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  1. #1
    general counsel's Avatar
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    A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    I will rephrase in the hopes that this post we not be moved again.

    Jackson is a critical component to any chance we have of winning games. He is our only real weapon, the only thing we have that defenses have to respect. Its hard for anyone to respect bulger since our ability to get the ball down the field is limited by our inability to pass protect, as we saw again today. Avery may turn into a weapon, but he is not one now in part because we dont get the ball in his hands enough.

    I appreciate that spags is trying to send a message that the rams wont quit no matter what the scoreboard says. However, this is game 4 of a 16 game season. If we want to improve and get some momentum as the season goes on (which may or may not be possible under any circumstances), we are going to need a healthy steven Jackson to do so. We have no real backup at that position and certainly no one within the same hemisphere talent wise as the Big Boy.

    So fans, tell me, what in the world is Jackson doing in the game with 9 minutes left and the rams down 35-0. How is the benefit of trying to avoid a shutout greater than the downside of him getting hurt on a meaningless play, as he did on a meaningless play at the end of the dallas game last year, ending our two game winning streak and essentially flushing any chance we had at having a season down the toilet.

    If Jackson is injured for any extended period of time, i dont think we have a chance to win a single game. Without him we have absolutely nothing on offense. Thus, i think a decision to risk injury to him when we are down by 35 points into the 4th quarter is irresponsible and not in the best interst of the team.

    I like and support spags. This decision was a terrible one. I dont think it should be repeated in future blowouts, of which unfortunately, there are likely to be more to come this year. We need spags to show leadership and someone get the team to play with greater discipline. The talent level isnt good, but the stupid penalties dont relate to the talent level. In short, its fair to criticize spags for exactly the same things that people would be all over Linehan or Haslett's case for.

    Ramming speed to all

    general counsel



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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    very good points GC, I was thinking the same thing as I watched,we don't play this guy for most of the pre season because they don't want him to get injured but yet you leave him in a 35-0 game,doesn't make much sense, at least it doesn't to me.c'mon Spags you need to protect that investment a little better.

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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    I agree, Jackson should have been pulled from the game a bit earlier in order to protect him for later in the season. In the chat, I was questioning why he was still in the game when it was a 35-0 blowout. Love the fire and passion, but if he gets injured, we've gone from one offensive playmaker to zero.

    To clarify, GC, your original post was merged into the game discussion thread because it was a post talking about the game live while the game was going on. It's always been our policy to have one thread for all live game discussion, and to merge new threads about the game into that thread until the game has been finalized.

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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    I had mentioned this in another thread about pulling our starter out, i.e. Jackson, Bulger if we are getting blown out and it is late in the game. i believe it shouldnt just be jackson but Bulger as well when it gets to that point. IMO.


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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    totally agree with steve on this, I was wondering the same.. I read somewhere that Jackson just wanted to stay in the game and just punish the whiners with every run, but to me, isn't it upto the coach to say "enough is enough" and pull the guy, Bulger too.... hell, the situation is bad NOW imagine although I don't want to, if Jackson got hurt!!!

    steve
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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    When we're that far behind, why not let guys like Gado (what ever happened to him anyway?), and Darby get some reps. There won't be as much pressure on them as there would if Jackson was hurt and they had to play. Whether you up by 35 points or down by 35, it's time to start substituting .. Could have thrown Null in there as well .. After all, even for those who don't like Boller, he's the only experienced qb we've got right now until Bulger heals up.

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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    You guys just don't get "it", and I don't know how to explain it in any way that you won't just attempt to tear to shreds ...

    So I won't try ...

    But really, you REALLY think that was to avoid a shutout? That's so far away from why this happened that it's not even worth arguing ....
    Last edited by RamsInfiniti; -10-05-2009 at 01:31 PM.

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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    You guys just don't get "it", and I don't know how to explain it in any way that you won't just attempt to tear to shreds ...

    So I won't try ...

    But really, you REALLY think that was to avoid a shutout? That's so far away from why this happened that it's not even worth arguing ....
    As I said in my post, I love his fire and passion. I love that he wants to be out there, down by 35, so he can steam roll over defenders because he simply wants to compete.

    But again, this game was out of hand. We weren't going to win. There comes a time in contests like that when you've got to pull valuable players and not risk them to injury, especially when they're the single biggest factor in your offensive football gameplan.

    All one needs to do is look back to last year's Dallas game. The Rams may have been able to go on the road and get their third win against New England with Jackson in the backfield, but an injury sustained in garbage time kept Jackson out. You've got to be able to make personnel adjustments, at least when it comes to your most valuable players, when games are out of reach.

