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  1. #16
    Fargo Ram Fan's Avatar
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    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    Hind sight is 20/20. IN THE HEAT OF THE ACTION he grabbed the official(amidst a group of players) and he hit the deck. How did they KNOW of intent etc if none of them were looking DIRECTLY at the incident when it occurred? ALL they knew(apparently) was Pace grabbed the guy and DOWN HE WENT. This (a PENALTY situation) is NOT reviewable by replay...they did what they had to do. No reason to cry and whine. The big guy has to be more aware and not GRAB an official...intent or NOT. Not sure Ive ever seen a lineman bring down an official by grabbing him and pulling him down before this so this isnt exactly like 'making contact' with an official inadvertantly during the course of a play. He may not have 'struck' the guy but he GRABBED HIM AND HE WENT DOWN. They simply cant allow things like that to happen. I can understand and ACCEPT it...why cant YOU? I almost forgot...they were "picking on the Rams"...lmao!


  2. #17
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    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    _Quote_________________
    {The definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...Run the ball Mike!...} I beg to differ with you on this subject about running the ball. Yes we need a running game but the Rams seem to do so much better when the work backwards to convential thinking and establish the run by throwing the ball first and then running. Yes it was total BS for throwing Pace out of the game just hope and pray he is not suspended as he is certainly our best (by miles) offensive lineman. Was a very good game which I enjoyed from my cheap seats high above the rest of the fans in good ole section 426!!!!!!!!!!
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Navy]woodyramfan1

  3. #18
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Fargo Ram Fan
    How did they KNOW of intent etc if none of them were looking DIRECTLY at the incident when it occurred?
    If there was any question about intent, which seems to be a key component of this call, then he shouldn't have been ejected.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fargo Ram Fan
    He may not have 'struck' the guy but he GRABBED HIM AND HE WENT DOWN. They simply cant allow things like that to happen.
    If they can't allow things like that to happen, then they need to alter the rule book so what was enforced today actually falls in it. According to the information on the NFL's own website, Pace's actions should not warrant ejection. It's as simple as that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fargo Ram Fan
    I can understand and ACCEPT it...why cant YOU?
    Perhaps because the rules are telling me I shouldn't? I dunno, that seems like a fair argument to me.
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  4. #19
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    Furthermore, if you watch the replay, the flag doesn't come out until after the ref goes down and after Pace gets into a shoving contest with a Seahawk player. Then another ref - not the one who was grounded - comes in and separates them, then throws the flag.

    Something's fishy here, IMO.
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  5. #20
    general counsel Guest

    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    Outstanding point nick, i suggest that before people quote the rule, they actually read it.

    general counsel

  6. #21
    general counsel Guest

    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    Furthermore, my point has nothing to do with the call being unfair per se to the rams. IE, i am not contending that the refs were "out to get the rams." If walter jones were ejected on the exact same call, i would still say that the refs made one of the worst judgement calls i have seen in years.

    general counsel

  7. #22
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    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    Rule says you can't put your hands on an official. I don't think Pace meant to grab the official but a rule is a rule.

    Now if he gets fined or suspended then I'll be ready to bust some heads.

  8. #23
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by ZigZagRam
    Rule says you can't put your hands on an official.
    Where then? Because I just quoted NFL.com and the rule is more defined than just putting your hands on an official. If there's more to the rule than that, can you show me where? Because I couldn't find it.
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  9. #24
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    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    If the rules say and I can assure you am not exactly sure what the rules say that if a player is falling down and touches a official than they need to be changed so as to allow some judgement on the part of the official to not enforce a rule such as that.
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Navy]woodyramfan1

  10. #25
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    Re: Pace ejection was wrong

    300 lbs. or 1 ton, it doesn't matter. Again, it was non-intentional, i.e,. accidental. Period.

    The fact that things were heated at that point, in that area, does not make anyone guilty of bumping and throwing an official down. There was no argument on the part of Pace against any official that could have beeen construed as an aggression on behalf of the player.

    Refs made a wrong call. An unwarranted ejection. Simple.

  11. #26
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    Bernie on the Pace ejection:

    Pace said: "I was as stunned as anyone else. I was just trying to hold myself up. Guys were kind of pushing me. I didn't see the ref there, and I was trying to keep my balance. I guess the official didn't see that. It's just one of those things. It's an unfortunate situation. I'd never try to intentionally hit a referee, or anything like that. I was just trying to keep my balance."

    the rule (I am told) says no contact with the officials....but this clearly was an accident.

    Pace got a raw deal.

