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  1. #31
    Richbert88's Avatar
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by helorm341 View Post
    Tackles and assists are two different things, to me atleast. I wasn't talking about the two combined, which is the figure you're looking at. Assists don't tell me how good aplayer is.
    I disagree! As i stated earlier....

    "Those assists by Picket are pretty indicative of an active player in my opinion. They're closer to what you'd expect of a linebacker. Alone, they'd be specious, but combined with very high solo numbers by a DT, ............."

    Those assists indicate an active player, combined with those solo numbers, it makes Pickett a guy I am sorry is not a Ram today.

    Semper Fi!

  2. #32
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    The problem, as some people keep pointing out, is that tackles/assists give you no indication whether a guy playing NT is effective or not.

    And neither does the overall team rushing stat. Cause the problem could be something else. You need a good NT to play the run, but then, you could have a good NT and bad linebackers and so still not play the run well.

    The way to judge NT play is...to watch the guy play NT.

    That was the big test on Kennedy. Just watching him. He was, to put it mildly, gawd-awful bad at NT.

    Now was Pickett an effective NT? From what I saw, he did fine, but then, when I watched the Pickett-at-NT Rams, I wasn't focussing on him and never thought I would be in this discussion.

    I do know the coaches said he was pretty good, even under-rated. And no one said that about Kennedy so it's not just coach speak. '

    As for Green Bay...I don't think he plays NT in GB, though I'm not sure about that. GB is very low on my "pay attention to another team besides the Rams" list. I do know I read different things where analysts thought (a) he did a solid job, and (b) he was taken out on obvious passing downs.

    My general impression was that it was a mistake to keep Kennedy and not try harder to sign Pickett. But then, new coaches were coming in...they didn't know either way with either guy. And the person in charge, JZ, sure as he// wasn't going to be able to tell the new coaches whether Pickett was an effective guy. I mean---JZ can't assess player's play that way. I also remember that Haslett wanted Glover and so they basically sacrificed Pickett for Glover.

    My bet is, if they knew then what they know now about Kennedy, they would have tried harder to keep Pickett, signed Glover, and dumped Kennedy (trade or no trade).

    In the end, apparently, Haslett was just fed up with JK. It was nothing more complicated or fancier than that. Haslett and Linehan both, I suppose. Just fed up.




    ...
    Last edited by z.nrd; -06-19-2007 at 06:54 PM.

  3. #33
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    :l


    I suppose it is only fair that one suggestion deserves a responding suggestion.

    However, the notion of simply not reading something, at a site that is designed around the premiss that one person writes while the other person reads, sounds a bit odd to me. The same suggestion could be spun into "if you don't want anyone to read then don't write".

    There is also the notion that one person reads what another writes because they generally enjoy that persons passion. Perhaps they respect it as well. They might also enjoy their talent for starting topics to further that passion. And maybe, just maybe, they might try to suggest to that person that their talent might be better spent in moving on.

    I love history and what it can teach us. I love the fact that there is a "we" as in the ClanRam. However, as far as I know, "we" are all just fans. We are not consulted by the organization in almost all matters and we have zero control in preventing the organization from making or repeating mistakes.

    So, let's say, for the sake of argument, they made a mistake in letting pickett go. So be it. General behavioral science tells us that the average human makes 5 mistakes an hour in general day-to-day living. What purpose does it serve to beat a dead horse of a mistake when one had no control over the mistake to begin with and there is no control over the possibility of the same mistake being repeated? Try as one might, over and over, one can not, in any form, punish away error - not even with words.

    it's all good


    GO RAMS



    :l

  4. #34
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    :l


    I suppose it is only fair that one suggestion deserves a responding suggestion.

    However, the notion of simply not reading something, at a site that is designed around the premiss that one person writes while the other person reads, sounds a bit odd to me. The same suggestion could be spun into "if you don't want anyone to read then don't write".

    There is also the notion that one person reads what another writes because they generally enjoy that persons passion. Perhaps they respect it as well. They might also enjoy their talent for starting topics to further that passion. And maybe, just maybe, they might try to suggest to that person that their talent might be better spent in moving on.

    I love history and what it can teach us. I love the fact that there is a "we" as in the ClanRam. However, as far as I know, "we" are all just fans. We are not consulted by the organization in almost all matters and we have zero control in preventing the organization from making or repeating mistakes.

    So, let's say, for the sake of argument, they made a mistake in letting pickett go. So be it. General behavioral science tells us that the average human makes 5 mistakes an hour in general day-to-day living. What purpose does it serve to beat a dead horse of a mistake when one had no control over the mistake to begin with and there is no control over the possibility of the same mistake being repeated? Try as one might, over and over, one can not, in any form, punish away error - not even with words.

    it's all good


    GO RAMS



    :l
    People decide their own purposes while posting. Even if that purpose is to say "don't criticize the Rams for a mistake they made last year." Different people will say (genuinely puzzled) "why not? ...(??)"....and do what they want. And of course there are many other views. It is this variety of views that makes a board interesting.

