team has a community identity, that's what we're used to and the whole concept of moving a 'franchise' is anathema.

    Consequently, I have no sympathy at all for St Louis residents who demand that the Rams become a winner before they turn up and feel that if St Louis ends up losing the Rams, its because they didn't want them enough to not have them.

    I started supporting the Rams in 1980 when they were in L.A and would largely favour a move 'home' (I haven't forgotten Cleveland) for that reason and because I'd like to think that the Rams would fill more seats there. St Louis seems to me to be a largely baseball town that views the Rams as an off-season pastime that's an entertainment as long as they're winning and if it isn't, well that's an excuse for local journo's to excuse the swathes of empty seats and road game atmosphere at the Ed.

    Chicken and egg, you want the Rams to play better at home, turn up and support them. Want to keep the team? Show Stan you're not fair-weather and you're in it for the long-term, just like you're asking him to be.

    I've tended to stay out of the whole "Rams to LA" thing and give St Louis the benefit of the doubt but every season I spend $200 a season for gamepass and see sections of red seats without fans posteriors on them (and mine would be one if I lived in the continental US) I see no reason why Stan shouldn't entertain a move.

    And if you guaranteed him and us and Jeff Fisher a decent Stadium and SB if he did, I'm sure he'd consider it.

    I would.

    I did and voted yes.

    This is what I would say If I had Fat Pang skillzz. This sums up how I feel. I really liked it when the Rams had a real fan base in St. Louis. I was in the stands in Anaheim the last few years when we had no support. Now in St.Louis it is starting to look a lot like the last days of Anaheim.

  14. #44
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    You could also remove the towns completely from the question:

    Option A - 10 years of mediocre
    Option B - 1 SB ring, 9 years of suck

    I still choose "A".
    If by "mediocre", you mean the team never makes the playoffs, I'd gladly take option B.

    My contention is, if you're not a playoff team, you may as well "suck" anyway.
    Fettmaster likes this.

  15. #45
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    Re: The most provocative, divisive and controversial poll question ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukebailey View Post
    I am a Ram's fan because the culture of St. Louis has a place of permanence in my heart, and though I live there no longer I can live out my sense of loyalty to the city by rooting for the rams. If they were to move to LA, that would be removed, and I would likely no longer be a fan.
    I guess that explains why you are not AZ Cards fan!

    Also double standard here. Luke can move, but Rams can't. Am I missing something here?
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