    Jackson deserves all the praise for his desire to be in there trying to make something happen, leading by example, but when he's your only offensive playmaker, you can't afford to be risky with him in a situation like that IMO.

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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    As I said in my post, I love his fire and passion. I love that he wants to be out there, down by 35, so he can steam roll over defenders because he simply wants to compete.

    But again, this game was out of hand. We weren't going to win. There comes a time in contests like that when you've got to pull valuable players and not risk them to injury, especially when they're the single biggest factor in your offensive football gameplan.

    All one needs to do is look back to last year's Dallas game. The Rams may have been able to go on the road and get their third win against New England with Jackson in the backfield, but an injury sustained in garbage time kept Jackson out. You've got to be able to make personnel adjustments, at least when it comes to your most valuable players, when games are out of reach.

    Jackson deserves all the praise for his desire to be in there trying to make something happen, leading by example, but when he's your only offensive playmaker, you can't afford to be risky with him in a situation like that IMO.
    Big difference between him playing in a 34-14 Rams blowout, versus the message he was trying to send in a 35-0 Rams loss ...

    What exactly are we trying to save him for this season?

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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    Big difference between him playing in a 34-14 Rams blowout, versus the message he was trying to send in a 35-0 Rams loss ...

    What exactly are we trying to save him for this season?
    We're trying to save him for next week. And the week after that. And the week after that.

    No one's confusing this team with a playoff contender, but that doesn't mean you give up on the entire year after four weeks and throw caution to the wind with your franchise player.

    Just my $0.02.

  11. #11
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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    I don't think we should be "saving" players for anything. Barring a catastrophic career ending injury, Jackson, and everybody else should be on the field busting tail unless we have a very comfortable lead. They need to gel as a team, and get comfortable in the schemes ...

    Remember the past three years? How our defense always used to fold in the second half?

    That has also happened against Seattle. Somewhat against Green Bay, but I attribute that more to just being completely exhausted than will and desire ...

    So what happens if Spags pulls Jackson out of the game there? Does it negatively affect anything? Maybe not, hard to tell ...

    But, did you see our defense fold in the 4th this game? Nope, you didn't ....

    It may not affect veterans, but I guarandamntee you that some youngster(s) on the defense was playing close attention to that crazed effort that Jackson gave in the 4th quarter. There was some youngster(s) paying close attention to Little working until the very end to get to the QB, and he did ...

    And I guarantee you there were guys on the other side of the ball, maybe just one, maybe more, that saw what Jackson did and decided that there was no way in hell they were packing it in ...

    It seems trivial, but in the long run, I don't think it is. Young players look up to Jackson, and he could have easily sat down, and just wrote this off, but that's not Jackson, he has too much heart ...
    Last edited by RamsInfiniti; -10-05-2009 at 03:32 PM.

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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    I think Jackson has already done quite a bit that younger players could look up. He'd already done a fair amount during the game that was admirable. I just don't agree that any advantage gained by keeping him in there offset the risk in doing so. We'll have to agree to disagree.

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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I think Jackson has already done quite a bit that younger players could look up. He'd already done a fair amount during the game that was admirable. I just don't agree that any advantage gained by keeping him in there offset the risk in doing so. We'll have to agree to disagree.
    No problem with that ...

    But I bet you will admit, did it not inspire you to see Jackson run like that, even late in the game?

  14. #14
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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    I'm conflicted on this situation and see the wisdom in both points of view.

    While it probably would have been a good idea to pull Jackson in the 4th, I think Spags and Jackson feel the same way RamsInfiniti does. It's about sending a message to the team, about attitude and about forging the mentality of never giving up. It goes right along with Spags calling time outs late in games even though the outcome has been decided.

    Opinions may differ on this philosophy, but these guys are football players being paid big money to do a job, and sometimes part of that job is setting the tone for the future. IMO it's part of Spags plan to make this team stronger and a winner down the road.

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    Re: A POST GAME criticism of spags and how he uses Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I'm conflicted on this situation and see the wisdom in both points of view.

    While it probably would have been a good idea to pull Jackson in the 4th, I think Spags and Jackson feel the same way RamsInfiniti does. It's about sending a message to the team, about attitude and about forging the mentality of never giving up. It goes right along with Spags calling time outs late in games even though the outcome has been decided.

    Opinions may differ on this philosophy, but these guys are football players being paid big money to do a job, and sometimes part of that job is setting the tone for the future. IMO it's part of Spags plan to make this team stronger and a winner down the road.
    some very good points on both sides, I was all for pulling Jackson late in the game but RamsInfiniti did make a good point,Spags letting the team know you never give up until the final whistle regardless of the situation is a tough lesson but one they need to learn,I just wonder if I would be feeling the same today had Jackson blown out his knee in the 4th qtr yesterday.

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