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Thread: One thing you might not have known

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    Re: One thing you might not have known

    Quote Originally Posted by fastcat
    he's on his back after every tackle.
    Quote Originally Posted by fastcat
    im not sayiing this happens after every tackle.
    Whatever you say.
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    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: One thing you might not have known

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcat View Post
    Its not about proper tackling. I agree though JL for the most part always wraps up which is good. BUT what it is about is him not initiating the contact... Being the HITTER not the HITTee. And it MATTERS on 2nd and 4 when a rb runs through the hole, JL hits him a yard before the 1st down maker and gets dragged/fell over for another yard and a half for a 1st down. Football is a game of inches, every yard JL gives up by being on his back is crucial. Some of you must have NEVER played ball before, or maybe were never that good at it. I cant see how anyone over looks this. The guy is always dragging a defender down after he absorbed an hit. A MLB should be falling on top of a guy after a tackle, not the other way around. Watch every tackle JL has made and you will see what i see. The eye in the sky never lies!! But to his credit he does always make tackles.

    And before anyone goes to pull up a JL highlght reel, im not sayiing this happens after every tackle. It happens often over a course of a game tho. Watch a full game and watch JL after every tackle and form your own opinion. And this is my opinion... Well its a fact just watch, lol,
    Did you see the crabtree TD in the superbowl? Two guys tried to "thump" him and bounced off. That happens too when guys go for the stopper hit.

    It sounds like the hits you are talking about come at the second level, after the running back has broken the line and is gaining speed. Truth be told, a running back in the second level will usually have the edge in terms of leverage, and momentum, and none of those guys are small and weak. I'd rather Jlau give up an extra yard every time than several touchdowns cause he tried to thump a guy and bounced off. Simple truth is, no matter how big and strong you are, it's very hard to tackle a guy by the shoulders, especially when the guy has a few steps to gather speed. You have to get the legs in that case to make sure you get the tackle, at which point it's pretty hard to stop them from getting an extra yard.

    Flashy hits don't always mean better tacklers/players.
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    No,, no, no... Hit, wrap up, and drive the ball carrier back, keep your legs moving at all times. And yes im talking about the 2nd level. I understand you cant win every battle. And the battle is already lost once you dont wrap up. And i knew someone was gonna scrutinize my wording so i did edit my 1st post (hours ago) after i said "EVERY tackle he's on his back". You can nit pick my wording all you want but you get the point, atleast i thought people were rational. Seriously, do you not see he's on his back alot after a 2nd level tackle?

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    Re: One thing you might not have known

    Quote Originally Posted by berg8309 View Post
    So does literally every single player in the league. Doesn't mean we can't appreciate Laurinitis for being a very good MLB, something we've lacked for a long time.
    Did I say I didn't appreciate him?

    Let's not go about assuming things.

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    Re: One thing you might not have known

    Levon Kirkland was a thumper of a middle linebacker, but couldn't cover. I prefer a linebacker with a better all round game, like Laurinaitis

    Vernon Davis had a total of 45 yards in his two games against the Rams this year, but had over 100 against Ray Lewis in the Superbowl.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    Levon Kirkland was a thumper of a middle linebacker, but couldn't cover. I prefer a linebacker with a better all round game, like Laurinaitis

    Vernon Davis had a total of 45 yards in his two games against the Rams this year, but had over 100 against Ray Lewis in the Superbowl.
    Kirkland played in a 3-4, thats different. JL is good in coverage but being real he couldnt cover Vernon 1 on 1. But he is a better coverage LB tho. JL is a good player, he just is who he is..... He is solid... Just slightly above average imo... Some of you just think more of him for some odd reason. Like i said he isnt a stud... You wontt find him in many pro bowl talks. And if you see him as a perinial pro bowler, i dont know what to say... Except he has never been to one. But i bet he'll make 2 or 3 someday probably

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    Re: One thing you might not have known

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    Levon Kirkland was a thumper of a middle linebacker, but couldn't cover. I prefer a linebacker with a better all round game, like Laurinaitis

    Vernon Davis had a total of 45 yards in his two games against the Rams this year, but had over 100 against Ray Lewis in the Superbowl.
    You could see why Ray Lewis was retiring, he was a shadow of his former self. He looked slow the entire game. He wouldn't have had much of a chance covering Kendricks, never-the-less Davis.

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    Re: One thing you might not have known

    Led the league in solo tackles....
    #2 MLB in total tackles....
    only defensive player in the league to play every snap....
    field general and locker room leader....

