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Thread: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

  1. #346
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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Oh good grief. This really is simple, biblically speaking.

    Homosexual acts are sins.
    Heterosexual acts are also sins, outside of marriage.

    The penalty for sin of any kind is death (and hell).
    Sin can be forgiven. And forgiveness is available for free, because Jesus already paid the very high cost of it.

    As Christians, it is our duty to judge righteously (things like having standards). However, it is not our duty to inflict our judgment on non-believers. Jesus gave everyone the ability to make their own choices, and live with the consequences of those choices. Jesus never went around blasting people for their sins -- the only people he really laid into were hypocritical and false religious leaders.

    Today, I believe everybody, Christian or otherwise, has the right to voice their opinions about anything. But from a Christian perspective, simply being a Christian doesn't give one the right to hit non-Christians over the head with a Bible. If we are going to represent God and his word, we'd better be doing it in a way that reflects well on him. God is not honored by people being idiots in his name.

    In this context, Michael Sam is indeed a sinner. Just like the rest of us. The fact that his prefered sin is homosexual acts does not make him a worse sinner than the rest of us.

    Now, for people here who are not Christians and don't believe in concepts like sin or hell, continued hammering away by Christians isn't doing anybody any good, so give it a rest already. I'm pretty sure they have the point by now, they just disagree. And persistent jousting isn't going to make them agree.

    But that's just my opinion, for whatever that's worth.
    Last edited by BlueTalon; -05-18-2014 at 08:50 PM. Reason: for clarity


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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FestusRam View Post
    Wasn't abstaining from the touching or devouring of pig carcasses in there somewhere?

    Looks like throwing around the ol' pigskin is indeed a sin! Our can we just ignore that little excerpt?
    That's funny.

    Again, biblically speaking, that's something that was abolished at the cross.

    However, many believers today follow the clean / unclean Hebraic precepts of the pentateuch (e.g., Leviticus 11) for health reasons, not for soteriology. In some churches this doctrine is known as the Health Reform and it sets dietary guidelines for foods that yield a more wholesome lifestyle under the ideal that ones body is the temple of the Holy Spirit (I Cor. 6:19).


    As we know though, the so-called "pigskin" football is not made of porky hide at all. For more than 100 years most of the professional, collegiate or junior level footballs are made from cowhide and other synthetic materials for the bladder and the laces.

    American and Canadian football[edit]

    In Canada and the United States, the term football usually refers to a ball made of leather, which is required in professional and collegiate football. Footballs used in recreation, and in organised youth leagues, may be made of rubber or plastic materials (the high school football rulebooks still allow the inexpensive all-rubber footballs, though they are less common than leather).

    Leather panels are usually tanned to a natural brown color, which is usually required in professional leagues and collegiate play. At least one manufacturer uses leather that has been tanned to provide a "tacky" grip in dry or wet conditions.


    The leather is usually stamped with a pebble-grain texture to help players grip the ball. Some or all of the panels may be stamped with the manufacturer's name, league or conference logos, signatures, and other markings. Four panels or pieces of leather or plastic are required for each football. After a series of quality control inspections for weight and blemishes, workers begin the actual manufacturing process.


    Typical modern American football as used in the NFL, 1960s - 70s. -


    Polyvinyl chloride or leather laces are inserted through the perforations, to provide a grip for holding, hiking and passing the football. The ball weighs 14 to 15 ounces (400 to 430 grams).


    Since 1941, Horween Leather Company has been the exclusive supplier of leather for National Football League footballs. The arrangement was established initially by Arnold Horween, who had played and coached in the NFL. During that time, he met and played against George Halas, an NFL player and later coach and owner of the Chicago Bears, with whom he became friends. Halas' connection with the Wilson Sporting Goods Company and the NFL led to Horween Leather Company supplying the leather with NFL footballs. The company uses its own "Tanned in Tack" process.


