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Thread: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

  1. #391
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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLegend28 View Post
    the bible says you cant get tattoos and piercings, do you guys follow them too? Also, you guys stone your kids when theyre bad? Pick and choose what to follow in the bible lol.
    Seriously? That might be the single stupidest post I have ever seen on this forum.

    Everything has a context. For Christians, the context is the New Testament. If you actually read it sometime, it will explain why we don't stone kids or anybody else.
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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Av, on the kisstory spectacle (which eventually will be as normal as a shadow or a 'G' rated movies), to most conservative Christians - yes, most conservative Christians, as myself - the TV image was revolting and offensive.

    The images you posted of male - female kissing are different, totally / morally different. Let's get with the program here! To the chagrin of some, there is still a blatant difference between gay people, and straight people.




    There's no doubt that the ways of the gays are becoming more and more common and openly public. Enter MSam stage left and into the Rams press conference with rookies. To some, and, again, more and more, such displays are no big deal; same with gay men holding hands as boyfriend partners (**Ugh**).


    THAT is what Rambos, myself, and others here rightfully present, IMO, as stemming from sin or, at its minimal condition as a synonym ... immoral. It departs from conventional and conservative lexicon of conformity, decency and virtue; it counters the traditional standard of respectability and dignity. So much so, that...

    Gay pride [ some gays are more shameless / unabashed and uninhibited than other low key or reserved gay people (please see post #95, p. 7 for implicit, non-explicit images) ] - by its very description in current times SEEKS to go against conformity, it often prides itself in making physical demonstration which goes directly AGAINST THE MORALITY, NORM AND STANDARDS OF TRADITIONAL SOCIOLOGY. Otherwise, they wouldn't be gays! ...Much of their fun would turn to boredom, the antithesis of gay living and lifestyle.


    Thus the derivative of the term SIN / SINFUL in the views of Christian mainstream to describe said lifestyle.


    BTW, I found these two links interesting from a conservative Jewish perspective. In case you may want to add them to your extensive research. Blue links below for copy / paste.

    1. Homosexuality and Halakhah, by Rabbi Michael Gold:

    Myjewishlearning.com/life/Sex_and_Sexuality/Homosexuality/Homosexuality_and_Halakhah.shtml?p=1.

    2. A Common Missed Conception - Why religious people are against gay marriage, by Steven Waldman:
    Slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2003/11/a_common_missed_conception.html


    Oh, I'm well aware that contrary to these articles there are liberal and progressive Jewish movements that are radically changing some of these views and modifying certain positions on gays, gay marriage, etc., a full 180 degrees.

    Very sad IMO, though not surprising.


    No doubt the Rams MUST shield MSam from the two opposing arguments and views. Don't know if there may be a few Rams players that need support just the same to support their personal faith in Christ and the bible. Some NFL organizations have team chaplains to help with this. Not sure if the Rams do, I wouldn't think so.




    PS: I too would be annoyed if someone would insist in converting my church denomination, that is, after I would respectfully decline the invite. I really don't think any of the NFL players would take that approach, even by league policies and procedures.

    One Christian pastor, Alan Rudnick in an article titled 'The NFL Needs God' (Nov., 2009), states: "Believe it or not, the NFL regularly uses chaplains and spiritual advisers for players and teams."
    Last edited by RealRam; -05-21-2014 at 06:46 PM.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTalon View Post

    Everything has a context. For Christians, the context is the New Testament. If you actually read it sometime, it will explain why we don't stone kids or anybody else.
    Totally agree about the context, it sometimes is indispensable or even crucial. However, Christians don't necessarily rely on the N.T. as their context. Many, many evangelical and catholic churches conform their doctrines on both the O.T and N.T.

    Many evangelical denominations believe that the bible as a whole (66 books) is Christ centered.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RealRam View Post
    Av, on the kisstory spectacle (which eventually will be as normal as a shadow or a 'G' rated movies), to most conservative Christians - yes, most conservative Christians, as myself - the TV image was revolting and sickening.

