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Thread: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zgare View Post
    Here we go again. I travel to LA frequently and I detect little or no interest from the folks I work with for any sports in LA.
    The folks you work with? That's what you're basing your opinion on? There are 4 million people in LA, and 18 million in the LA metropolitan area. How many folks do you work with and talk sports? Not sure your sample size qualifies as a legitimate basis for making the case that LA has no interest in sports.

    Quote Originally Posted by zgare View Post
    So I question your data on St Louis, and I have data on LA that makes me question willingness to spring for season tickets, especially if the team is poor for another 10 years.
    Okay. you have your data on LA, based on a few casual discussions. Once again (I gave you this data in another thread ), I'll give you the factual data on sports in LA ---

    Clippers/2013-14 - 100.7 attendance %
    Lakers/2013-14 - 99.2 attendance %
    Dodgers/2013 - 82.5 attendance % (6th best % in MLB, #1 in total attendance)
    Kings/2013-14 - 109.7 attendance %

    Figures from ESPN

    So.......can we all agree the FACTS show LA is a strong sports town, and stop with this ridiculous notion that "LA is just not that into sports."?
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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    jjigga -
    I've been thinking about the following post, and finally believe I can reply to this in a manner that will show just how ridiculous it is to speculate or believe a hunch.
    Quote Originally Posted by jjigga3000 View Post
    The same way that Cops build a case against a suspect that they have no evidence or proof against. It's called a hunch or speculation, they can only hold the suspect for so long and have to let them go unless that have strong facts. Depending on how you look at it and what side you stand on, you can draw a conclusion either way.

    L.A. fans have a different perspective than you St Louis Fans do. But your problem is you say they're wrong, in their summation, but they have every right to feel the same way you do. That my friend is where you err in judgement. To take it further you make stealthy insults. So as I've stated, My speculation is just as strong as yours because you have no proof they're staying other than they haven't made a move to leave, they have plenty of time to make a decision. So for every argument you make I have a counter argument, and that will happen until either one us can't make such statements.
    Let's examine:

    1. When Stan Kroenke bought 40% of the Rams, the purchase hinged on the Rams moving to St. Louis - no move, no sale.
    2. In 2013, the Rams spent several million dollars upgrading Rams park - including a new building, and a solar energy system which will not reach the "break even" point for several years.
    3. The Rams will be able to lease the EJD for only $50,000 (either per game or per season, not sure which) after this season. That's not only dirt cheap, it's cheaper than any other lease in the NFL...and once the Rams go year-to-year, the EJD can't raise that price.
    4. Last year, every player on the Rams participated in some type of community involvement.
    5. Last November, a group was formed to keep the Rams in St. Louis. Since then, the group has grown from under 100 people to over 14,000 - and even the Rams players are getting involved by recording a song to help raise awareness.
    6. According to information I have seen, season ticket sales are actually higher this year than in the past few years.

    Now, think about this:
    1. Stan Kroenke is worth somewhere around $5 billion. His wife is worth another $7 billion or so. If Stan were wanting to move the Rams to LA, wouldn't he have purchased a larger piece of land in a better location to build a stadium? He could afford it, after all.
    2. The NFL has strict rules concerning a team moving from one market to another. These rules are in part the result of the Rams moving to St. Louis. It's not as easy as most people think. I have friends who live in the LA area, and most of them are aware that the Rams wouldn't be able to move just because someone wants them to - however, a few of them seem to think that all it takes is some guy making homemade cardboard signs and spreading a few lies. Here's a link to SOME of the NFL requirements to move a team from one market to another. http://www.leg.state.mn.us/webconten...ationRules.pdf
    3. The 2014 NFL owner's meeting just ended - and there is not one single mention of Los Angeles, team moves, or anything else that would indicate the Rams are not staying put.

    I don't know how California police operate, but I do know how they operate in Missouri (my father and brother both retired from the State Patrol). Here, "hunches" don't fly. Before a suspect can be taken into custody, they must show probable cause, and cannot hold a subject without evidence.

