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Thread: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    I watched 1 game of football for PFF and it took me 12 hours. Yes, 12 hours. As time went on I decreased it to about 8 hours per game, but yes, that's detail for ya.
    No, its not. As Dr. Cooper explained, it would take at least 4 to 5 times that to adequately watch and evaluate every player on every play.


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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    No, its not. As Dr. Cooper explained, it would take at least 4 to 5 times that to adequately watch and evaluate every player on every play.
    Yes, that is detail whether or not you want to admit it. I'm not saying that's the full amount of time they put into a game, I'm saying that's what I did. To watch a football game (without commercials) takes about 35 minutes, yet I managed to spend 12 hours on it. And that's only the first step of the process.


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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    I watched 1 game of football for PFF and it took me 12 hours. Yes, 12 hours. As time went on I decreased it to about 8 hours per game, but yes, that's detail for ya.
    So what are you saying you watched a game and it took you 12 hours and you gave feed back on a game for PFF?

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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    So what are you saying you watched a game and it took you 12 hours and you gave feed back on a game for PFF?
    I can't exactly say too much because I was instructed not to (Employment opportunities there really interest me) but something along the lines of that. I watched a specific game as instructed and it took me 12 hours to record the info they were interested in (Applying for a position there).


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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    No offense, Sosa, but if PFF is getting its "information" from people like you, why should I value it at all.

    You never played in the NFL.
    You never coached in the NFL.
    You never worked for an NFL scouting department.
    You never worked for an NFL front office.

    When I give my opinions here, they are nothing more than the opinions of a fan. While I do believe that I provide more objective facts to support my opinions than many others do, I don't claim that my subjective analysis is of any greater value than that of any other comparable fan.

    You seem to think that you can make vague references to "watching tape" or "watching game for PFF" (are you claiming that you work for them now?), and that somehow puts you in a position of superiority. In that regard, you are much like the various sportswriters who, despite the fact that they are little more than fans with a public forum and a paycheck, seem to think their opinions are more worthy of deference.

    Let's be clear here.

    PFF is nothing more than a collection of fans who started a website, created some "metrics" and package their opinions with a nice ribbon and bow.

    If you want to rely on those opinions, that's your right. But anyone who backs up their argument with "PFF ranked him as the ___ best ____ in the league" is merely backing one subjective opinion with another.

    I'm not impressed.
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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    I can't exactly say too much because I was instructed not to (Employment opportunities there really interest me) but something along the lines of that. I watched a specific game as instructed and it took me 12 hours to record the info they were interested in (Applying for a position there).
    And doesn't that get back to the point that AV is making? That PFF's "rankings" are based on subjective measurements by numerous different opinions. You're doing it, some dude over there is doing it, some dude down the street is doing it, some dude over yonder is doing it, etc. There's no consistency whatsoever. How can that type of subjective ranking be taken seriously? Other than what it is......an opinion, like the 300+million other opinions in the country.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    No offense, Sosa, but if PFF is getting its "information" from people like you, why should I value it at all.

    You never played in the NFL.
    You never coached in the NFL.
    You never worked for an NFL scouting department.
    You never worked for an NFL front office.

    When I give my opinions here, they are nothing more than the opinions of a fan. While I do believe that I provide more objective facts to support my opinions than many others do, I don't claim that my subjective analysis is of any greater value than that of any other comparable fan.

    You seem to think that you can make vague references to "watching tape" or "watching game for PFF" (are you claiming that you work for them now?), and that somehow puts you in a position of superiority. In that regard, you are much like the various sportswriters who, despite the fact that they are little more than fans with a public forum and a paycheck, seem to think their opinions are more worthy of deference.

    Let's be clear here.

    PFF is nothing more than a collection of fans who started a website, created some "metrics" and package their opinions with a nice ribbon and bow.

    If you want to rely on those opinions, that's your right. But anyone who backs up their argument with "PFF ranked him as the ___ best ____ in the league" is merely backing one subjective opinion with another.