    The images you posted of male - female kissing are different, totally / morally different. Let's get with the program here! To the chagrin of some, there is still a blatant difference between gay people, and straight people.




    There's no doubt that the ways of the gays are becoming more and more common and openly public. Enter MSam stage left and into the Rams press conference with rookies. To some, and, again, more and more, such displays are no big deal; same with gay men holding hands as boyfriend partners (**Ugh**).


    THAT is what Rambos, myself, and others here rightfully present, IMO, as stemming from sin or, at its minimal condition as a synonym ... immoral. It departs from conventional and conservative lexicon of conformity, decency and virtue; it counters the traditional standard of respectability and dignity. So much so, that...

    Gay pride [ some gays are more shameless / unabashed and uninhibited than other low key or reserved gay people (please see post #95 for implicit, non-explicit images) ] - by its very description in current times SEEKS to go against conformity, it often prides itself in making physical demonstration which goes directly AGAINST THE MORALITY, NORM AND STANDARDS OF TRADITIONAL SOCIOLOGY. Otherwise, they wouldn't be gays! ...Much of their fun would turn to boredom, the antithesis of gay living and lifestyle.


    Thus the derivative of the term SIN / SINFUL in the views of Christian mainstream to describe said lifestyle.


    BTW, I found these two links interesting from a conservative Jewish perspective. In case you may want to add them to your extensive research. Blue links below for copy / paste.

    1. Homosexuality and Halakhah, by Rabbi Michael Gold:

    Myjewishlearning.com/life/Sex_and_Sexuality/Homosexuality/Homosexuality_and_Halakhah.shtml?p=1.

    2. A Common Missed Conception - Why religious people are against gay marriage, by Steven Waldman:
    Slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2003/11/a_common_missed_conception.html


    Oh, I'm well aware that contrary to these articles there are liberal and progressive Jewish movements that are radically changing some of these views and modifying certain positions on gays, gay marriage, etc., a full 180 degrees.

    Very sad IMO, though not surprising.


    No doubt the Rams MUST shield MSam from the two opposing arguments and views. Don't know if there may be a few Rams players that need support just the same to support their personal faith in Christ and the bible. Some NFL organizations have team chaplains to help with this. Not sure if the Rams do, I wouldn't think so.




    PS: I too would be annoyed if someone would insist in converting my church denomination, that is, after I would respectfully decline the invite. I really don't think any of the NFL players would take that approach, even by league policies and procedures.

    One Christian pastor, Alan Rudnick in an article titled 'The NFL Needs God' (Nov., 2009), states: "Believe it or not, the NFL regularly uses chaplains and spiritual advisers for players and teams."
    You sound uncomfortable in your own beliefs. Otherwise you wouldn't be ranting and preaching so much. Quite frankly Michael Sam, his boyfriend and homosexuality as a whole shouldn't affect you if you are a man comfortable with his own sexuality and comfortable with your own beliefs. But the fact you are taking such an interest suggests you are very uncomfortable. After all, what else has it got to do with you? The only way you would be ranting this way is to convince yourself because you really aren't convincing anyone else.

    Oh and yes, the NFL uses chaplains and spiratual advisers for players and teams. Many players pray before or after games. But only those players that are religious. There is no team forcing players to pray to a god they don't believe in.
    ramsbruce and FestusRam like this.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    You know what really pisses me off about this entire thing? Its people like RealRam throwing Gods name around as a being of hate. (yes you are read your posts, its hate not love you are preaching). I believe in a God that accepts everyone, who loves everyone and made everyone for a purpose.

    Being gay is not a sin, its not if you think that then you clearly don't understand gods message of love. Why would he make people gay, if only to punish them?

    I don't know what God people like you speak of in this post but I can tell you it's not the loving one that I pray to and worship.

    Bottom line, you can quote the bible all you want, but God is bigger than the bible. Everything he is, isn't contained in that one small book.