    According to my friends in California, the only indications that they have seen that the Rams are moving are:
    1. Stan owns 60 acres in Inglewood. He also owns land of comparable size in Springfield, MO; Columbia, MO; England; and many other places, so this is pretty much a non-indication.
    2. He owns Dodi Fayed's former Malibu vacation home. He bought this in 1997 - long before he gained 100% ownership of the team, so this is also a non-indication.

    As you can see, there really isn't any evidence that indicates the Rams have any interest in LA other than the speculation of sportswriters trying to raise their following. Nothing has been said by the NFL indicating the Rams have expressed interest in leaving the St. Louis market, nor have the Rams stated anything.

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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    1. When Stan Kroenke bought 40% of the Rams, the purchase hinged on the Rams moving to St. Louis - no move, no sale.
    Show your facts for this. Also that mover was 20 years ago, a lot of things change, just because he moved doesn't mean he doesn't want to move back. Not a strong enough arg
    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    2. In 2013, the Rams spent several million dollars upgrading Rams park - including a new building, and a solar energy system which will not reach the "break even" point for several years.
    This means nothing, Stan owns that property wouldn't you upgrade you property and facilities to make it worth more, even more so if you plan on selling.
    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    3. The Rams will be able to lease the EJD for only $50,000 (either per game or per season, not sure which) after this season. That's not only dirt cheap, it's cheaper than any other lease in the NFL...and once the Rams go year-to-year, the EJD can't raise that price.
    And??? You do realize, whether buying or leasing a stadium in L.A., that Stan has the opportunity for way more joint ventures and endorsements for the franchise. Not to mention a new stadium would attract actual concerts. Stan wouldn't move into a stadium without sharing in profits form the stadium. He would actually lose money staying in St Louis, by losing out on opportunities that present themselves in the number 2 market in the United States. Los Angeles by itself is ranked 21 in the Global economy, above the country of Sweden at number 22.
    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    4. Last year, every player on the Rams participated in some type of community involvement.
    Thats standard for any player on a professional sports team, it would be no different for the Rams
    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    5. Last November, a group was formed to keep the Rams in St. Louis. Since then, the group has grown from under 100 people to over 14,000 - and even the Rams players are getting involved by recording a song to help raise awareness.
    I don't doubt that there are Rams players that might want to stay in St Louis, but they don't have the final say so, and surely they don't speak for Stan. Not to mention the group to move the Rams to Los Angeles is much Larger.
    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    6. According to information I have seen, season ticket sales are actually higher this year than in the past few years.
    Of course the numbers would go up, the Rams have a better product on the field.
    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    Now, think about this:
    1. Stan Kroenke is worth somewhere around $5 billion. His wife is worth another $7 billion or so. If Stan were wanting to move the Rams to LA, wouldn't he have purchased a larger piece of land in a better location to build a stadium? He could afford it, after all.
    I don't know how many rich people you actually know, but maybe you should talk to them. They rarely get their money tied up in business venture, or rarely spend their own money for these types of transactions. They use other peoples money. A major example that everyone knows of is Frank McCourt former owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers. Best investment he ever made, he used other peoples money to make at least a billion dollars.
    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    2. The NFL has strict rules concerning a team moving from one market to another. These rules are in part the result of the Rams moving to St. Louis. It's not as easy as most people think. I have friends who live in the LA area, and most of them are aware that the Rams wouldn't be able to move just because someone wants them to - however, a few of them seem to think that all it takes is some guy making homemade cardboard signs and spreading a few lies. Here's a link to SOME of the NFL requirements to move a team from one market to another. http://www.leg.state.mn.us/webconten...ationRules.pdf
    Did you read those rules. Rule number 1 which the first rule, states and I paraphrase "that a team has to do everything within it's power to stay in the market they're in before moving for the purposes of getting a new stadium" The big elephant in the room that everyone IS talking about is the fact the EDJ is not up to snuff, which is written in the contract. Also the Rams went through the necessary procedures and won in arbitration. they've cleared that first hurdle. Stan has until the end of this season, to notify the league of his intentions, if he plans to move next season. He's not obligated to let anyone know of his intentions until he does.
    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    3. The 2014 NFL owner's meeting just ended - and there is not one single mention of Los Angeles, team moves, or anything else that would indicate the Rams are not staying put.
    See my answer to the question posed above.