    ....but yea, he's just an average run-of-the-mill MLB in this league. A dime a dozen.

    This is the Maddenization of the NFL. The "knockout" blow is valued over truly valuable characteristics.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: One thing you might not have known

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcat View Post
    No,, no, no... Hit, wrap up, and drive the ball carrier back, keep your legs moving at all times. And yes im talking about the 2nd level. I understand you cant win every battle. And the battle is already lost once you dont wrap up. And i knew someone was gonna scrutinize my wording so i did edit my 1st post (hours ago) after i said "EVERY tackle he's on his back". You can nit pick my wording all you want but you get the point, atleast i thought people were rational. Seriously, do you not see he's on his back alot after a 2nd level tackle?
    I guess I'd have to ask then how many other MLBs you see who are able to make a flat stop at the second level on a regular basis? I don't watch other teams that often, so I don't know, but it seems to me once a runner reaches the second level, unless they are a rams player going against the ref, they are pretty hard to stop dead in their tracks.

    I'd also like to add that Mike Jones gave up another yard on "The Tackle"
    Last edited by berg8309; -02-07-2013 at 10:41 AM.

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    Re: One thing you might not have known

    Quote Originally Posted by berg8309 View Post
    Did you see the crabtree TD in the superbowl? Two guys tried to "thump" him and bounced off. That happens too when guys go for the stopper hit.

    <snip>

    Flashy hits don't always mean better tacklers/players.
    Unless your goal is to be a better "ESPN Highlight" player.

    I agree with Berg, but I have to comment that Crabtree only stayed on his feet because of the second thumper's hit. Of course, this adds to the above. If either guy goes for a wrap-up tackle, that play doesn't end with 6 points.


    gap

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    Quote Originally Posted by berg8309 View Post

    I guess I'd have to ask then how many other MLBs you see who are able to make a flat stop at the second level on a regular basis? I don't watch other teams that often, so I don't know, but it seems to me once a runner reaches the second level, unless they are a rams player going against the ref, they are pretty hard to stop dead in their tracks.

    I'd also like to add that Mike Jones gave up another yard on "The Tackle"
    Next season just pay attention to the LB play of any team weather its college or pro. You will see plenty of flat out stops in thee 2nd level. You will see missed tackles,, and you will see people on their backs. And you are right about a playeer in the 2nd level is hard to stop for a guy like me and you but those guys are trained to do it. You will see alot of "knockout" shots but over look them. Watch the guy that consistantly hits, wraps up, stands up, and drives the ball carrier back. Then watch JL and see the difference. In a crucial situation, im just saying JL is the last person i want to see making a tackle on the defensive side of the LOS.

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    Re: One thing you might not have known

    Isn't Patrick Willis meant to be the current king of the MLBs? What happened to that flat out stop when he met Steven Jackson?
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    Re: One thing you might not have known

    Quote Originally Posted by gap View Post
    Unless your goal is to be a better "ESPN Highlight" player.

    I agree with Berg, but I have to comment that Crabtree only stayed on his feet because of the second thumper's hit. Of course, this adds to the above. If either guy goes for a wrap-up tackle, that play doesn't end with 6 points.


    gap
    The problem was they both wanted to knock the ball out of his hands while he was catching it instead of tackling him. Clearly it didn't work.

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    Re: One thing you might not have known

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcat View Post
    He is just not what i envision as a MlB, he's on his back after alot of tackle.


    I guess this is a really rare photo, right?

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    Re: One thing you might not have known

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcat View Post
    Next season just pay attention to the LB play of any team weather its college or pro. You will see plenty of flat out stops in thee 2nd level. You will see missed tackles,, and you will see people on their backs. And you are right about a playeer in the 2nd level is hard to stop for a guy like me and you but those guys are trained to do it. You will see alot of "knockout" shots but over look them. Watch the guy that consistantly hits, wraps up, stands up, and drives the ball carrier back. Then watch JL and see the difference. In a crucial situation, im just saying JL is the last person i want to see making a tackle on the defensive side of the LOS.
    This doesn't make sense to me. Guys are trained to tackle, which means going for the legs if that's the only shot you have. Also, although the LBs may generally be bigger than RBs, the RB is also trained to lower his shoulder and bowl into the LB, which makes it pretty darn hard to stand him up and throw him backward. Impossible? No, but it isn't easy even for LBs. It's not like it's you and me running into them.

    Unfortunately I'm afraid I can't take your word for it that it's pretty common for LBs to just stuff RBs at the second level in the pros. I'll have to see it to believe it, but I'll be watching.

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