  6. #396
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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianRamsFan View Post
    Bottom line, you can quote the bible all you want, but God is bigger than the bible. Everything he is, isn't contained in that one small book.
    Especially since most English versions of the book were written 400/500 years ago, around 1,500 years after the stories are actually supposed to have happened...

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    English versions of the Bible were translated, not written.
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  8. #398
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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    From Peter King's MMQB ---

    The Sam Chronicles, Chapter II

    There will be plenty of drama for Michael Sam this summer, but it won't come from the off-the-field documentary series Oprah was planning with Sam and his boyfriend, Vito Cammisano. There will be plenty of drama for Michael Sam this summer, but it won’t come from the off-the-field documentary series Oprah is planning with Sam and his boyfriend, Vito Cammisano.

    In the end, Michael Sam did the right thing. He told coach Jeff Fisher and GM Les Snead that he was going to make his situation right, after the Rams were blindsided by the news of the Oprah Winfrey Network (OWN) planning a “docuseries” on his rookie year as the first openly gay NFL player. And OWN did the right thing too, in sitting down with the Rams Friday and not trying to convince club officials what a great show this was going to be. OWN, I’m told, told the Rams they would happily postpone the series—or perhaps never do it—if that was the best thing for Sam’s attempt to make the team as a seventh-round defensive end this summer. The meeting Friday was only positive, I’m told, because OWN was clear that the only way it would do the series is if Sam wanted it and the Rams wanted it. And it’s just as clear that, for both sides, the series would be best done beginning next off-season, assuming Sam makes the team and plays some this year.

    In some ways, it’s a shame we won’t see (at least now) the trials of Sam in this rookie year, the personal side of trying to be the first openly gay player fighting for a spot on the team. It would be compelling to see Sam at home with his boyfriend, and certainly a help to the LGBT community, dealing with what surely will be a stressful time in his life. But for Sam, it’s just better that it be postponed.

    Why? Because Sam is a football player, a rookie trying to find his way onto a football team as an underdog low-round draft pick. Could it help him make the team, or help him make his mark? I don’t see how. But I do see how teammates could either resent him or be angry with him as a low man on the team totem pole. And Sam doesn’t need that. He needs to find his spot and be solely focused on making the team. There is going to be enough of a sideshow—big media names and TMZ showing up at Rams Park, clamoring to get a Sam story or interview—without Sam voluntarily adding to it. At the scouting combine, Sam semi-pleaded with the media to see him as a football player and not as a gay football player. It would have been hypocritical for him, then, to seek that attention by having OWN cameras in his face off the field as he battled to succeed in his first year.

    I’ve thought a lot about this story in the past week, as I’m sure everyone who follows football has. And the more I think about it, the more I think Sam landed in a perfect spot. Absolutely perfect. Three reasons:
    1.The Rams embrace the history of it. I can tell you with certainty that there was some regret in the Rams hierarchy that Sam’s rookie story won’t be told by OWN. Not enough to override the fact that the team really didn’t want it to be done. But the Rams are sure they’ll be a welcoming team and St. Louis a welcoming community for Sam. They’re fired up about the historical significance and the chance to show that a football team can be a change agent.

    2.There are not two better coaches in the league, in tandem, for this task than Jeff Fisher and Gregg Williams. Williams especially. He is The Name That Shall Not Be Mentioned In New Orleans and will be until he day he dies, because the Saints and their fans view him as a rat for spilling his guts about Bountygate. But Williams wants badly to resurrect his career and make his mark with a strong defense featuring a Williams persona. What better way than having a nickel pass-rusher playing 18 snaps a game in schemes isolating him to make plays, the kind of schemes Williams has been inventing for players throughout his career? Call it what you want. I will choose the word “ego.” Gregg Williams has the kind of ego to believe he can take a player with limited athleticism but good college production at a high level and put him in position to make NFL plays. I can’t wait to see what he has planned, frankly. As for Fisher, he’s a staunch league guy. He knows this is good for football and great for the NFL. He will do everything to give Sam the best chance to make it.