    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    According to my friends in California, the only indications that they have seen that the Rams are moving are:
    1. Stan owns 60 acres in Inglewood. He also owns land of comparable size in Springfield, MO; Columbia, MO; England; and many other places, so this is pretty much a non-indication.
    2. He owns Dodi Fayed's former Malibu vacation home. He bought this in 1997 - long before he gained 100% ownership of the team, so this is also a non-indication.
    Stan is a real estate guy 1, and 2 he doesn't have to notify the NFL of any land purchases.
    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    As you can see, there really isn't any evidence that indicates the Rams have any interest in LA other than the speculation of sportswriters trying to raise their following. Nothing has been said by the NFL indicating the Rams have expressed interest in leaving the St. Louis market, nor have the Rams stated anything.
    Actually as I've always stated there's more evidence that you think, the fact that you're in denial means nothing. I will continue to state that until he makes a statement one way or another, it's all speculation.

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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    It's obvious that you don't follow the actual news of the NFL or the Rams. If you did, you would know that Stan MUST notify the NFL about ANY land purchase in Los Angeles - just as any other team owner would have to do. You also quoted rule #1, yet you did not read it carefully - "a team has to do everything within it's power to stay in the market they're in". Has this been done?
    I'm still waiting for ANY proof you have that the Rams are even considering Los Angeles. All of the facts I post can be verified with a simple google search, and I am sure others here can verify these facts.

    Once again, please provide us with ANY proof. Not hunches, speculation, rumors, or pictures of a half dozen people holding signs. I am patiently waiting, as nothing you have posted indicates you have anything other than hope to base your claims on.

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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    It's obvious that you don't follow the actual news of the NFL or the Rams. If you did, you would know that Stan MUST notify the NFL about ANY land purchase in Los Angeles.
    I stand corrected, however you stating I don't have any hard facts, is based upon your stance that you do have hard core facts. My response was proof that you don't have any facts either, and I in fact gave a firmer argument for why they would be moving, save my snafu on the purchase of Land in Los Angeles. You on the other hand have given weak arguments. But the point is neither on any side knows for sure. Only Stan knows his true intentions. By the way on arguments like this you'll lose every time. My uncles a Judge and almost became an attorney. But decided against it. My point, I like to argue.

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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jjigga3000 View Post
    I stand corrected, however you stating I don't have any hard facts, is based upon your stance that you do have hard core facts. My response was proof that you don't have any facts either, and I in fact gave a firmer argument for why they would be moving, save my snafu on the purchase of Land in Los Angeles. You on the other hand have given weak arguments. But the point is neither on any side knows for sure. Only Stan knows his true intentions. By the way on arguments like this you'll lose every time. My uncles a Judge and almost became an attorney. But decided against it. My point, I like to argue.
    I can tell - you're pretty good at arguing.

    Why don't we just agree that as of right now, there is NO compelling evidence that the Rams are moving nor is there any that says the Rams will be staying in St. Louis after 2016? That's the first year they could move according to the rules of the NFL. Yes, I know their lease is up after this season, but it still takes 2 years to get the ball rolling after a team expresses intent to look into a move...

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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    That's what I've been saying all along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by macrammer View Post
    you can question my "data" on St Louis all you want. I know what I saw and made a point of asking every St Louis person I came in contact with in the downtown area and the only word that came to mind was apathy. And I do not care where they play. By virtue of the fact that the Rams are still and will always be my team. But lack of local fan interest and a venue that needs some work are potential reasons for a move. If st louis does not want the Rams to move support them without fail and get some upgrades to the ED or build a new stadium.
    As I said, I have two season tickets to the Rams and 1/4 of 2 season tickets to the Cardinals. What LA teams do you have season tickets to? Any of you? Or are you more TV freeloaders who don't buy season tickets?
    ZGare

