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  1. #16
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Quote Originally Posted by dgr828 View Post
    official nfl passer rating

    1. Phillip rivers - 108.5

    2. Tony romo - 103.5

    3. Kurt waner - 102.8

    4. Trent edwards - 98.8

    5. Aaron rodgers - 98.5



    22. Marc bulger - 79.5 (regotdamdiculous!)

    23. Raider's qb - 78.5
    Didnt you say in another thread that the biggest difference between Bulger and Cassel was the Win, LOL. Hmmm....But the Chargers have one more win than the Rams. You forgot Peyton Manning at 80, rediculous Bulger hater stats are for kids.

    Just Fix It

  2. #17
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    rediculous Bulger hater stats are for kids.
    I completely Agree.

  3. #18
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    Didnt you say in another thread that the biggest difference between Bulger and Cassel was the Win, LOL. Hmmm....But the Chargers have one more win than the Rams. You forgot Peyton Manning at 80, rediculous Bulger hater stats are for kids.
    No hate for Bulger here, but he will be called out when it's just deserved! No perfect time than the present! We win that game with leadership today. Making the right plays at the right times wins that ball game today. Bulger is supposed to be a season veteran, paid to produce, against a 3rd string QB, who out shined him today! BE A LEADER, MARC! GET THE W!
    DON'T HATE THE PLAYER, BUT I DO HATE HIS GAME, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT!!! Don't pacify this guy, give him a boot in his seat spot to get him going!
    Don't compare him with others, keep the focus squarely on him.
    79.5 passer rating flat out sucks! It's RE~GOT~DAM~DICULOUS! 4 REAL!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #19
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    I'm not going to play the "hater" thing here, unless we start talking about the Raiders....

    But I will say that this was a game the Rams SHOULD have won. It was a moment in time when Bulger could have made a statement.

    But he didn't.

    There were so many missed opportunities that Marc didn't capitalize on. ...and it wasn't all about line protection. There were times in this game when Marc clearly threw before he needed to. A couple to Holt come to mind. As I stated in another thread, Marc didn't lose this game, but he didn't win it either. ...and this was a game the great ones win.

    Turnovers, going for it on 4th down inside our own 50, the onside kick recovered, and nothing more than a couple of FG's to show for it? That game was there for the taking, but Bulger's mechanics went south as soon as he got hit a couple of times. In the first quarter he threw a strike to Avery (I'm not talking about the long td) that was incredibly accurate, but later in the game, he started throwing off his back foot again and rushing his throws.

    Marc is servicable, but when a game is on the line, I'm not sure he's got what it takes anymore. His skills have dimished IMHO. I think the Rams need to start thinking about going in a different direction in the draft, and probably sooner than later. He's our guy right now, but the Rams will not get much better until he starts producing and becomes more consistent.
    Faithful Rams fan since 1968

  5. #20
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    You are on here with every loss banging on Bulger. Didnt hear much from you last week when we won. No one that is a fan of Bulger thinks he is perfect or that he has no fault this is a TEAM game. Yet most Bulger haters just want to point to him and act like no matter what other qb you put back there they would produce. The whole team deserves to be blamed not Bulger. All of you screaming for him to throw the ball away, when should he do that? He has to be out of the pocket which he hardly ever is. He has to have time to throw it away which he hardly ever does. Can you people see whats going on in the secondary because most of you seem to know what he is looking at. It just seems funny to me that all you Bulger haters just want to blame him and not acknowledge the short comings of the rest of the team. Sure I agree he made some bad throws today when he had time. I also seen him make some good throws when he was pressured and take a shot right after he let go too. The throw to Burton over the middle was incredible under pressure. I saw him throw a pass to Pittman that looked dreadful in the flat but after second glance that play was going no where. I bet if he had completed it and Pittman would have lost 4 yds Pearson and the Bulger haters would have bashed him for that. Seymor and Wilfork were in his face all day, probably the worst thing for a pocket passer is pressure right up the gut yet play after play there they were. Yet you super knowledgeable Bulger haters are screaming at him to throw the ball away, LOL. The guy isnt perfect and can only play as good as his protection. Cassell had great protection today if only Bulger would be afforded that kind of blocking. It's never acknowledged when he doesnt get good blocking. Then again just like last week with a huge win not one remark about how bad Bulger is. It's all Warners fault Arizona lost today. Even though James fumbled Warner should have had better vision and not let that ball get tipped in the red zone. Team games are won by teams not individuals. Great qb's dont throw passes to themselves and they sure the hell arent blocking for themselves. No Bulger isnt playing great but he also isnt causing this team to lose.

