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  1. #1
    VegasRam's Avatar
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    not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    but Spags and Billy should be receiving congratulatory telegrams from Ram fans.

    Let's recap:

    Holt - one year, one team.
    Incognito - one year, one team.
    Hill - one year, one team.
    Pace - one year and gone.
    Witherspoon - one year, one team.
    Draft - one year, one team.
    Tinoisamoa - one year and hurt.
    Wade - not picked up.
    Bennett - not picked up.
    McMichael - won't be picked up.
    Romberg - can't find where he's playing.
    Scheuning - ditto.

    There was a LOT of knee jerk negative reaction to these cuts, but they've ALL proven to be good decisions, and that doesn't include what we got in return for them.

    And that's not even talking about the last two drafts.

    Kinda' hard to believe Billy's only been here two years, and Spags only one.

    They've done it a little at a time, and didn't pick up any "glamour" positions, so got no press, but I feel we just don't realise how significant the changes they've made actually are.

    Be thankful for what you have people, and be a little patient. We really are on our way.

    Trust me - (I'm not from the government), and have watched this team for 47 years.

    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  2. #2
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    I noticed this the other day. But it's summer break from that stressful semester and I was going to wait until an article picked up on it.

    Trust me, I was furious when some of the players were released, but it turned out to be a good decision. We probably have the youngest team in the league, and we are going to watch these guys grow together.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Devaney, if you care about this team... fire the offensive coordinator!!!!

  3. #3
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    I hate to nit pick, but Wade plays for the Lions

    A list like this really puts things in perspective though. Thanks for sharing!

  4. #4
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    It does seem that they were in the right to unload a lot of these guys, but cutting your losses is the easy part--especially when the blame lies with your predecessor. It's almost always easier to destroy something than to build it. The real test isn't whether they can acknowledge the mistakes of the past, but whether they can make better decisions in the future.

  5. #5
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    Tory Holt? Your glad Tory Holt is gone? Did you see his finger? He still catches TD's with that hand. I see he is getting old and slow, but others have gone farther and been productive. Take Issac Bruce,,,still in the league today, well maybe. Jerry Rice took the Raiders to the super bowl.

  6. #6
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    Quote Originally Posted by lordwhttgr View Post
    Tory Holt? Your glad Tory Holt is gone? Did you see his finger? He still catches TD's with that hand.
    Uh, no he doesnt. He hasnt caught a TD since he was in a Rams uniform.

  7. #7
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    Quote Originally Posted by lordwhttgr View Post
    Tory Holt? Your glad Tory Holt is gone? Did you see his finger? He still catches TD's with that hand. I see he is getting old and slow, but others have gone farther and been productive. Take Issac Bruce,,,still in the league today, well maybe. Jerry Rice took the Raiders to the super bowl.
    I love Holt so I'm not trying to be argumentative but last year he had 0 tds and 1 fumble. He is with the Pats now but I seriously doubt he gets a lot of touches.

    Rice did not take the Raiders to the Super Bowl. He had 800 and some yards with only 2 tds in 2003.

    It's interesting you use him and Bruce as examples of long careers. I would probably use them as examples of two players that should have quit while they were ahead.

    Just my opinion though.

  8. #8
    lordwhttgr's Avatar
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    You are 100% right, Tory Holt on the Jacksonville Jags caught no TD's, But my point was to his toughness. He was signed to a 20 million 3 year contract with the Jags and released on 11 Feb 2010. Bill Belicheck and the Pats still see worth in him and signed him for 1 year 1.7 million. So I’m not the only one who thinks he can still play. We lost a Pro Bowl WR in 2008. Here are just some of the things he has done:
    7×Elected to the pro bowl 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
    1× First-team All pro selection 2003
    1× Second-team All-Pro selection 2006
    2× Rams MVP (2003, 2005)
    NFL all decade team

  9. #9
    Bar-bq's Avatar
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    Quote Originally Posted by lordwhttgr View Post
    We lost a Pro Bowl WR in 2008. Here are just some of the things he has done:
    7×Elected to the pro bowl 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
    1× First-team All pro selection 2003
    1× Second-team All-Pro selection 2006
    2× Rams MVP (2003, 2005)
    NFL all decade team
    I guess the question then becomes what has he done since 2008?

    In '08, the answer was not that much. In '09, it was about the same. We'll see what happens this year, but at the moment, it looks like Billy D and Spagnuolo made the right decision fiscally, as well as in terms of Holt's declining ability to play the game.

  10. #10
    lordwhttgr's Avatar
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    Tory Holt
    In '08 64 catches for 796 yards 3 TD's
    In '09 51 catches for 722 yards 35 first downs no TD's

    Now lets look at what we have on our current roster.

    Donnie Avery 2009 injured most of year
    47 catches for 589 yards 5 TD's
    Laurent Robinson in his whole carrer (3Years worth) injured most of carrer
    42 catches 489 yards
    Keenan Burton
    13 catches 172 yards 1 TD
    The rest are rookies and practice squad players.

    Please if I am missing something, point it out. I got my information from the Rams home page. I or it may be wrong.

    Based on those numbers is Tory all that bad?

  11. #11
    Bar-bq's Avatar
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    Quote Originally Posted by lordwhttgr View Post
    Tory Holt

    Based on those numbers is Tory all that bad?
    Not based on those numbers, no. But, based on what we've seen he's capable of in years previous, and based on what we'd have had to pay him, I personally feel we made the right decision. In the case of Avery, we're netting similar production at a reduced cost. We know he has the ability to improve. Perhaps that happens schematically, perhaps he hits the third year stride. We cross our fingers. For what it's worth, Laurent Robinson's stats through three games were also better than TH's.

    IMO, it's a matter of locating the ceiling. If you believe the coaches and (god forbid) the training camp reports, the ceiling is high on the young group of players we have at the moment. With Torry, that ceiling appears to be perpetually decreasing. He's still a good player and had been stellar for us over the course of his career. Still, I think the time was right to cut ties.

  12. #12
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    In retrospect, I think we should have traded Holt back when Curtis was looking for more playing time. It would have been difficult to predict at the time, but it turned out that Bruce had more good years remaining despite being four years older while Holt at 29 or 30 would have had significant trade value. I'm hard pressed to think of any memorable catches from him after Martz' last season.

  13. #13
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    The problem with Torry Holt was his (a) contract demands / production value ratio, and (b) his long term projected effectiveness. It just didn't create enough value to keep him around. Clearly his numbers after the Rams are an example of this.

  14. #14
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    Torry Holt wasn't doing anything and wanted too much money, why is this in debate, he had to go and be unproductive elsewhere...

    People throw out the numbers of our receivers as if they are in their 30's along with Holt. They have only just began to do anything, Holt has already done what he's going to be remembered for.

    Hacking the fat and producing the lean meat. We've hacked a lot of fat, now we're in the process of producing the lean meat.

  15. #15
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    Re: not only should they NOT be taking any heat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Torry Holt wasn't doing anything and wanted too much money, why is this in debate, he had to go and be unproductive elsewhere...

    People throw out the numbers of our receivers as if they are in their 30's along with Holt. They have only just began to do anything, Holt has already done what he's going to be remembered for.

    Hacking the fat and producing the lean meat. We've hacked a lot of fat, now we're in the process of producing the lean meat.
    Unfortunately, results thus far suggest we've been getting more "Manager's Special" and less "Grade A" to start with.

    This current organization is really shaping up as something that will prove just how much an impact coaching has on player development and performance. Sadly, time is also a factor.

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