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  1. #46
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Pickett is good for Tackles but he hardly has any sacks. Last season, alone, Glover was .5 of a Sack short ( ) of Pickett's Career Total. Rogers also had 3 more Sacks than Pickett last season, and played in 10 fewer games. Tommie had 5 last season, again, almost as much as Pickett's career total and played in 4 fewer games. Sure he's good, and we could have used him to help our tackling, which we really needed but he's not better than Rogers or Harris.


  2. #47
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by Milan View Post
    Pickett is good for Tackles but he hardly has any sacks. Last season, alone, Glover was .5 of a Sack short ( ) of Pickett's Career Total. Rogers also had 3 more Sacks than Pickett last season, and played in 10 fewer games. Tommie had 5 last season, again, almost as much as Pickett's career total and played in 4 fewer games. Sure he's good, and we could have used him to help our tackling, which we really needed but he's not better than Rogers or Harris.
    I think the sacks stat from a NT has been pretty well covered in the earlier evolution of this topic.

    However, to beat the horse a bit more, wouldn't it have been interesting to see Pickett at NT with Spoon at MLB, and the improved saftey play of the '07 defense? Seems hard to "imagine" that he doesn't make that '07 defense better. Now please excuse me, I've got some spilt mild to lap up.
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  3. #48
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    i dont know how you can say that at this point he isnt better than rogers when you look at the last two years of production, take into account injuries, to say nothing of the steroid issues with rogers. I find it difficult to believe that at this point, any nfl gm would rather have rogers than pickett. Historically, i agree with you, but i am talking about the here and the now. Is rogers a better pass rusher? Yes. Is he a better all around defensive tackle, no. Is he more consistent? no. Is he more durable? No. Is he improving? No. Pickett gets the nod on all of those counts. On tommie harris, as i said in the initial post, i am not saying that pickett is better than harris. However, to even talk about pickett and harris in the same sentance makes my point, which is that letting pickett walk away to put all our eggs in the kennedy basket when pickett wasnt asking for huge money made no sense at all.

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  4. #49
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by Milan View Post
    Pickett is good for Tackles but he hardly has any sacks.
    But nose tackles aren't supposed to be sack machines. Go back and look at the stat numbers I posted for other nose tackles across the league. It's pretty unfair to compare him to guys like La'Roi Glover and Tommie Harris since both of them are pass rushing under tackles, not nose tackles.

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    i dont know how you can say that at this point he isnt better than rogers when you look at the last two years of production, take into account injuries, to say nothing of the steroid issues with rogers. I find it difficult to believe that at this point, any nfl gm would rather have rogers than pickett.
    I don't. In fact, on ability alone I'd take Rogers every day of the week. The only reason there would be any hesitation for a GM to go with Rogers is the off the field stuff and some recent injuries. But in terms of ability and what he can do on the field, Rogers wins hands down IMO.
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  5. #50
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    But nick, since when do nfl gms ignore injuries and off the field issues like steroid suspensions? Talent alone doesnt get it done in the nfl, and thats why randy moss gets traded for a 4th round pick.

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  6. #51
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    But nick, since when do nfl gms ignore injuries and off the field issues like steroid suspensions? Talent alone doesnt get it done in the nfl, and thats why randy moss gets traded for a 4th round pick.
    Obviously they don't ignore it, but they clearly don't stop pursuing those players either simply because they've been in some trouble. Moss was still sought after for a mid round pick, and even Terrell Owens continues to find destinations in Philadelphia and Dallas even though many consider him a locker room cancer. Teams are willing to look the other way on negatives if what they're getting is elite on the field talent, and that's what Rogers brings. I think that if both Rogers and Pickett somehow hit the market at the same time, the demand for Rogers and his maximum contract payout would be much greater. If he can stay healthy (which wasn't really much of a problem for him until last year) and stay out of trouble, you're getting one of the top DTs in the league. With Pickett, you're getting a decent above average guy, but not on the same level in terms of ability as some of the better DTs in this league IMO.
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  7. #52
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    The way I look at it is this: Pickett signed a four year deal. Let's assume we could have gotten him for the same amount of time. Now in year one of the deal, it'd be hard to argue that we wouldn't have been better off with Pickett. I don't think we can expect Carriker to outperform Pickett in Carriker's first year ever playing the position, so I'd say the defense would be in better shape for year two with Pickett as well. By year three, we could cut him and split the cap hit between the final two years of the contract if he proved to be expendable.

