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  1. #16
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    I guess its a good thing we have ten other picks in the draft. We have our expensive lineman in Smith. You get your guards later in the draft, and we certainly will have options in the late to mid rounds. We have starters at each position albeit not "wow" guys. We can get some talented prospects late in the draft and use our premium picks on skill positions.

    Btw Rammiser you don't get rid of your talented youth because they struggled. Avery was also our biggest deep threat and had about 3 touchdowns taken away on deep balls due to underthrown Bulger balls and innacurate Boller balls. Lets package all of our developing talent because they weren't all elite all season!

    I think a Gresham.Gronkowski at tight end will go a LONG way to helping this offense. Teams flat out disrespected the Rams this past season by constantly sending blitzes at us. They did this because time and time again we failed to make them pay for it. With a Gresham running over the middle as the checkdown guy for 7 uyard completions, teams will respect us more in the passing game and lay off the blitzes. Our lines lack of cohesiveness all year showed up in games when guys failed to pick up blitzers on a consistent bases. Pressure up the middle is the ultimate slap in the face IMO...

    Just because our line isn't elite doesn't mean we don't take a quarterback. Picking a defensive lineman won't make our offensive line elite either, but we can do what i said earlier and pick up talented projects later in the round.


  2. #17
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    We should all now quit bagging on Alex Barron, the Rams best offensive lineman and anchor, who, btw, SJ can thank for openning up many of holes for him! So much for the "If Bulger had protection excuse".
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #18
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    Where you do get your repeatedly quoted fact that the Rams WRs only run 2 second routes and QBs are expected to deliver the ball by then? Could you direct me to a source for such information? It seems like weekly you claim this is a reality.
    OK...how long does it take the ubiquitous 3 yard slant to develop? That appears to be our core throwing play, so, basing timing requirements off of that seems to be like a good idea.

  4. #19
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    OK...how long does it take the ubiquitous 3 yard slant to develop? That appears to be our core throwing play, so, basing timing requirements off of that seems to be like a good idea.
    If the average route is 3 yards, why did Bulger only complete 58.5% of his passes in his best season of the last 3 years?

    Other than from your memory, would you care to provide us with stats on this 3 yard slant being the normal play? Since I went to all the home games the last 3 seasons and can't remember where this was the norm, who were the primary receivers to catch all these 3 yard slants? Holt sure wasn't running 3 yard slant routes.

    How often was Jackson the primary receiver when running into the flat? Seems to me he's routinely used as the alternate which means Bulger is the fastest QB in the league to read defenses and our receivers run routes faster than anyone in the league.
    Last edited by RebelYell; -04-13-2010 at 09:58 PM.

  5. #20
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    You keep coming with the same argument about 3 yard slants its getting old. You make it seem like that was our whole offense. Granted we were supper conservative in the passing game no one will disagree there. This offense was built around the young talent we had at receiver, our stud in the backfield, and Bulgers style. The o line was not cohesive all year and still we ranked high.

    IMO the offense is more of a reflection of Bulger and the receivers. The receivers are still learning and Bulger is a quick and accurate throw type of QB. He wanted to get rid of the ball and the receivers are still developing and learning the game. With another year under their belts the receivers will be better. We will have better talent at TE. Avery bigger more experienced coming into year 3, Gibson wont be a rookie, hopefully Robinson will stay healthy, we also still have time to add another weapon. The offense will be different the line will be healthy

  6. #21
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    If the average route is 3 yards, why did Bulger only complete 58.5% of his passes in his best season of the last 3 years?

    Other than from your memory, would you care to provide us with stats on this 3 yard slant being the normal play? Since I went to all the home games the last 3 seasons and can't remember where this was the norm, who were the primary receivers to catch all these 3 yard slants? Holt sure wasn't running 3 yard slant routes.

    How often was Jackson the primary receiver when running into the flat? Seems to me he's routinely used as the alternate which means Bulger is the fastest QB in the league to read defenses and our receivers run routes faster than anyone in the league.
    What we ran prior to last season is irrelevant to this conversation because those guys and their offensive systems are gone and fired. We hired a new offensive coordinator and completely changed the offense for last season, partially in light of the fact that the old offense was getting our QBs massacred for little gain. That is where you see the 3 yard slant coming into its own.