    Referee Bill Leavy: "I was the covering official coming up from behind the play. I observed the scuffle near the pile. I observed Pace stick out an arm and pull the side judge (Don Carlson) down to the ground, then scuffle with another player. I got in between them at the time and told (Pace) because of the contact he had made with the official, he was going to be ejected."

    Is it an automatic ejection?

    Leavy: "If it is inadvertent contact, it would not be an ejection. If there is contact involving something irregular, then there would be a cause for ejection."


    On the replays showing Pace was pushed:

    Leavy: "I did not see that and made my decision on what I observed."

    Cheers,
    Bernie

    We've got our answer.
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  12. #27
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    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    You would think that the officials would use the technology available before making critical calls, such as this one. Part of the problem is that the errors in calls from the officials are SO obvious to the fans since we see the replays in slow motion, over and over.

    I would hope the rules would change and the officials would be required to review their own calls in critical situations. The technology is there.

    Thankfully, getting Pace evicted from the game, fired up the Rams and probably helped them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  13. #28
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    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Fargo Ram Fan
    I almost forgot...they were "picking on the Rams"...lmao!
    I don't know that I would go so far as to say that the refs were deliberately out to "pick on the Rams." But considering how they ruled on the field, and after the benefit of replay, it was apparent to me that the Rams were going to have to overcome Seattle AND the refs.

    It still escapes me how the refs could insist that momentum didn't carry Butler into the endzone on the INT. What is possession? Was it necessary to challenge it at that time? No. But I don't fault Mike for doing it. He got robbed of a challenge and a TO.

    Then how long must a player have possession in the endzone in order to establish possession? McDonald had the ball, was on his ass and didn't lose the ball from the shoulder hit. He lost the ball when the LB's knee hit the ball after the initial contact had been absorbed. Mike got robbed of a challenge and a TO again.

    The main ref announcing the calls "knew" this as evidenced by his voice breaking and the fact that he couldn't articulate the results with any conviction. The 1st challenge was disallowed because the receiver had both feet down in the field when he caught it. No. To me clear possession wasn't established until his 2nd foot came down in the endzone.

    And Pace's ejection? He was shoved. People were at his feet. It was inadvertant. A penalty for shoving the Seattle player? Maybe. But not an ejection.

    The refs may not have been out to "get" the Rams. But their incompetence should result in their termination. No other team should be subjected to their
    incompetence. It is a wonder the Rams won despite having to play against two opponents at the same time.

  14. #29
    general counsel Guest

    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    Bottom Line- As Nick says, based on the comment by the ref, that he didnt see that it was inadvertent,it is 100% a blown call. The key is what the rule actually says, not what people thought the rule was or the commentators on TV. The rule does not call for an ejection for inadvertent contact, end of story.
    The rule does not say ANY CONTACT with an official.

    Simple review would have made this clear and the impact of this play on the game called for a review, if nothing else.

    general counsel

  15. #30
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    Re: Pace ejection was bull.....your thoughts

    I was pretty irrate with the officiating on a few plays yesterday. The interception being called down at the 1 was ridiculous to me. If they're going to call plays like that down the inch then what's the point? It's not like the Ram(Fisher?) was tackled after intercepting the ball. He could have ran it out of the end zone but was giving himself up because he was in the end zone. It was a smart play by him. For the officials to get that tight-assed about a call like that was really irritating to me.

    Secondly, if they are going to be that precise, I thought the Shawn(hang on to the damn ball!)McDonald td review, technically could have been called a td. He had posession when his knee hit the ground(I thought) and didn't start to lose control until after his knee had hit. Technically, shouldn't that be a td? Don't get me wrong. Live-speed it was not a catch and McDonald shouldn't have dropped it. BUT, if the ref's are going to be so nit-picky as to measure the interception down to the 1 inch line(somehow) then they should stay consistent and look at the reception down to the nanosecond too.

    Now, on to the Pace situation. I truly believe that Pace had no idea who he was using to balance himself. He obviously wasn't going after an official. In the middle of a play, had the same thing happened, it wouldn't even be a topic of discussion. But, since everyone was basically standing around, after the play was over, it changes things a little. In my opinion, the ref's made the right call. As much as the ref's piss me off and do a less than stellar job at calling the game sometimes, they have to be untouchable. The players should fear getting near an official and never argue with them. I think the line keeps getting more faded as the years go by and I believe it's very unfair for the officials to be expected to be as objective as possible when they have 300 lb. gorillas arguing with them about the decision that they made on a play.

    Was the Pace call a mistake? Technically, yes. But once you start introducing intent and interpretation into whether or not it's okay when an official goes down you're just asking for trouble.

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