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    Quote Originally Posted by macrammer View Post
    you can question my "data" on St Louis all you want. I know what I saw and made a point of asking every St Louis person I came in contact with in the downtown area and the only word that came to mind was apathy. And I do not care where they play. By virtue of the fact that the Rams are still and will always be my team. But lack of local fan interest and a venue that needs some work are potential reasons for a move. If st louis does not want the Rams to move support them without fail and get some upgrades to the ED or build a new stadium.
    The Rams fans in St Louis are not going to be the folks living on the streets downtown. Your charges are not scientific and not fair to us St Louis fans. I will be in LA next week and I could poll random folks downtown on their excitement about current LA sports. But just because a guy there can't spell Pujols there doesn't mean the angels should move out.
    ZGare

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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zgare View Post
    As I said, I have two season tickets to the Rams and 1/4 of 2 season tickets to the Cardinals. What LA teams do you have season tickets to? Any of you? Or are you more TV freeloaders who don't buy season tickets?
    You do realize that L.A. Is way more a sports town than St Louis? They have two baseball teams with better attendance than St. Louis, Dodgers rank 6. They have 2 basketball teams with full attendance. 2 Hockey Teams both who have won Championships in the past decade. An arena football team. Wnba team, you don't have that many sports team in a town that's not sports town. When the Raiders were in L.A. They sold out the Coliseum. You have a lot of transplants that root for various teams but L.A. His a huge football town, having a team in would be huge for the city of L.A. Especially if they bring a good young team.

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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    They have two baseball teams with better attendance than St. Louis, Dodgers rank 6.
    Umm, yea......scroll up from the Dodgers 6th place ranking and you will see the Cardinals ranked 2nd.

    Not saying one is more of a sports town than the other (no objective way to measure that anyway), but let's at least get our facts correct.

    That is all.
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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    Jjigga, I'd be happy to let LA have the Raiders. That way everybody is happy!

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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Umm, yea......scroll up from the Dodgers 6th place ranking and you will see the Cardinals ranked 2nd.

    Not saying one is more of a sports town than the other (no objective way to measure that anyway), but let's at least get our facts correct.

    That is all.
    But they're number 1 in capacity so you do the math. number 6 in attendance, but number 1 in capacity. Consider also the fact that they also compete with Hockey and Basketball, April, May, June, and October.

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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zgare View Post
    As I said, I have two season tickets to the Rams and 1/4 of 2 season tickets to the Cardinals. What LA teams do you have season tickets to? Any of you? Or are you more TV freeloaders who don't buy season tickets?
    Who cares? This has nothing to do with the discussion. The fact is, the LA market supports multiple teams with packed stadiums and arena's, year in, year out, regardless of W/L records. The point that LA isn't a sports town, and could not, or would not support the Rams is simply baseless.

    As far as how many of us have season tickets for LA teams, the majority of those who post here do not live in the LA area anymore. macrammer lives 6 hours away from LA in Northern California, so being a season ticket holder might be a little difficult, don't you think? He did however make the trip to St. Louis last year, as several of us from California did, to support the Rams.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjigga3000 View Post
    But they're number 1 in capacity so you do the math. number 6 in attendance, but number 1 in capacity.
    Exactly, capacity is a big part of the equation. In 2013, the Dodgers were #6 in attendance %, but #1 in total attendance, and #1 in attendance per game.

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    Re: OFFICIAL (and only) "Rams to L.A." Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jjigga3000 View Post
    But they're number 1 in capacity so you do the math. number 6 in attendance, but number 1 in capacity. Consider also the fact that they also compete with Hockey and Basketball, April, May, June, and October.
    It's not about math. It's about getting correct facts on the table. You said....
    They have two baseball teams with better attendance than St. Louis, Dodgers rank 6.
    ....the assertion being that somehow the Cards fell below that 6th ranking. When in fact, they ranked 2nd. The Dodgers sold 82.5% of their stadium. The Cards sold 94.6% of theirs.

    If now you want to switch your argument to total attendance (which would have been the better approach to begin with), then fine. The Dodgers led MLB with 46,216 per game. The Cards were 2nd with 41,602 (which also proves your "LA has two teams with better attendance than St. Louis" statement wrong). But this of course leaves open the question why a metro area that's 650% larger left so many empty seats (17.5% of their stadium).

    Personally, I think this whole argument is silly. There's no such thing as one town being more of a "sports town" than another. Just silly.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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