    Although footballs are often called "pigskins," they are made from Horween Leather Company-supplied steer hides that are embossed with a pebble pattern. Horween Leather Company also supplies leather to Spalding (a division of Russell Corporation) for indoor Arena Football League footballs.


    Source: Wikipedia
    Last edited by RealRam; -05-18-2014 at 08:27 PM. Reason: Football picture

  3. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTalon View Post

    Now, for people here who are not Christians and don't believe in concepts like sin or hell, continued hammering away at it isn't doing anybody any good, so give it a rest already. But that's just my opinion, for whatever that's worth.
    You lost me with that part.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTalon View Post
    Oh good grief. This really is simple, biblically speaking.

    Homosexual acts are sins.
    Heterosexual acts are also sins, outside of marriage.

    The penalty for sin of any kind is death (and hell).
    Sin can be forgiven. And forgiveness is available for free, because Jesus already paid the very high cost of it.

    As Christians, it is our duty to judge righteously (things like having standards). However, it is not our duty to inflict our judgment on non-believers. Jesus gave everyone the ability to make their own choices, and live with the consequences of those choices. Jesus never went around blasting people for their sins -- the only people he really laid into were hypocritical and false religious leaders.

    Today, I believe everybody, Christian or otherwise, has the right to voice their opinions about anything. But from a Christian perspective, simply being a Christian doesn't give one the right to hit non-Christians over the head with a Bible. If we are going to represent God and his word, we'd better be doing it in a way that reflects well on him. God is not honored by people being idiots in his name.

    In this context, Michael Sam is indeed a sinner. Just like the rest of us. The fact that his preferred sin is homosexual acts does not make him a worse sinner than the rest of us.

    Now, for people here who are not Christians and don't believe in concepts like sin or hell, continued hammering away at it isn't doing anybody any good, so give it a rest already. But that's just my opinion, for whatever that's worth.

    Excellent post Blue. As I too mentioned, believers ought not to rub the bible or its doctrines into anyone's face, including MSam. Neither Tim Tebow, neither Sam Bradford, neither you, nor I.


    In the parable of the banquet there's an interesting saying by Jesus to ... "invite":

    "Then the master told his servant, 'Go out to the roads and country lanes and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full.'" - Lk. 14:23 [In some languages 'compel them' is translated as 'force them'. Interesting.]

    It is by the compassionate invitation that sinners are brought to the feet of the Lord. I also alluded to the well known fact that it is up to them to believe, repent, and convert ... or, to just get up and leave.

    "I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died…"
    - Rom. 7, v8

    Indeed, EVERY MAN STUMBLES save for One.


    But there could be a difference between "sin succinct" and "sin superlative". There are a number of passages where scripture indicates that certain people committed 'exceedingly' sinful mistakes in departing from God's ways. Those were not sins of the light variety. [ Read about Roy Simmon's life of sin here below, it got kind of nasty. But he was transformed into a new creature (II Cor. 5:17)]


    "Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful." - Rom. 7:13

    A few months ago ex-NFL player Roy Simmons (guard, Giants 1979-82) died at the age of 57, perhaps a dissolute lifestyle. He had been gay most of his life but not openly to the public -- and there was no media madness as nowadays.

    -

    In the latter years of his life however, he did, in fact, accept the Lord as his savior and embraced a life of redeeming faith [story here, copy / paste for link: CBN.com/700club/features/sports_roy_simmons.aspx. For the record, I am not a fan of The 700 Club.]

    Left: Simmons during his NFL years and then as a born again Christian.


    It is indeed possible to come into a renewed mindset (Rom. 12:2), a new life, and into a path of redemption. Would MSam come to Christ eventually? We don't know, of course. We'll see if he makes THE team.
    Last edited by RealRam; -05-18-2014 at 08:38 PM. Reason: Spehleen!