  7. #22
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    What we ran prior to last season is irrelevant to this conversation because those guys and their offensive systems are gone and fired. We hired a new offensive coordinator and completely changed the offense for last season, partially in light of the fact that the old offense was getting our QBs massacred for little gain. That is where you see the 3 yard slant coming into its own.
    Ah, so you don't have info on the actual stats? Like which receivers were just running 3 yard slant routes? How often jackson was the primary receiver when he caught the ball? if all the Rams did was run 3 yard slant routes, this shouldn't be a difficult thing to confirm. I'd think every reporter for the Rams would have done 3-4 articles on that insanity last season.

    Why was Bulger only able to complete just over 50% of his passes last season if all he had to throw was a 3 yard slant route?

  8. #23
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    Quote Originally Posted by 39thebeast View Post
    You keep coming with the same argument about 3 yard slants its getting old. You make it seem like that was our whole offense. Granted we were supper conservative in the passing game no one will disagree there. This offense was built around the young talent we had at receiver, our stud in the backfield, and Bulgers style. The o line was not cohesive all year and still we ranked high.

    IMO the offense is more of a reflection of Bulger and the receivers. The receivers are still learning and Bulger is a quick and accurate throw type of QB. He wanted to get rid of the ball and the receivers are still developing and learning the game. With another year under their belts the receivers will be better. We will have better talent at TE. Avery bigger more experienced coming into year 3, Gibson wont be a rookie, hopefully Robinson will stay healthy, we also still have time to add another weapon. The offense will be different the line will be healthy
    It rarely is, so pardon my skepticism. Offensive linemen are always banging something up, or tweaking something, or generally missing time. We can't just adopt some Pollyanna-like "They will be healthy because we say they will be healthy" attitude in defiance of common sense and history. So...can the Pollyanna Brigade provide me a guarantee that things will be ok if the offensive linemen are not healthy, or should I treat the offensive line as the Jack of Diamonds in this house of cards we appear to be assembling for next year? Or better yet, what if they are healthy, and continue to suck? I didn't exactly see a huge dropoff between Week 1 and Week 17 out of that crew.

    We also didn't exactly attempt to use Jackson for plays that took awhile to develop either, which also indicates a lack of confidence in our ability to keep defenders out of the backfield (and Jackson's "relative" lack of mobility).

    It's also not a given that the wideouts are going to improve. Avery sure didn't this past season, so to automatically assume he will now is questionable.

  9. #24
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    Ah, so you don't have info on the actual stats? Like which receivers were just running 3 yard slant routes? How often jackson was the primary receiver when he caught the ball? if all the Rams did was run 3 yard slant routes, this shouldn't be a difficult thing to confirm. I'd think every reporter for the Rams would have done 3-4 articles on that insanity last season.

    Why was Bulger only able to complete just over 50% of his passes last season if all he had to throw was a 3 yard slant route?
    Because just about whenever we attempted to go beyond 3 yards our wideouts did their best Braylon Edwards impression, they play blew up in some way and we had to get rid of it, or our receivers revealed that they struggle to run even the simplest of patterns. Actually this applies to the 3 yard route too.

    Oh, and NFL defensive coordinators aren't idiots either. Most actually have a sense of pattern recognition.

  10. #25
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    let's review a few receivers:

    Gibson: 10.4 ypr and 2.9 yac which means he caught the ball on average at 7.5 yards beyond the line.

    Burton: 10.1 and 3.3 meaning he caught the ball 6.8 yards beyond the line.

    Avery: 12.5 and 5.2 which means 7.3 yards beyond the line when caught

    Amendola: 7.6 and 4.7 for 2.9 You've met your target! Problem is, he's the #4 receiver and not a starter. Plus he's the slot receiver, that's what slot receivers run.

    Robinson: 12.8 adn 3.3 for 9.5 yards beyond the line.

    Ruvell Martin: 16.5 and 9.3 for 7.2 yards beyond the line.


    You might want to adjust your thought process.

    EDIT: let's include TEs just for the heck of it.

