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  1. #1
    RamsInfiniti's Avatar
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    Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    Got a chance to watch the Seattle game again on NFL network last night. It's much easier to get a subjective view on the game when you are not as involved in the outcome when you are watching it the first time ...

    I don't see how offensive play calling can be to blame for this loss. I just can't. I do agree we did not work the middle of the field enough, but other than that, all the play were there and efficient play by Frerotte leads us to an easy win ...

    The delayed handoffs that everyone was so disgusted with were the only run plays we gained anything on all day, minus the 53 yard run by Jackson up the gut. That was just a great playcall against a dejected defense at the time. There were two delated handoffs where if Jackson makes one simple cut off of Alex Barron on the left side, he might have gained 20+ yards. Instead, he runs straight into the called hole, despite the fact that there was shift right. Either something is wrong with his vision, or he is just not right. This is not the SJ from last year ...

    We were in Seattle territory numerous times in the second half, only to have Frerotte sacked, throwing a DUMB INT, or just making a plain bad throw. We were in field goal range in the 4th, only to have Kerney blow right by Petitti with a below average spin move. If we get that field goal, we win the game at the end. Pathetic display of pass blocking, an even more pathetic display of passing by Frerotte. He's just not an accurate quarterback ...

    The gameplan was simple and easy for Frerotte. So many times, he just had to make an average throw to move the sticks and he couldn't. He had to make a middle school pass to Bruce to win the game and couldn't ....

    As for the final drive, the fumble by Frerotte is IRRELEVANT. The pass to Bruce was the major kicker. And the inability of SJ to get the ball into the endzone on third down was just as bad. Seattle was fully expecting pass on third down, and the nice inside handoff to SJ was a nice coy and should have got in, until he was beaten down by a DB. All he had to do was put his head down for a change and he's in ...

    As for the fumble, I saw THREE free runners for Seattle on that play. NO WAY SJ GETS IN THE ENDZONE ...

    So yes, Linehan is to blame for one thing. That is having Frerotte as our backup QB. We can't run the ball period. SJ has a vision problem, and until he corrects that, he's going to get plastered going up the gut. These delayed handoffs and sweeps are the only plays we run that give him a chance for big gainers, assuming he can make people miss ....

    I would like to think Bulger could have put up 30 on these guys easily. Unfortunately, one of the better play calls Linehan made was the one that got him injured. That slant and go, with the pumpfake, was a sweet call, and Torry was WIDE OPEN down the field. There just wasn't enough time ...


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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    If I may nitpick, they should take the pitch play to Jackson out of the playbook. It has never worked and it never will. As for the fumble, it looked like either the G or C moved back into Ferotte and the most inapproriate time.

    I'm not so sure about SJ having a vision problem. He's bronken way too many runs up the middle for me to acknowledge that. He isn't an outside runner, so why in the world when we are near the goal line does Linehan call a pitch play?

    Overall, the game wasn't called that bad. If Ferotte hits Bruce on the first down play it's all mute but to say Linehan calls a great game I think he just calls an average one.

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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    I also don't think the game was badly called,we were one play away from winning,if anything we may have gotten a little conservative in the second half,I would like to see more chances taken to extend the lead we had,but I would not say the plays called were bad,I look at it like this I would love to win but at 2-8(at the time)what do you really have to lose, go for it.

  4. #4
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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    Well, let's hope the linehan learns a few things from that game ...

    I think the problem with running up the gut is that we just don't have the opportunities to continually pound out 1 and 2 yard gains in anticipation of a 50 yarder. Unfortunately, we are not going to get those every game. We've got to get a bit more creative on the ground. Anyway, here's a couple things I'd love to see in the future. Please comment on whether you think these plays might be useful:

    1. Counter Trey - Especially when using these delayed type runs, I would love for us to show a slow developing running play to run side, only to see the RB take the handoff and run off the opposite tackle.

    2. Slant and Go - Please, please, please lets see this play again. It was called against the right D, zero coverage, at the right time, we just couldn't get the bomb off in time.

    3. Delay and Throw - Those delayed handoffs are PERFECT for play-action. Get the slow developing running play going to one side, or fake the pitch-sweep, and roll out our QB to the other side. Should provide one-on-one coverage down field, or free the middle if the safeties pull. A good pass leads to a great gain. You could have McMichaeal rolling left as if he were blocking, then leak to the middle. Also, what better way to neutralize blitzers and pass rushers than have them running the other way. SJ has been running well enough to make the play action effective!
    Last edited by RamsInfiniti; -11-29-2007 at 01:42 PM.

  5. #5
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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    The chat room is a great place to give realtime opinions and observations during a game. Nick and I made comments about the playcalling being effective throughout the game, as did a few noted Linehan critics which was actually surprising to see.

    In any case, I agree with RamsInfiniti, there is no way the playcalling was to blame for the loss.

  6. #6
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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    To each their own opinion, I guess, but I think you have downplayed two very key issues:

    1) You make a brief mention of the failure to work the middle of the field, but I think that actually was a significant factor. If you (1) are having trouble slowing the pass rush, and (2) want to run the clock, I'd say working the middle of the field (quick slants, etc.) is exactly what you should be doing.

    2) Apart from the 53 yard run, Jackson averaged less than 2 yards per carry. You blame that on his vision. I don't buy that argument. The plays that were being called were not working. Try something else.