    Now you could argue that hindsight is 20-20, but the thing is that looking back, we can also see that the team didn't really have a plan to replace his production. I mean you would think if we were going to let Pickett--the starter--leave, it was because we had a plan to get comparable if not improved production from that position: it could be that we felt certain we could sign a better NT in free agency or that we planned on doing whatever we had to to get our man in the draft or that we had a solid player sitting behind him on the depth chart. But we knew who the free agents were going to be, and we didn't like them. We could have taken Ngata or any other nose tackle in last year's draft, but we didn't. In fact, by the time we took Dominique Byrd with our 5th pick of the day, the only nose tackle that was off the board was Haloti Ngata. We still could have gotten any other NT we thought had potential. Four other defensive tackles (including Claude Wroten) had been taken, but they were all primarily pass-rushers. We brought a couple guys in for visits after the draft, but even then our interest appeared to be pretty tepid.

    Instead we filled the hole with a guy playing out of position. That's the plan this year, too. People will say that the team just wasn't high on the guys who were available, but the team doesn't seem to be high on any nose tackle period. It seems like whoever was calling the shots here figured anyone can play the position. Except we don't seem to like fat guys for the job.

  8. #53
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    I appreciate that some people dont want to talk about pickett anymore and dont want to read about him. That is certainly their perogative. My suggestion is that you dont waste your time reading the threads or responding to them. No one is forcing you to do so.

    For those same people, i wish i had a nickel for everytime someone mentions our drafting history and guys we should go after that are on other teams. The idea that the only thing that we should talk about is the present and guys presently on the roster does not make sense at all to me. What does make sense to me is that each individual member on this board has the right to participate in whatever he wants to participate in. If you dont like the topic, ignore it, why criticize others for discussing it. Tell me how it has any impact of any kind on you to see others talking about something that you dont want to talk about and dont care about?

    The reason to look at the past is that it defines how we learn from it and avoid the same mistakes in the future. The powers of revisionist history in life and on this board are truly amazing. Our defense against the run has been awful. How we got this way is relevant to how we fix it. Again, if you dont like that, just ignore the thread.
    Speaking for myself I was not criticizing you or the thread, I was just expressing my thoughts on the subject, just as you were. I don't buy into the "don't read the thread" idea. On those lines I could say the same to you, don't read any posts in the thread that say the Pickett issue is over and let's look ahead. I wouldn't say that to anyone because it just doesn't make sense to ignore posts or threads. If someone has a thought, express it in the proper manner which I think for the most part has been done here.

    I agree, it is good to look at the past and learn from it, but there is also a time where there is nothing else to learn and just rehashing what we already all know isn't learning anything new.

    Will the new pieces fit and work, or will we still be searching? Only time will tell now.

    :l
    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    The backhanded compliments about Austin Davis are amusing.

  9. #54
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    Speaking for myself I was not criticizing you or the thread, I was just expressing my thoughts on the subject, just as you were. I don't buy into the "don't read the thread" idea. On those lines I could say the same to you, don't read any posts in the thread that say the Pickett issue is over and let's look ahead. I wouldn't say that to anyone because it just doesn't make sense to ignore posts or threads. If someone has a thought, express it in the proper manner which I think for the most part has been done here.

    I agree, it is good to look at the past and learn from it, but there is also a time where there is nothing else to learn and just rehashing what we already all know isn't learning anything new.

    Will the new pieces fit and work, or will we still be searching? Only time will tell now.

    :l
    Disagree. I say let people say what they want. If no one is interested...they won't respond. If they are interested, they will respond, and who are we to say when it's "enough"?

    Threads exist and grow because people have things to say. There's no term limit on a topic.

  10. #55
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsSB99 View Post
    Guess what our DL play sucked when he was here remember the Atlanta Game.

    2004 Playoff game they ran the ball right up the middle and we could not two hand touch them.

    The Falcons established club postseason records with 327 rushing yards (previous 192 at G.B. 1-4-03) and total points scored (previous 30 at Minnesota 1-17-99).

    The Falcons 8.18-yard per-carry average was the third-highest per-carry average in NFL postseason history: The Falcons actually broke the record in the first half of the game when they amassed an astonishing 239 yards.

    8.18 yard per carry Atlanta vs. St. Louis, 2004 NFC Divisional Playoff (40-327)
    Pickett had just 4 tackles and I could have drove my car in the holes between our DTs. We lost because they ran the ball right down our throat.
    This was the poorest performance I have ever seen in my life by a DL trying to stop the run. They ran the ball straight up the middle and no one even laid a hand on them. We looked worse in that game with Pickett at DL then any game I have seen with Kennedy starting. No its not all Picketts fault but he also looked horrible in that game.

  11. #56
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsSB99 View Post
    This was the poorest performance I have ever seen in my life by a DL trying to stop the run. They ran the ball straight up the middle and no one even laid a hand on them. We looked worse in that game with Pickett at DL then any game I have seen with Kennedy starting. No its not all Picketts fault but he also looked horrible in that game.
    According to that logic, not a single player who played defense that day is worth anything. Including Tinoisamoa and Little.

    Have you ever seen a defense that had a good NT, and little else? Would a defense like that be expected to stop the run...just because it had a good NT?