    How does Peyton Manning and the Colts look this year? Manning has a rating of 80 and Bulger is at 79. Did Manning just start sucking all of the sudden or did his surrounding cast get worse? We are talking about a guy with a career Passer rating of 94. Did he just all of the sudden come to play and lose his talent? What excuse is there for Manning? I'm sure Manning would be playing better if his surrounding cast was playing better dont you? So if Manning is the benchmark and he is struggling shouldnt Bulger be afforded the same? You can only perform as good as your supporting cast and right now Bulger doesnt have a great supporting cast and neither does Manning.

    By the Way if Rivers is so great why arent the Chargers 7-1 instead of 3-5??? Hmm....what excuse is there for Rivers?

    First, let me say that I call it like I see it. I bang on Bulger and any other player when I think they deserve to be banged on. And that will never stop. Unlike some, I will hold him accountable when he doesn't play well or when I believe he's not getting his fair share of the blame.

    Conversely, I will give props when they are earned. So if there is anybody here who thinks I'm a Bulger-hater, they are wrong.

    I supported the change in favor of Marc Bulger when he took over for Kurt Warner. I believe that Marc at that time, gave us the best chance to win, and he proved that once he got his chance. But even then I realized his limitations. At the top of that list, his lack of mobility, which bites him everytime out.

    It's natural to think that the O-Line must not be blocking when the sacks begin to mount, but if you look deeper as I do, you'll realize that it's not always their fault. But not many people on this board will point that out. So I do. There are countless things that Marc Bulger could do or do better throughout the course of a game. You'd have to be blind not to see that in my opinion.

    There are many on this board who are reluctant to blame Marc Bulger for anything. So I have taken it upon myself to hold him accountable. Like it or not.

    I won't get into reasons why Peyton Manning and Phillip Rivers are performing the way they are, because I really couldn't care less. Neither is a concern of mine, but Marc Bulger is.

    And with all the apologists on this board, I guess we'll combine to cover this guy from all angles.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -10-27-2008 at 02:40 AM.

  6. #21
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Sometimes the truth hurts!
    The truth today is Bulger had the 3 opertunitys in the 4th quarter to win this game and he did not come through!
    I thought he was doing ok for 3 quarters and just lost (it) what ever (it) is in the 4th quater!
    He had plentey of time to make plays and just blew it!
    the team as a hole kept making mistakes all though the game to keep the pats in the game.
    This is a game we had the opertunity to put a way and didn't!
    when you are away you have to take advantage of every break you get or your going to lose to a good team and thats what happend!

  7. #22
    Fortuninerhater's Avatar
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonJoe View Post
    I would not agree to: Favre and McNabb (washed up), Romo (never will be), Garrard(7th year in the league, 2nd as a starter? Huh?), Cutler got knocked out of the game against the Hatriots then the Bronco's lost 41-7.

    I aint buying those QB's, how about 5 more?
    I doubt you'll get anyone in a Ram uniform to agree with you about McNabb.

    Brett Favre had more TD passes in one game than Bulger has this season.

    Tony Romo is a much better QB than Marc Bulger if for no other reason than he can make plays with his feet. With their arms, I'll call it a wash and that's giving Bulger the benefit of the doubt.

    Even at this early stage, Jay Cutler is no worse than a wash with Marc Bulger. And with his youth, he gets the nod between the two.

    David Garrard is one of the toughest, and more under rated QBs in the league. I invite you to watch him play sometime and then give me your assessment.

    I'll be happy to give you a few more though since none of those five impressed you. At this point I'd have to rank Kurt Warner ahead of him, Trent Edwards outplayed Marc a few weeks ago, Matt Ryan, even in his rookie campaign, has looked better than Marc Bulger has this season.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -10-27-2008 at 03:09 AM.

  8. #23
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Speaking in realities, Bulger will continue to be our quarterback because 1. He is a good (not great) quarterback if given enough time to find his receivers; 2. His contract; 3. We don't have anyone better to replace him.

    By the way, can we let go of the "back to pro bowl form" references with Bulger? Bulger making the pro bowl was more the product of the talent around him than his play and leadership. In my mind, to be considered a perennial pro bowl quarterback, you can't be consistantly referred to as "one of the underappreciated" quarterbacks in the league (kind of like he ain't pretty, but he has a nice personality). Bulger has never delivered the "wow" factor that your perennial pro bowl quarterbacks normally elicit.