  7. #7
    RamsInfiniti's Avatar
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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    To each their own opinion, I guess, but I think you have downplayed two very key issues:

    1) You make a brief mention of the failure to work the middle of the field, but I think that actually was a significant factor. If you (1) are having trouble slowing the pass rush, and (2) want to run the clock, I'd say working the middle of the field (quick slants, etc.) is exactly what you should be doing.

    2) Apart from the 53 yard run, Jackson averaged less than 2 yards per carry. You blame that on his vision. I don't buy that argument. The plays that were being called were not working. Try something else.
    What else is there to try with running the ball? He's not running with conviction no matter the calls. He dances around, hits the holes slowly, and misses occasionally on open holes. On top of that, the O-line gets no push at all ...

    The middle field slants were not there against Seattle, watch the tape. The backers were bottled in the center. The quick middle slants and the run game kind of go hand in hand. If you can't run the ball effectively, odds are those short passes won't be there either ...

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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    Well, let's hope the linehan learns a few things from that game ...

    I think the problem with running up the gut is that we just don't have the opportunities to continually pound out 1 and 2 yard gains in anticipation of a 50 yarder. Unfortunately, we are not going to get those every game. We've got to get a bit more creative on the ground. Anyway, here's a couple things I'd love to see in the future. Please comment on whether you think these plays might be useful:

    1. Counter Trey - Especially when using these delayed type runs, I would love for us to show a slow developing running play to run side, only to see the RB take the handoff and run off the opposite tackle.

    2. Slant and Go - Please, please, please lets see this play again. It was called against the right D, zero coverage, at the right time, we just couldn't get the bomb off in time.

    3. Delay and Throw - Those delayed handoffs are PERFECT for play-action. Get the slow developing running play going to one side, or fake the pitch-sweep, and roll out our QB to the other side. Should provide one-on-one coverage down field, or free the middle if the safeties pull. A good pass leads to a great gain. You could have McMichaeal rolling left as if he were blocking, then leak to the middle. Also, what better way to neutralize blitzers and pass rushers than have them running the other way. SJ has been running well enough to make the play action effective!
    I like your ideas. The one problem I see is with #3. More specifically our QB rolling out?
    I don't think our QB's are mobile enough for the roll-out and what's worse is the o-line isn't holding up either.

  9. #9
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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    What else is there to try with running the ball? He's not running with conviction no matter the calls. He dances around, hits the holes slowly, and misses occasionally on open holes. On top of that, the O-line gets no push at all ...
    We must be watching a different guy. The Steven Jackson I'm watching is not routinely missing holes. Rather, the holes are routinely missing.

    The middle field slants were not there against Seattle, watch the tape. The backers were bottled in the center. The quick middle slants and the run game kind of go hand in hand. If you can't run the ball effectively, odds are those short passes won't be there either ...
    If the backers are bottled in the center, you need to run middle patterns (slants, in routes) behind them to make them back off. With guys like Bennett and McMichael (not to mention Holt and Bruce) that should be our bread and butter.

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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    I watched that also, I have one question. Linehan stated on the play where Marc got creamed from behind, "that we where trying to score on a double move we did not get it off." Why call a play that takes forever and a week to exicute? If you want to take a shot down feild move the pocket roll him out. IMO bad call.

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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I watched that also, I have one question. Linehan stated on the play where Marc got creamed from behind, "that we where trying to score on a double move we did not get it off." Why call a play that takes forever and a week to exicute? If you want to take a shot down feild move the pocket roll him out. IMO bad call.
    Roll him out??? I'm not so sure Bulger or (cement shoes) Frerotte are the roll out types?

    The way our o-line is playing our QB's would be rolling out right into an oncoming DE.

  12. #12
    RamsInfiniti's Avatar
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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    I like your ideas. The one problem I see is with #3. More specifically our QB rolling out?
    I don't think our QB's are mobile enough for the roll-out and what's worse is the o-line isn't holding up either.
    "Roll out" isn't the best term I guess. They just should have to turn and throw on a properly executed fake ...

    And as for Avenger saying he doesn't see SJ missing holes, rewatch the Seattle game. All dancing, and he runs straight into the line. Like I said, twice, he could gain 20+ yards by bouncing outside of the designated hole. That is what a savvy back does ...

  13. #13
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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    "Roll out" isn't the best term I guess. They just should have to turn and throw on a properly executed fake ...

    And as for Avenger saying he doesn't see SJ missing holes, rewatch the Seattle game. All dancing, and he runs straight into the line. Like I said, twice, he could gain 20+ yards by bouncing outside of the designated hole. That is what a savvy back does ...

    Jackson bouncing outside is about as viable as asking Av to give Linehan a break. It just doesn't happen.

  14. #14
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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Jackson bouncing outside is about as viable as asking Av to give Linehan a break. It just doesn't happen.
    It's worth a try and if anything, it gives the defense something to think about. Didn't Jackson bounce outside when he threw his TD pass?

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    Re: Playcalling to blame for Seattle loss? No way ...

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    It's worth a try and if anything, it gives the defense something to think about. Didn't Jackson bounce outside when he threw his TD pass?
    hey maybe your on to something,put Jackson in the shotgun with the option to run or pass.wasn't it the Jets game when Martz did that with Trung Canidate down by the end zone and he took it up the middle for a touchdown.

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