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    You lost me with that part.
    I was talking about Christians hammering the point at non-Christians, not the other way around. Sorry about the ambiguity. I edited the previous post to more accurately state what I meant to say.
    Last edited by BlueTalon; -05-18-2014 at 08:55 PM.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RealRam View Post
    Excellent post Blue. As I too mentioned, believers ought not to rub the bible or its doctrines into anyone's face, including MSam. Neither Tim Tebow, neither Sam Bradford, neither you, nor I.
    If you think believers ought not to "rub the bible or its doctrines into anyone's face", then why do you keep doing it? Do you honestly think they haven't got the point by now? Or do you think they are almost at the point of understanding, and a few more really long posts just might do the trick?

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTalon View Post
    If you think believers ought not to "rub the bible or its doctrines into anyone's face", then why do you keep doing it? Do you honestly think they haven't got the point by now? Or do you think they are almost at the point of understanding, and a few more really long posts just might do the trick?
    It is absurd to think, BT, that what I -- or any other believer, famous (e.g., Russell Wilson), or unknown -- discuss among fellow believers to reach someone would be the actual tactic to use with a non-believer, be that MSam or whomever. Whenever possible, approaching a person for spiritual study is something planned for and prayed upon, otherwise one might scare him / her away.

    As it is, I'm not assuming that MSam is "reading my posts" you know, long or short.

    That is not what you call 'the trick'.

    - The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread-1-1ew-pastor.jpg ...Clic on image, R.

    Right, church pastor and Cleveland Browns RB Eddie Williams discusses outreach ministry.
    Last edited by RealRam; -05-19-2014 at 04:39 AM. Reason: The Word...

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Why do you need to reach a non-believer?

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    Why do you need to reach a non-believer?
    Mark 16:15-16

    And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk247 View Post
    Why do you need to reach a non-believer?
    Very good question! In all fairness, the same would apply for non-believers to "reach" believers.*


    This whole idea and purpose of outreach ministries in Christianity is essentially to follow what is known as 'The Great Commission' as called by Jesus:

    "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation". - Mark 16:15
    "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." - Mt. 28:19,20

    Said effort also follows the ultimate, historic and Abrahamic covenant on the basis of love (and don't we know that this covenant has also been abused on the basis of war - but that's another story) ... to spread the Word of the Lord:

    Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

    And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. - Gen. 12:1-3

    Of course, the mechanics of the gospel go beyond this but in a nutshell such is the unique mission of the church.




    Christ ordaining his apostles, one of which chose to 'decline'.


    That's how we see NFL players, both low-key figures as well as superstars put forth a ministry of outreach, including past and current players.

    Sooner than later MSam will receive the compassionate invitation from a believer within the Rams team or another NFL organization.









    Some players' ministry is focused on prison inmates. Big Bill Glass played 11 years in the NFL (1958-68), Cleveland Browns, Detroit Lions (DL, C). Former Rams TE Mike Barber (1982-85) and now Christian pastor, below, also ministers to prisoners.

    -


    *. And this has, in effect, happened throughout history, believers falling from the long and narrow road to form what is called apostasy. Some return to the fold, others never do.

    PS: Rambos, we were typing at the same time. ^_^

    Last edited by RealRam; -05-19-2014 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Format, ram

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Not for me thanks.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    That's okayyyy, that is okay T247.

    All the best.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    Not for me thanks.
    This answer always fascinates me. It's also a heck of a lot better than a lot of the answers people give these days.
    "I've been saving the Universe for over a thousand years. I figure it owes me just this once."

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenWing View Post
    This answer always fascinates me.
    Why does it fascinate you?

    Personally I don't like the idea of pushing or even suggesting one's beliefs onto another.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    That's exactly why. It's so rare for someone to hold that opinion anymore that I always pause and observe it when I see it.

    Also I thought you were referring to religion as a whole, rather than proselytizing, but it remains a fascinating answer for me in both regards. The amount of people in the modern world (particularly on the internet) interested in forcing their opinions and beliefs on others is particularly high. There was a time when Atheists, for example, largely left people alone. Now many of them do as much preaching as Evangelists.
    "I've been saving the Universe for over a thousand years. I figure it owes me just this once."

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