    Now, does that mean we sit pat with this guy for the foreseeable future? NO. While we do need to address our offensive line this coming off season, we cannot ignore the fact that we need to obtain our quarterback of the future this off season as well.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #24
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    I doubt you'll get anyone in a Ram uniform to agree with you about McNabb.

    Brett Favre had more TD passes in one game than Bulger has this season.

    Tony Romo is a much better QB than Marc Bulger if for no other reason than he can make plays with his feet. With their arms, I'll call it a wash and that's giving Bulger the benefit of the doubt.

    Even at this early stage, Jay Cutler is no worse than a wash with Marc Bulger. And with his youth, he gets the nod between the two.

    David Garrard is one of the toughest, and more under rated QBs in the league. I invite you to watch him play sometime and then give me your assessment.

    I'll be happy to give you a few more though since none of those five impressed you. At this point I'd have to rank Kurt Warner ahead of him, Trent Edwards outplayed Marc a few weeks ago, Matt Ryan, even in his rookie campaign, has looked better than Marc Bulger has this season.
    Really? Trent Edwards outplayer Bulger a few weeks ago? Last time I watched that game, Trent Green started it and finished it ....

  10. #25
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    Really? Trent Edwards outplayer Bulger a few weeks ago? Last time I watched that game, Trent Green started it and finished it ....
    That's why he outplayed him.

    No seriously I forgot about that, but my point was Trent Edwards looked like I wish Marc Bulger would look every week, particularly in the second half.

    Thanks for keeping me honest.

  11. #26
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    So much to respond to, so little time. Thankfully I didn't get called in to work today.

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    Back up your point, rather than making sweeping statements about his shortcomings, which we all admit he has. NO qb can win on his own, they all need protection, receivers, a running game etc.
    What an important way to start, and something that deserved to be highlighted.

    The claim that you'll see from many Bulger critics - and of course it's repeated in this thread - is that somehow there are fans out there who don't want to hold him accountable for anything, that apparently think he's playing perfect football. Not only do such fans not exist, but I suspect those making such claims know as much.

    It's a rather disappointing and distracting argument from the real debate - how much responsibility falls on the shoulders of one player. No one is saying Bulger is playing perfect football, no one thinks he doesn't have areas where he can improve, no one thinks he's not making mistakes out there. NO ONE. Emphasis added with the hopes that it'll finally get through. Because the sooner people can acknowledge this basic premise, the sooner we can actually all have an honest debate about this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    How do you think cassell would have looked behind our offensive line today? How does carson palmer look without pass protection this year?
    Great point. People like to bring up Jay Cutler or the Mannings or Drew Brees as some of today's best quarterbacks in the NFL. Does anyone realize how many times those guys get sacked compared to Bulger?

    Eli has been sacked this year on average once every 37 pass attempts. His brother Petyon, who's having a down year by the way? Once every 24 attempts on average. Drew Brees? Once per 43 pass attempts. The young gun Jay Cutler? Sacked on average once every 63.5 pass attempts! 63!!!!

    What's Bulger's number? Once every 7.5 attempts.

    It's a pathetic difference. And no, it's not all on the offensive line. But you're kidding yourself if a large part of it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris58 View Post
    All things being equal, I could name 10 maybe more QBs better than Marc Bulger. But that's not the point. Anyone who says Bulger lost the game today is missing the point that football is a team sport where one player alone does not win games, especially in the NFL.

    One play does not result in a loss. There are 60-some offensive plays per game. If you pick one INT and say that's why we lost, why not pick one running play in the red zone that was stuffed and say we lost because Incognito or some other lineman didn't block his assignment??

    Marc is good enough to win in the NFL. We need more players to step up and play winning football.
    Great post, Chris!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    I don't give a hoot about the creative excuses fans are coming up with these days. OMG - Someone mentioned Holt as an excuse. Does bulger progress through his reads enough to ever find Holt? Typically bulger keys on one receiver from start to finish of every passing play.
    No one mentioned Holt "as an excuse." But I thought the reason Bulger critics continue to hammer on him is because they feel obligated to hold people responsible for their play, no?

    Does that somehow not apply to Torry Holt as well? Do you not think Torry Holt should be held responsible for what was a rather poor game in Washington and virtually being a non-factor against Dallas and New England? This is Torry "Big Game" Holt, a guy who has consistently been a top receiver in this league. Is anyone starting threads asking if Holt is worth his big contract? I must have missed all of those topics.