  5. #35
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Some people like to start threads about Pickett and won't let him go. Its really time to move on from Pickett. I am really getting nauseated by some fans that bring up Pickett, Pickett, Pickett. Guess what our DL play sucked when he was here remember the Atlanta Game.

    2004 Playoff game they ran the ball right up the middle and we could not two hand touch them.

    The Falcons established club postseason records with 327 rushing yards (previous 192 at G.B. 1-4-03) and total points scored (previous 30 at Minnesota 1-17-99).

    The Falcons 8.18-yard per-carry average was the third-highest per-carry average in NFL postseason history: The Falcons actually broke the record in the first half of the game when they amassed an astonishing 239 yards.

    8.18 yard per carry Atlanta vs. St. Louis, 2004 NFC Divisional Playoff (40-327)
    Pickett had just 4 tackles and I could have drove my car in the holes between our DTs. We lost because they ran the ball right down our throat.


    No one here will say Kennedy is better then Pickett was. However I don't think anyone can say that Carriker will not pass Pickett as the better DT one day and maybe even this year. Lets all move on from the Pickett issue. I will give you our play at DT went down but we sucked with and without Pickett he was not the solution. That may have been a mistake for last year but this year if Carriker plays up to his potential we might findout we are better with Carriker then we were with Pickett.

    Even if you want to call that a mistake. We have made many good moves under Linehan and few bad moves. Lets be happy we are making more good then bad moves.

    Lets not spend another full year talking about a guy that is not here. We have people that get tired of talking about Jenkins and that has been going on about 3 months and everyone knows there is a chance he will be leaving his team to go somewhere. At least he has a shot at coming here. So time would be better spent not talking about Pickett for the next two or three years. We have already beat that dead horse.

  6. #36
    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    :l


    Oh yeah, that is what I meant to say.

    Thank you for clearing that up, z.nrd, you are so helpful

    By the way - I meant to tell you yesterday evening - However, I ran short on time.

    Anyways, without further ado:

    It is so lovely to see that you have mastered the technique involved with the site feature of quoting an entire post.

    Keep up the good work!!


    it's all good

    GO RAMS


    :l

  7. #37
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    When I looked at the title of the thread I just knew GC would be responsible

    We've gone head to head about this before my friend and we shall again. Before we do however, I will concede that out of the rash (This is an apt collective noun for this bunch of underachievers) of first day DT's that we collected, he was the best of them. No argument there whatsoever. I had a liking for Kennedy, who I had hoped would come good in the last two years of his contract but that hope disappeared last year as he utterly failed once again to make an impact on the field.

    Pickett too failed to make an impact that a first day pick merits in my view. He was considered a reach at the time and played as a reach over the length of his tenure with the Rams. He enjoyed a good contract year in terms of tackles made but his personal achievements didn't contribute to a collective achievment for his unit. This may be unfair in the sense that it may look like I'm holding him individually responsible for a collective failing, my point is however, that our run defense over the years he was here was just as porous as it is now. Aside from the tackle count, he did little else.

    There would also be the point that DT's are often judged by tackles that others make rather than tackles they make themselves. We often talk of the 'wide-bodied', 'Gap-swallowing' DT that eats space to enable the backers to make plays. To talk of worth purely in terms of tackles can be misleading however and so I remain sceptical of Picketts worth to the Rams. I'm just not convinced.

    In terms of debates, this is one of the better ones posted by one of the better human beings on this board, so its a pleasure to think about these things once more. I've adjusted my position slightly with the benefit of hindsight but still feel that Pickett not being re-signed was a fair move at the time.
    Last edited by Fat Pang; -06-19-2007 at 11:39 PM. Reason: Comma shy.

  8. #38
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    :l


    Oh yeah, that is what I meant to say.

    Thank you for clearing that up, z.nrd, you are so helpful

    By the way - I meant to tell you yesterday evening - However, I ran short on time.

    Anyways, without further ado:

    It is so lovely to see that you have mastered the technique involved with the site feature of quoting an entire post.

    Keep up the good work!!


    it's all good

    GO RAMS


    :l
    And yet, you focussing on me aside, it's still the variety of views that make a board interesting.

  9. #39
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang View Post
    but still feel that Pickett not being re-signed was a fair move at the time.
    I don't. The coaches were new, they didn't know the players. Linehan and Haslett didn't have much to go on. So really can't blame THEM. That aside, anyone on the team with any real insight into the team and its play would have seen immediately that Pickett was a better player than Kennedy. And that's true no matter how mediocre someone might think Pickett is.