    Bajema: 11.8 and 5.8 for 5.0 beyond the line. Wow, you are close!
    Fells: 11.9 and 4.8 for a 7.1
    McMichael: 9.8 and 4.3 for 5.5 Darn, so close.
    Last edited by RebelYell; -04-13-2010 at 10:31 PM.

  11. #26
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    It rarely is, so pardon my skepticism. Offensive linemen are always banging something up, or tweaking something, or generally missing time. We can't just adopt some Pollyanna-like "They will be healthy because we say they will be healthy" attitude in defiance of common sense and history. So...can the Pollyanna Brigade provide me a guarantee that things will be ok if the offensive linemen are not healthy, or should I treat the offensive line as the Jack of Diamonds in this house of cards we appear to be assembling for next year? Or better yet, what if they are healthy, and continue to suck? I didn't exactly see a huge dropoff between Week 1 and Week 17 out of that crew.

    We also didn't exactly attempt to use Jackson for plays that took awhile to develop either, which also indicates a lack of confidence in our ability to keep defenders out of the backfield (and Jackson's "relative" lack of mobility).

    It's also not a given that the wideouts are going to improve. Avery sure didn't this past season, so to automatically assume he will now is questionable.
    I will agree that injuries are bound to happen, but whats the odds all of them miss time again this year. I think we have built up better depth than last year so even if they all go down we will be better off. Who knows maybe the turf had alot more to do with it than we think, so the new turf may cut down on some of those injuries.

    Jason Brown IMO is an elite center. Bell played above average last year and I think he can maintain that. The winner of the Fraley, Goldberg, Grecco competition IMO will be solid. Jason Smith showed some real promise as a run blocker and is athletic and has the work ethic. Remember this is second year working out of the 3 point stance and I expect him to play his natural position left tackle. Barron is he ever going to get it? Probably not, but he is an average tackle.

    Gibson IMO can only go up. Considering how late he came in and being a rookie I thought he performed well and with another year under his belt he can only go up.

    Robinson played well when he was healthy and on pace for a really good season. No doubt health is a major question, but there is no doubting the talent.

    Avery some hate him some like him. I place myself in the middle. He put on additional weight HOPEFULLY that helps him stay healthy and helps him beat the jam. He still has the speed.

    Rams are going to definately add a TE and thats going to help everyone out. McMichael was a bum and yet our best option. Teams didn't even have to cover the seem. Get a reall threat and things are easier for your QB and your WR.

  12. #27
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    Quote Originally Posted by 39thebeast View Post
    Rams are going to definately add a TE and thats going to help everyone out. McMichael was a bum and yet our best option. Teams didn't even have to cover the seem. Get a reall threat and things are easier for your QB and your WR.
    Did you forget how satisfactory Daniel Fells was. Other than that we need some depth on the TE if you might ask.

  13. #28
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    Daniel Fells was passable but you'll eb hard pressed to pass Gresham at the top of the second if available, and I wouldn't unless someone insane fell there like Dez and the like. Perhaps Sean Weatherspoon.

  14. #29
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    Fells was targeted 32x and dropped 3 balls. That's very average.

  15. #30
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Analysis of Rams O-line

    To be honest, I'm not a math whiz so I don't know what to make of their methodology. I'm a bit dubious of how they've tried to quantify hits and hurries the way they have.

    What I do know from watching the actual Rams games is that the line did improve as the season went on, and they seemed to play their best game against the Saints. However, as has been the case for the last 5+ years, the injury bug hit and the Rams weren't able to maintain any kind of efficiency on the line. St. Louis hasn't been able to field their starting five offensive linemen for a full season since... 2003?

    It's great that they've shown the potential to play well when all on the field together, but if that rarely if ever happens, it doesn't do us a whole lot of good. We're looking at anywhere from two to three new starters on the OL (Smith @ LT, new starting RG, and perhaps something new @ RT), so maybe they'll be able to stay healthy. But I won't hold my breath.

    As for all the talk about the offensive routes the Rams run, I looked into the pass breakdowns of Bulger and Boller (the statistical info for Null was incomplete), and found that of their combined 423 pass attempts in 2009, 106 of them - or 25% - were beyond ten yards. Interpret that how you wish.
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