    And not every run by Atlanta was up the middle. Seems to me the major damage was from the Rams great run defense weakness of that time---cutback runs.

    So judging Pickett from that one game is just extreme. One game like that does not logically support your conclusion. There were way too many other factors.

    Again, the single best and only really reliable way to measure Pickett's play would be to review a couple of games with an eye on him alone. Everything else is more or less just speculative.

    I didn't like that game either, but if you want to reduce it to a single scapegoat, try Marmie.

  12. #57
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    znrd makes the appropriate and right on target point. You cant say that every player on the defense stinks just because the defense as a whole stinks. Little is the perfect example. Shall we discuss whiffed tackles down the field and by the linebackers in that atlanta game. Do you want to discuss the ball that hit kim herring in the hands for an INT for a TD early on that he dropped that completely changed the entire game.

    Listen to znrd, he is frequently and commonly the voice of reason.

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  13. #58
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by GC
    I appreciate that some people dont want to talk about pickett anymore and dont want to read about him. That is certainly their perogative. My suggestion is that you dont waste your time reading the threads or responding to them. No one is forcing you to do so.

    For those same people, i wish i had a nickel for everytime someone mentions our drafting history and guys we should go after that are on other teams. The idea that the only thing that we should talk about is the present and guys presently on the roster does not make sense at all to me. What does make sense to me is that each individual member on this board has the right to participate in whatever he wants to participate in. If you dont like the topic, ignore it, why criticize others for discussing it. Tell me how it has any impact of any kind on you to see others talking about something that you dont want to talk about and dont care about?

    The reason to look at the past is that it defines how we learn from it and avoid the same mistakes in the future. The powers of revisionist history in life and on this board are truly amazing. Our defense against the run has been awful. How we got this way is relevant to how we fix it. Again, if you dont like that, just ignore the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    Speaking for myself I was not criticizing you or the thread, I was just expressing my thoughts on the subject, just as you were. I don't buy into the "don't read the thread" idea. On those lines I could say the same to you, don't read any posts in the thread that say the Pickett issue is over and let's look ahead. I wouldn't say that to anyone because it just doesn't make sense to ignore posts or threads. If someone has a thought, express it in the proper manner which I think for the most part has been done here.

    I agree, it is good to look at the past and learn from it, but there is also a time where there is nothing else to learn and just rehashing what we already all know isn't learning anything new.

    Will the new pieces fit and work, or will we still be searching? Only time will tell now.

    :l
    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd View Post
    Disagree. I say let people say what they want. If no one is interested...they won't respond. If they are interested, they will respond, and who are we to say when it's "enough"?

    Threads exist and grow because people have things to say. There's no term limit on a topic.
    You disagree with what? I didn't say people shouldn't post, I said quite the opposite. What I'm saying is GC said "don't read & or post in a thread if you don't like it" and I don't buy that. If GC or anyone wants to talk Picket or any subject, and my thoughts are that Pickett is done and gone and I express them in the proper manner that's my right, just as it's GC's right to talk Pickett if he wants to. So mine or anybody's thoughts that Pickett is done are just as relevant as GC's or anybody else who wants to talk about Pickett.

    It's a two way street, and if a topic comes up and my thoughts are it's old or over and I want to express that I will, just as if GC wants to to talk Pickett that's fine but you have to expect and accept that some people have moved on and may express that if they feel the need to, just as GC or whomever might want to talk about Pickett.
    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    The backhanded compliments about Austin Davis are amusing.

  14. #59
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    Do you want to discuss the ball that hit kim herring in the hands for an INT for a TD early on that he dropped that completely changed the entire game.
    Not to pick, GC, but I believe the player you are referring to is Antwan Edwards. Mercifully for the Rams, K. Herring had already been cut the year before. Probably because his game smelled like his name. Amazingly enough even after A. Edwards' snafu, the Rams offered him a contract the following year and he turned it down!! I don't think he has stuck with a team since and he may be out of football at this time. So I guess he can add 'lousy business man' to his growing resume.

    WHAT SAY YE?

  15. #60
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    Re: pickett only had one good year......

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    You disagree with what? I didn't say people shouldn't post, I said quite the opposite. What I'm saying is GC said "don't read & or post in a thread if you don't like it" and I don't buy that. If GC or anyone wants to talk Picket or any subject, and my thoughts are that Pickett is done and gone and I express them in the proper manner that's my right, just as it's GC's right to talk Pickett if he wants to. So mine or anybody's thoughts that Pickett is done are just as relevant as GC's or anybody else who wants to talk about Pickett.

    It's a two way street, and if a topic comes up and my thoughts are it's old or over and I want to express that I will, just as if GC wants to to talk Pickett that's fine but you have to expect and accept that some people have moved on and may express that if they feel the need to, just as GC or whomever might want to talk about Pickett.
    Fair enough. I think I misread you.

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