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Thread: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

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    RealRam's Avatar
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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    RealRam...

    How many people have to tell you that they perceive hatred in your words before you look inward and consider the possibility that you are not expressing yourself effectively?
    How many times do I have to say, either by self or by quotes of great thinkers, that the majority are not necessarily fair, correct or accurate?

    I may not be able to express myself 'effectively' but I think I get the message across, the crux of the matter in terms of what I reject. It just so happens that the majority (again, that false "stat" of security by the numbers), including yourself, disagree with the central aspects and thus look for replies like the one you just posted here.


    "When you're the only sane person, you look like the only insane person." - Jami


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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RealRam View Post
    How conveniently you structure your words T247. It's like hanging on to on argument only because you want to, not because you can sustain it.


    Twice, thrice, I've said that though I reject MSams lifestyle or gay ways, it does not automatically reflect hatred of the individual. I've also posted a few times that I've gotten along fine with the several gay people I worked with for years at different workplaces - that I've helped them as they have helped me. That I enjoy some songs written by gays (including in Spanish).
    Everything you say is the homophobic version of "I'm not racist but..."
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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Demetrius Rhaney, another 7th round pick by the Rams.

    I like what little I've read about him inside and outside of the Rams circle. It looks like he has a shot at making the team at center. I, like others here support him and hope he succeeds at improving the depth at C.

    If, however, immediately after DR's draft selection I would have started to moan and groan about him and complained and griped about him being "too heavy / not heavy enough, his weaknesses surpass his strengths, doesn't have enough YouTube highlights", etc....

    Then his supporters would have given me flack and his detractors might have joined in and we would have formed the 'No to Rhaney' front. ^_^

    But I doubt anyone would have brought up the 'H' word. "Oh, you hate Rhaney without even knowing how good [or bad] he is"; "you have nothing but hatred towards players from Tennessee State", and so on.

    No, that colorful 'H' would not be an issue if I did not support DR.




    Av, do I recall you lobbying here in more than one way against Scott Linehan to the point you actually formed some type of acronym - 'SLOP', I believe - to criticize and ridicule him as the Rams HC? Over and over, some times in sarcasm, other times jokingly and, occasionally, with a straight face.

    Interesting negative reactions and demeaning of the Rams HC, incompetent as he might have been. If that wasn't hating the man, I don't know what else it could have been. But in all honesty, I don't think you really 'hated' SL as a person. ...Did you?


    The point is, because I do not support MSam for being gay and don't mince words about it either, I am labeled as 'hateful' or worse. Never mind that I clearly and repeatedly have stated that I do NOT hate the person but rather, what the person represents; that I have gotten along with gay people even decades ago; that, if necessary, I would try CPR on a gay person, even mouth to mouth (I haven't updated to a non-mouth-to-mouth method from the AHA), just as a gay person would probably try to resuscitate me.


    So, no, I'm not worried that I'm perceived as hating. In my heart I can say, with faith and conviction in the God of love in whom I trust, that I don't hate. I'm not alone, I know there are others here, and in the NFL, and in the public at large that disapprove of gay players. And I've also recognized that if MSam doesn't make it in the NFL, other gays will. And then some.

    But there is no hatred within us.

    I heard something about a Duck Dynasty show that was criticized for the anti-gay views from some of the cast. I'm not sure, I didn't follow that news. But I understand those people stood firm in their beliefs.



    I don't believe in superstars,
    Organic food and foreign cars.
    I don't believe the price of gold,
    The certainty of growing old,
    That right is right and left is wrong,
    That north and south can't get along,
    That east is east and west is west,
    And bein' first is always best.

    But I believe in love
    I believe in babies,
    I believe in mom and dad,
    And I believe in you.

    Well, I don't believe that heaven waits,
    For only those who congregate.
    I'd like to think of God as love,
    He's down below,
    He's up above.

    He's watchin' people everywhere,
    He knows who does and doesn't care,
    And I'm an ordinary man,
    Sometimes I wonder who I am.

    But I believe in love
    I believe in music,
    I believe in magic,
    And I believe in you.

    I know with all my certainty,
    What's goin' on with you and me,
    Is a good thing;
    It's true,
    I believe in you.

    I don't believe virginity
    Is as common as it used be;
    In workin' days and sleepin' nights,
    That black is black and white is white;
    That Superman and Robinhood,
    Are still alive in Hollywood,
    That gasoline's in short supply,
    The risin' cost of gettin' by...

    But I believe in love,
    I believe in old folks,
    I believe in children,
    I believe in you.

    I believe in love,
    I believe in babies;
    I believe in mom and dad,
    And I believe in you.


    As sung by Don Williams, 1980.
    Lyrics by R. Cook & S. Hogin.

    ________________________________________________________________________________






    NFL DE Israel Idonije on his mission trip to West Africa
    Last edited by RealRam; -05-23-2014 at 06:32 PM. Reason: Spehleen

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk247 View Post
    Everything you say is the homophobic version of "I'm not racist but..."
    Sure it is T. Maybe you should have your eyes / ears checked. You may be suffering from selective hearing.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    RealRam...

    How many people have to tell you that they perceive hatred in your words before you look inward and consider the possibility that you are not expressing yourself effectively?
    Oh, I think he's expressing the way he truly feels exceptionally well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealRam View Post

    How many times do I have to say, either by self or by quotes of great thinkers, that the majority are not necessarily fair, correct or accurate?

    I may not be able to express myself 'effectively' but I think I get the message across, the crux of the matter in terms of what I reject. It just so happens that the majority (again, that false "stat" of security by the numbers), including yourself, disagree with the central aspects and thus look for replies like the one you just posted here.