    I think it was a blunder. But, with the new coaches in place plus Softli, they will be in a much better position to judge who to keep and who not to in the future.

  10. #40
    Fat Pang's Avatar
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd View Post
    I don't. The coaches were new, they didn't know the players. Linehan and Haslett didn't have much to go on. So really can't blame THEM. That aside, anyone on the team with any real insight into the team and its play would have seen immediately that Pickett was a better player than Kennedy. And that's true no matter how mediocre someone might think Pickett is.

    I think it was a blunder. But, with the new coaches in place plus Softli, they will be in a much better position to judge who to keep and who not to in the future.
    If only everything could be viewed with certainty born of hindsight then there would be no room for discussion or debate now would there? Immediate decisions that bear no risk of failure don't exist in any industry, let alone football.

    Fact remains that our run defence was appalling with him installed at NT, despite the very laudable tackle numbers he posted. It was on this basis that the team was reluctant to pony up the dollars and let him explore the FA market, entirely reasonable in my view. Kennedy had a couple of years yet to run on his contract and had suffered through a couple of injury plagued seasons that were enough to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    In my humble opinion, neither player could or would provide the answer that their draft position suggests the Rams thought they should be. That neither is on the roster right now bears this out. Quite simply their level of play was not of the standard that deserved an extended stay.

    And so it was entirely reasonable for Pickett to be given the chance to entertain Green bay and subsequently sign him.

  11. #41
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang View Post
    Quite simply their level of play was not of the standard that deserved an extended stay.
    I can't buy into this statement though, FP. If the Rams felt Pickett's level of play wasn't of the standard that deserved an extended stay, then they wouldn't have offered him an extension, which they did.

    In fact, Linehan was even quoted as saying he was high on Pickett and "if there was anything we could do to get him back, I would certainly entertain the idea" [Wagoner, March 2006].
    Last edited by Nick; -06-20-2007 at 02:28 AM.
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  12. #42
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I can't buy into this statement though, FP. If the Rams felt Pickett's level of play wasn't of the standard that deserved an extended stay, then they wouldn't have offered him an extension, which they did.

    In fact, Linehan was even quoted as saying he was high on Pickett and "if there was anything we could do to get him back, I would certainly entertain the idea" .
    The question about the offered extension certainly muddies the water but I just feel that it reflects the debate we're currently having. Pickett was without doubt the best of an indifferent crop and had a good last couple of years but the level of the tender didn't betray unquestioned faith in him.

    You have to take Linehans comments at face value in the absence of conflicting evidence, but they still seem less than effusive.

    Personally, (and I think I'm right in saying this, but if not I'll fall on my literary sword ) at the time I pressed for him to be re-signed at a level commensurate with his performance and would have been comfortable with that, but didn't see any value in a contract of the magnitude he was asking for. Did his performance in GB change my mind any? No, but it didn't make me feel any less about him either.

    I thought he was servicable at a time when we needed a lot more than that.

  13. #43
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I can't buy into this statement though, FP. If the Rams felt Pickett's level of play wasn't of the standard that deserved an extended stay, then they wouldn't have offered him an extension, which they did.

    In fact, Linehan was even quoted as saying he was high on Pickett and "if there was anything we could do to get him back, I would certainly entertain the idea" [Wagoner, March 2006].
    Well, JZ mighta offered more money. And made it clear he was wanted.

    Pickett would have been a better NT than Kennedy was. The former coaches spoke well of his play, and outside observers in GB describle his play as solid. Solid would have been a nice contribution.

  14. #44
    Bar-bq's Avatar
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Amen to all of this. Ryan Pickett was more proven a player than anyone we've had in the horns in the last 3 years. I regard it as Linehan's only mistake in compiling this team since he began his tenure.

  15. #45
    helorm341 is offline Registered User
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd View Post
    I don't. The coaches were new, they didn't know the players. Linehan and Haslett didn't have much to go on. So really can't blame THEM. That aside, anyone on the team with any real insight into the team and its play would have seen immediately that Pickett was a better player than Kennedy. And that's true no matter how mediocre someone might think Pickett is.

    I think it was a blunder. But, with the new coaches in place plus Softli, they will be in a much better position to judge who to keep and who not to in the future.

    Saying he was better then Kennedy isn't saying much.

    But I was kind of puzzled to when they didn't resign him. I expected to hear something(conclusive) about him not wanting to come back, or the Rams not offering him enough money to keep him but nothing like that ever came out. I think it was a mistake but then again I don't think it's anything to agonize over.
    Last edited by helorm341; -06-20-2007 at 05:28 AM.

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