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Thread: The New Found Toughness

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    Re: The New Found Toughness

    All of these guys are tough or they wouldn't be in the NFL. This league is made up of the top 0.0001% of the world's football players. There are no "softies" in the NFL. Having said that, there are certainly levels of mental toughness that will either enhance or detract from one's career. IMO, Ernie Conwell and Alex Barron are perfect examples of either end of this spectrum.

    But there has to be something more than toughness. Mixed martial artists, SWAT team members, Spec. Ops. operators, rodeo clowns, AvengerRam's sommelier......these are all tough guys, but they're not in the NFL. Talent is essential; and this roster has had little of it over the past few years. Who's to say the exact point when the Rams' talent evaluators became incapable of consistently identifying talent (I'd say it is roughly the time Charley Armey left the building, but I digress), but the fact is that talent has to be present before any portion of 'toughness' can be assigned to a roster.

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    All becuase they are in the nfl does not mean they are tough... Lol, maybe tougher than you but no. Orlando Pace isnt a tough guy, but he was very talented. He aknowledge this and anyone ive ever heard on an interview has said Pace is a big teddy bear, but he's no puch over either.... Just not the type to have a naisty streak

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    Re: The New Found Toughness

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcat View Post
    All because they are in the nfl does not mean they are tough... Lol, maybe tougher than you but no.
    Yeah, maybe it's semantics, but I would say that mental toughness, as you describe it, is the only kind. If you can bench press a horse, that means you're strong but that doesn't make you tough. If you can backpedal and shadow and contain a defensive lineman, that means you're skilled but that doesn't make you tough. And in the NFL, you've got some of those guys who were brought in because they have the right physical attributes or the right skills but who are not really "tough".

    The distinction I would make, though, is that in my mind, toughness is being able to persevere, keep one's head under pressure, and not shrink away from an aggressive opponent. In my mind, that's not the same thing as having a nasty streak. So, I don't think after the whistle shoving matches are necessarily a mark of toughness. If guys like Dahl and Finnegan get our team to play more physically and more aggressively, great... but if we just take more cheap shots and get more penalties, well, we don't people to think we're the Raiders, do we?

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    Re: The New Found Toughness

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcat View Post
    All becuase they are in the nfl does not mean they are tough... Lol, maybe tougher than you but no. Orlando Pace isnt a tough guy, but he was very talented. He aknowledge this and anyone ive ever heard on an interview has said Pace is a big teddy bear, but he's no puch over either.... Just not the type to have a naisty streak
    Sorry, but no. First off, being tougher than me is no big deal. I'm a total sissy. The 1,700 men that make up the rosters of the NFL are tough guys just by being there. That's a level of toughness that neither you nor I will ever understand. The difference between the top end of an NFL roster and the bottom end of an NFL roster is not some kind of simplistic, sophomoric view of toughness. It's talent and mental toughness.

    And Orlando Pace not tough? I just have to shake my head. Pace is actually the perfect example of how talent and mental toughness leads to success.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    I was being sarcastic but everyone in the nfl aint tough. Not even mentally tough! Some guys are just talented enough to make it and dont have the mental or physical toughness, or desire to make it..... I just heard an interview with Marshal Fualk and he was asked about Jason Smith and you know what he said... "We wasnt TOUGH enough". Money is a motivator ya know.... And as far as Pace goes, i aint seeing he's a push over.... Nevermind im done with the arguement

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    Re: The New Found Toughness

    I was being sarcastic but everyone in the nfl aint tough.
    I was sarcastic too; I'm the baddest mofo that ever walked the earth.





    Nah, I'm still a sissy.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: The New Found Toughness

    Sorry HUbs, but I'm gonna have to side with fastcat on that one. Just because you're a professional athlete doesn't make you tough.

    Vince Young ain't tough. Sidney Rice ain't tough. Peyton Hillis is a big, strong beast of a man, but when the going got tough for him last season, he showed his soft side.

    However, I agree that there must be a controlled ferocity to 'toughness' as to not draw constant flags and put the team in a bad position.


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    Re: The New Found Toughness

    Quote Originally Posted by Fettmaster View Post
    Sorry HUbs, but I'm gonna have to side with fastcat on that one. Just because you're a professional athlete doesn't make you tough.
    That's fine, Fett. Everyone has the right to be wrong. (I'm just playing.)

    Ultimately, we're just arguing degrees and semantics. Of course, they're tough, or they wouldn't be in the NFL. Hillis, Rice, Young, etc. included. They are world class athletes that have successfully imposed their will on their opposition at every stage of the game since junior high. In the broadest sense of the word, it's not even a debate.

    What they, and many, lack is the mental toughness to overcome at the NFL level. Not the sophomoric bravado that many see as "toughness", but rather an honest will to win.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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