    You've missed my point entirely.

    Nobody has the right to tell you how you feel.

    We can tell you, though, HOW YOU ARE COMING ACCROSS.

    Whatever your intent might be, and whatever you are trying to convey, YOU ARE COMING ACCROSS AS A MAN WITH A GREAT DEAL OF HATRED.

    Maybe you are so convinced that you are right that you don't care how people are perceiving your words. That does not make you a champion of faith fighting the hoards, though. It just makes you arrogant and closed minded.
    ramsbruce and Rammed like this.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FestusRam View Post
    Exactly.

    NFL teams and their owners didn't get to their billion dollar net worth status by not maximizing profits at every opportunity.

    Don't get me wrong guys, I know why they did it. I just hate it is all. I looked yesterday and at least they have Donald and Robinson on the top row now.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by evil disco man View Post
    Did Jesus ever say anything about gay people?
    Yes he did, if you believe the bible is the word of god.

    The Apostles and the prophets were the Word of God. When we read these words, we are listening not to the voice of man, but to the voice of God.

    Paul’s Letters to the Corinthians and Timothy

    Two of the verses in the New Testament that mention homosexuality are found in Paul’s first letters to the Corinthians and Timothy:

    “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9–10).
    Romans 1:21-27

    New International Version (NIV)

    21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

    24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Technically, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality that was recorded in the gospels as having come out of his physical mouth during his time on earth. He may very well have said something that wasn't recorded, but any argument to that effect would be without substance. I say that as one who believes in the entire 66 book Bible as the Word of God, written by men (with a few notable exceptions) as inspired by the Holy Spirit.

    Whether Paul received his doctrinal information directly from Jesus or via the Holy Spirit is also undeterminable from the gospel evidence. The only records of Jesus speaking with Paul have to do with his conversion and commission, there is little if anything to do with doctrine IIRC. The Bible is indeed clear on the subject of homosexual acts, but disco man asked if Jesus said anything to that effect -- and when someone asks that, they are usually referring to when Jesus was physically present.

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    I can only speak to what I believe and I believe the bible is the word of god.

    15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God2 may be complete, equipped for every good work.
    Hebrews 4:12
    For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
    I also believe in the Trinity.

    "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." (Isa. 45:5)

    There is no God but one. (1Cor. 8:4)

    And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)

    "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19)

    Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

    "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)

    "He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)

    [Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him." (John 14:16-17, 23)
    Last edited by Rambos; -05-23-2014 at 05:37 PM.
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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9–10).
    So I guess I won't be inheriting the kingdom of God then.......

    Originally Posted by RealRam

    How many times do I have to say, either by self or by quotes of great thinkers, that the majority are not necessarily fair, correct or accurate?
    True, a lot of the 'great thinkers' have been quoted with messages to this effect but sooner or later through scientific research or just improved education the world catches up to these 'great thinkers'. The same is happening with homosexuality - 400 years ago 98% of the population of most countries would strong condemn homosexual acts now that percentage is dwindling as the world catches up....

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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I also believe in the Trinity.
    I'm a fan of the Trinity as well...




    ...come on, we need some more levity in this thread!
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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    ...come on, we need some more levity in this thread!
    Be careful what you ask for.
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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post

    Nobody has the right to tell you how you feel.
    Now isn't that ironic. ...Here I have people telling me that "I feel hatred".


    If I were arrogant I wouldn't bother to make my case here. I could simply throw every retaliatory post in the garbage disposal, shut my eyes and turn the switch on. I'm not that selfish, I do care about the subject because MSam is currently on the Rams list of players. Instead, there are some here that COME ACROSS AS POSTERS WITH A GREAT DEAL OF HATRED towards me because of my convictions, faith and/or point of view.


    Close minded? "Right".


    "...Maybe you're closed minded" [ In Tommy Boy's style of observation ].



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    Re: The Official Michael Sam "Off-the-Field" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RealRam View Post
    Now isn't that ironic. ...Here I have people telling me that "I feel hatred".
    For someone who claims to be well-read, you don't read well.

    I didn't tell you how you feel, I told you how people here are perceiving your comments.

    If I were arrogant I wouldn't bother to make my case here. I could simply throw every retaliatory post in the garbage disposal, shut my eyes and turn the switch on. I'm not that selfish, I do care about the subject because MSam is currently on the Rams list of players. Instead, there are some here that COME ACROSS AS POSTERS WITH A GREAT DEAL OF HATRED towards me because of my convictions, faith and/or point of view.
    I'll simply speak for myself on this one.

    I find your comments regarding Michael Sam and homosexuals to be disgusting.

    I find your words to be the antithesis of the "love" you profess to have for your neighbor.

    I find your weighing of sins, some which you seem to excuse or at least tolerate, and some that you condemn, to be inappropiate.

    And, perhaps the most pointed thing I can say to you is this:

    If you think your "acceptance" of me as a Jew (a person who rejects key components of your faith) and "rejection" of Michael Sam as a homosexual provides me with any solice whatsoever, you are wrong. Quite frankly, I'd rather you be consistent and openly reject me as you reject him, rather than acting in an hypocritical manner by tolerating my "sins" while condemning his.

    If you have a shred of introspection, I'd hope that you'd consider my reaction to your comments and reconsider your method of communication. Again, let me be clear, I am not asking you to reconsider your beliefs. I am asking you to think about the way you are conveying those beliefs.

    Or don't...

    In the end, its your choice. If you want to live with the fact that many people who have considered you an excellent member of this site over the years now have a decidedly negative opinion of you, that's your business.

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