    3.Sam knows Missouri. Missouri knows Sam. Sam took a teammate to an LGBT parade in Missouri while at the university. He likes St. Louis. And St. Louis likes him back. Even those not empathetic to Sam the gay man from Missouri will want a positive light to shine on their state.

    Not to mention, the Rams kept nine defensive linemen last year and they have only three must-keeps (Chris Long, Robert Quinn, William Hayes) at defensive end. Yes, Sam is in the right place, and he and his team made the right decision to put off the reality show.

  9. #399
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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    Especially since most English versions of the book were written 400/500 years ago, around 1,500 years after the stories are actually supposed to have happened...
    That's why I use the original Koine Greek.
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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    BTW, I found these two links interesting from a conservative Jewish perspective. In case you may want to add them to your extensive research. Blue links below for copy / paste.

    1. Homosexuality and Halakhah, by Rabbi Michael Gold:

    Myjewishlearning.com/life/Sex_and_Sexuality/Homosexuality/Homosexuality_and_Halakhah.shtml?p=1.

    2. A Common Missed Conception - Why religious people are against gay marriage, by Steven Waldman:
    Slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2003/11/a_common_missed_conception.html


    Oh, I'm well aware that contrary to these articles there are liberal and progressive Jewish movements that are radically changing some of these views and modifying certain positions on gays, gay marriage, etc., a full 180 degrees.
    I've cautioned you about trying to lecture me on Judaism before, but I guess you're intent on trying to become a Google expert on the subject.

    I am well aware that there are Orthodox Jews who are intolerant of homosexuality. Your suggestion that this is the prevailing view, however, is incorrect. I belong to a Conservative Synagogue (not part of the "liberal" or "progressive" movement), and the Rabbis are openly supportive of the gay community and have created outreach programs to ensure that they feel welcome at the Synagogue.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    For those waiting to hear from Fisher here you go...

    Jeff Fisher: Michael Sam’s ‘Oprah Thing’ Not Good For Rams’ Locker Room

    by The Associated Press on Tue, May 20, 2014

    Michael Sam ST. LOUIS — Michael Sam is out of the TV spotlight, and the Rams hope to avoid being the subject of another high-profile show. Coach Jeff Fisher told The Associated Press on Monday that it’s “probably unlikely” the NFL will choose the Rams for HBO’s “Hard Knocks.” The Rams are among teams eligible to be chosen for three reasons: They haven’t appeared on the show for the past decade, haven’t hired a new head coach and haven’t reached the playoffs in either of the past two seasons. The Rams have never been picked and are coming off two seven-win seasons in Fisher’s first two years in the rugged NFC West. Fisher said the announcement by the Oprah Winfrey Network to film a documentary about Sam, the first openly gay player to be drafted by an NFL team, came as a surprise.

    “I think the Oprah thing, it caught us off guard,” Fisher said. “Whenever it takes place, I think it’ll be a positive piece.” Just not this summer.

    Not good for the locker room,” the coach said. “Nor Mike to get involved at this point.” Sam was the SEC co-defensive player of the year at Missouri, but he was drafted late in the seventh round after a poor NFL Scouting Combine performance, combined with other franchises’ concerns about taking a player who might be a distraction. Just a few hours before the series was postponed Friday, a camera crew filmed a rookie workout, interviewed reporters and asked other media members to sign release waivers. “We had a meeting and we got it resolved satisfactorily for everybody,” Fisher said. “The best thing for Mike right now is to just focus on football.”
    Last edited by Rambos; -05-20-2014 at 03:04 PM.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Not good for the locker room,” the coach said. “Nor Mike to get involved at this point.”
    The writing was on the wall when players expressed a problem with the series being made around them. At that point, wrong or right, the Rams had to put a stop to it.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Q: Godzilla has a son. What's his name?


















    A: Jesuszilla.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenWing View Post
    English versions of the Bible were translated, not written.
    Are you certain of this? They aren't exactly good translations as far as I know.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    Q: Godzilla has a son. What's his name?

    A: Jesuszilla.
    That made me laugh.

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