    I'm not impressed.
    No offence taken. I do NOT work for PFF, nor did they publish my work. I'm simply stating that I went through the process which they do and I can certainly respect their work because I know how much work is put into it. They don't just hire anybody and set them up to get things going. I consider myself a pretty damn knowledgeable football guy and I couldn't even crack into their team. Just for the record I believe it goes through a process. I don't think its "Joe you watch the Falcons game, Sam you watch the Jets game".. It's what I assume more like Joe you're doing step 1 of the Jets game, Mike you're doing step 2, and Damian you're on step 3 for that game.

    Everyone specializes in something.


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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    I can't exactly say too much because I was instructed not to (Employment opportunities there really interest me) but something along the lines of that. I watched a specific game as instructed and it took me 12 hours to record the info they were interested in (Applying for a position there).
    And for the record, Sosa, I hope you do get a job with them. It's obvious you're very passionate about this topic, and being passionate about your job makes work a lot less work.
    Rambos likes this.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    And doesn't that get back to the point that AV is making? That PFF's "rankings" are based on subjective measurements by numerous different opinions. You're doing it, some dude over there is doing it, some dude down the street is doing it, some dude over yonder is doing it, etc. There's no consistency whatsoever. How can that type of subjective ranking be taken seriously? Other than what it is......an opinion, like the 300+million other opinions in the country.
    It is an opinion, I'm not denying that. But it's not like "AV sit down and watch the Jaguars vs Jets game and whatever you come away with is what we'll take". Some of the work they do over there is not subjective, it's fact. Like when a guys job is to write where all the players line-up. He's either a SS or a FS, there's no opinion involved.

    Since I don't know the WHOLE operation I'm sure there is plenty of opinion involved, but those guys put in their work so I can trust and value their opinions.


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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    I can't exactly say too much because I was instructed not to (Employment opportunities there really interest me) but something along the lines of that. I watched a specific game as instructed and it took me 12 hours to record the info they were interested in (Applying for a position there).
    Don't you think that IF PFF is getting the data from people from without years of experience in coaching or scouting maybe when it comes to the product they are producing it's not exactly high quality.

    It kind of reminds me of H&R block, come tax time everyone is a CPA.

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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Don't you think that IF PFF is getting the data from people from without years of experience in coaching or scouting maybe when it comes to the product they are producing it's not exactly high quality.

    It kind of reminds me of H&R block, come tax time everyone is a CPA.
    Well for the record I did say they did NOT publish my work or anything, so who knows the guys they employ. I know they are regular people because I follow them on twitter and stuff but that does not mean they can't do their job correctly.

    If a car dealership hires someone to be a salesmen, just because he hasn't been employed by a dealership before doesn't mean he can't do his job correctly. Me and you both know that.


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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    My expertise, quite frankly, is not in football, but in evidence. As a litigator, I have to be able to weigh the value of documents and testimony.

    Extending this expertise to football, I look at things this way:

    Good "Evidence"
    Objective data/statistics (individual and team)
    The actions of teams (i.e. who starts, who gets playing time, who gets the contracts)
    The expressed opinions of true experts (i.e. coaches, GMs)

    Poor "Evidence"
    Subjective opinions of non-experts (i.e. sportswriters, bloggers, fans)
    Non-scientific metrics that filter objective data through subjective lenses (i.e. PFF, ESPN Total QBR)

    That's my method. Take it or leave it.

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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Well for the record I did say they did NOT publish my work or anything, so who knows the guys they employ. I know they are regular people because I follow them on twitter and stuff but that does not mean they can't do their job correctly.

    If a car dealership hires someone to be a salesmen, just because he hasn't been employed by a dealership before doesn't mean he can't do his job correctly. Me and you both know that.
    I can research and go buy a car and come out smelling like a rose and so could you. The salesman is just a mouth piece. It's the terms of the contract, price ect. that matter. That said if you or I got accused of a crime we would both be better served to lawyer up right?

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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    That's ultimately the difference. The PFF guys are by no means any type of Gods. I just simply value what they do because of the amount of work I know has to go into their publishings. I appreciate it but obviously they can make mistakes.


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    Re: Pro Football Focus Rates the Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I can research and go buy a car and come out smelling like a rose and so could you. The salesman is just a mouth piece. It's the terms of the contract, price ect. that matter. That said if you or I got accused of a crime we would both be better served to lawyer up right?
    Of course, but it doesn't mean that a practising and employed lawyer is the only one to know how to do it.


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