    You ask if Bulger ever progresses through his reads enough to find Holt. Holt is supposed to be this team's #1 receiver. How many progressions do you think a QB typically makes before getting to his #1 receiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by jkramsfan View Post
    I am one of those who thinks Bulger can play better
    I would contend most if not all Rams fans agree that Bulger can play better, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    All of you screaming for him to throw the ball away, when should he do that? He has to be out of the pocket which he hardly ever is. He has to have time to throw it away which he hardly ever does.
    What a great point, and what's interesting is that I recall at least three specific occasions in this game when Bulger did throw the ball away rather than take a sack or force it into coverage.

    What I think we have to consider is that, should Bulger draw the ball back and attempt to throw a ball away in some of those pressure situations, he risks getting it stripped and creating a turnover for the other team. Sometimes it's better to take a sack than expose the ball for a possible strip.

    Did anyone see the Georgia Tech/Clemson game from a week or so ago? The first score of the game was a Clemson WR reverse where the receiver pulled back to throw the ball rather than take a loss. He underthrew the pass into a field of GT players and it was returned for a touchdown. Sometimes when the protection breaks down, the best thing to do is to throw it away.

    But sometimes the best thing to do is to protect the ball and take a negative yardage play rather than risk a possible turnover. It's a fine line QBs have to walk, and it's one they have to make in a split second based on everything that's happening around them. Not from the comfort of their recliner or seat at the bar in front of the big screen. Not excusing it, just pointing out the circumstances.

    If Bulger is going to throw away passes when the protection breaks down, then we have to be willing to sacrifice plays like the one he made nine minutes into the Dallas game where he scrambled to the right after the pocket collapsed and found Holt crossing the field for 19 yards. If he throws that ball away, maybe we don't score on our second drive and Dallas gets the ball back with some momentum. Who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgr828 View Post
    Official NFL passer rating

    1. Phillip Rivers - 108.5

    2. Tony Romo - 103.5

    3. Kurt Warner - 102.8

    4. Trent Edwards - 98.8

    5. Aaron Rodgers - 98.5



    22. Marc Bulger - 79.5 (Regotdamdiculous!)

    23. Raider's QB - 78.5
    Quote Originally Posted by dgr828 View Post
    Don't compare him with others
    I'll let the contradiction speak for itself, but you left a couple big names off...

    Peyton Manning: 80.0
    Carson Palmer: 69.0
    Derek Anderson: 67.1
    Matt Hasselbeck: 57.7

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMFANRAIDERHATER View Post
    There were so many missed opportunities that Marc didn't capitalize on.
    Did the rest of the team do everything to capitalize on those opportunities? If not, why is Marc being singled out for the offense's failures in that regard?


    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Certain people don't "point out" certain things like Bulger's perfect pass to Avery for the same reason you gave Matt Cassell no credit for any tough throws today. Because there's really nothing special about it, is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Conversely, I will give props when they are earned.
    I'm having a hard time reconciling these two statements.

    Anyways, it strikes me as pretty special when our QB completes a career-long pass to our young rookie WR, because it means we've found a weapon that's capable of opening this offense up in a way we've been missing and desperately need.

    It seems simple, to me at least - point out the good and the bad. Expecting people to go out and make plays doesn't make it any less rewarding and noteworthy when they actually do it. Especially for a team with five wins over the last two seasons. Part of holding someone accountable for their actions means not only holding them responsible for their mistakes but also acknowledging when those actions result in success.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    My simple arguement is how you can simply dismiss any blame for Marc Bulger yet blame everybody else week in and week out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Unlike some, I will hold him accountable when he doesn't play well or when I believe he's not getting his fair share of the blame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    There are many on this board who are reluctant to blame Marc Bulger for anything.
    No one is dismissing Bulger of any or all blame. GC even started his post by saying how we all recognize Bulger has shortcomings. Enough with the straw man arguments please - they bring nothing to the debate and serve no other purpose than to mischaracterize the other side into sounding unreasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    It's natural to think that the O-Line must not be blocking when the sacks begin to mount, but if you look deeper as I do, you'll realize that it's not always their fault.
    No one is claiming it's always their fault. But Marc Bulger has been the most sacked QB in the NFL since 2003. I hope we can agree that the shortcomings on the offensive line throughout the years shoulder the majority of the blame for that stat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Tony Romo is a much better QB than Marc Bulger if for no other reason than he can make plays with his feet.
    Yet Bulger has a better yards per carry average than Romo this season. Their career yards per carry average is not significantly different. Romo has a long rush this season of seven yards, Bulger has a long rush of nine yards. Recall that against Washington, Bulger had I believe a 13 yard run called back because of penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    Bulger making the pro bowl was more the product of the talent around him than his play and leadership.
    Interesting way of phrasing it, BRM. If Bulger's successes were the product of the talent around him rather than his play and leadership, wouldn't his failures also be a product of the talent around him?
    Last edited by Nick; -10-27-2008 at 10:31 AM.

  12. #27
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    A number of people are bashing bulger again. Back up your point, rather than making sweeping statements about his shortcomings, which we all admit he has. NO qb can win on his own, they all need protection, receivers, a running game etc.

    For people that think bulger is the problem, name me ten qb's that are better than bulger. Make sure you factor in quality of offensive line, receivers and running game. How do you think cassell would have looked behind our offensive line today? How does carson palmer look without pass protection this year?

    A qb is NOT a superman no matter how much money you pay him. Why does matt ryan look so good as a rookie? Answer. Offensive line play and his running game. how do you think ryan would look behind the rams offensive line.

    Look at cassell. Makes some nice throws, but did he make a single quality throw today under pressure? If he did, i must have missed it because he spent the entire day all alone in the pocket getting quality snaps from center and an ability to step up in the pocket and hit open receivers. Bulger almost never has that luxery. Of course on the long td to avery, he had great protection and he threw a perfect strike for a td, something that certain people dont bother to point out.

    Its so easy to criticize when a player doesnt do exactly what you want him to. Name me 10 guys that are better than bulger. He is a top 1/3 qb and as a result, i think we have far bigger holes to address, starting with offensive line.

    Did anyone watch the giants steelers game today? Big Ben was terrible with the pass rush in his face. Three INT's and they lost the game. No way is anyone going to convince me that super bowl title or not a guy like big ben is better than bulger.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel
    Ill name two....... Matt Ryan and Flacco.. Rooks. Its common sense. Not
    rocket sience..

  13. #28
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Interesting post, and not likely to be resolved - EVER.

    I like Bulger - (see Avatar-lol), but he's got serious limitations.

    Every time the other team goes after him, he f's up. Whether it's a sack, int or incompletion, all you have to do to defeat the Rams when you know they're throwing, is blitz. We've all been watching it for 8 years now, and it hasn't really changed. And you can blame our blitz pick-ups (or lack thereof), and receivers who aren't reading them.

    But the fact is, other teams simply are not as susceptible to blitzing, and that, IMO falls on Bulger. It's not like he hasn't seen enough of it.

    It's not really fair, but he's not going to get better, because he's not going to get more mobile. Mobile QB's, again IMO, are a necessity these days, as opposed to a luxury.
    Last edited by VegasRam; -10-27-2008 at 04:37 PM.
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  14. #29
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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Quote Originally Posted by dgr828 View Post
    No hate for Bulger here, but he will be called out when it's just deserved! No perfect time than the present! We win that game with leadership today. Making the right plays at the right times wins that ball game today. Bulger is supposed to be a season veteran, paid to produce, against a 3rd string QB, who out shined him today! BE A LEADER, MARC! GET THE W!
    DON'T HATE THE PLAYER, BUT I DO HATE HIS GAME, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT!!! Don't pacify this guy, give him a boot in his seat spot to get him going!
    Don't compare him with others, keep the focus squarely on him.
    79.5 passer rating flat out sucks! It's RE~GOT~DAM~DICULOUS! 4 REAL!
    Whats ridiculous here is your post. You gave Bulger the rating as stated on NFL.com. What you failed to do first was remove the stats of Bulgers under Losehan and his blow-outs. Now go back and look at the last two games...

    I'll give you a hint... he's A LOT higher!

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    Re: Name 10 qbs better than bulger

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigredman
    Bulger making the pro bowl was more the product of the talent around him than his play and leadership.

    Interesting way of phrasing it, BRM. If Bulger's successes were the product of the talent around him rather than his play and leadership, wouldn't his failures also be a product of the talent around him?
    Nah...I'm pretty sure it was all on him!

    I didn't couch my argument in terms of Bulger's successes, but as a perennial pro bowler. There are those that are considered perennial pro bowl quarterbacks because they lead their team to wins that they wouldn't have made if it weren't for their leadership or great play. In other words, they make the players around them better. I don't see Bulger having done that, but the opposite to be true. Bulger is very much dependent on the talent around him.
    Last edited by bigredman; -10-27-2008 at 03:34 PM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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