A QB needs elite, game-breaking WRs to be successful... or does he?

The Denver Broncos had the 7th best passing attack in the league last season under McDaniels, with Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow throwing to Brandon Lloyd, Eddie Royal and Jabar Gaffney.

None of the WRs are elite WRs, none of the QBs are HOF QBs... and yet they still has a successful passing attack. Better than the Rams (21st) had. Better even than the Patriots, in fact, who had the 11th best passing attack.

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Originally Posted by tomahawk247

The Denver Broncos had the 7th best passing attack in the league last season under McDaniels, with Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow throwing to Brandon Lloyd, Eddie Royal and Jabar Gaffney.

None of the WRs are elite WRs, none of the QBs are HOF QBs... and yet they still has a successful passing attack. Better than the Rams (21st) had. Better even than the Patriots, in fact, who had the 11th best passing attack.

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Great points. Thanks.

No point going back and forth. I think we did a below average job with the draft picks.

Denver did a great job, (didn't use a TE much, which we drafted high) and Lloyd is a very good WR.

I hope we turn it around. I have full faith in the Spags/McDaniels combo. I wish we did things different in the draft, but we will see.....

good debating and such., but I won't continue until the Free Agent period ...

thanks !!1
rt

Funny Brandon Lloyd being called very good when he has been on how many teams before being made look good for the Broncos? I'll answer that for you, the *****,Bears and Redskins none of which made him look very good. He didnt look very good until in Mcdaniels system forthe Broncos.

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Originally Posted by 01d 0rd3r

To be an elite QB you need two things out of your receivers. 1) For them to be able to catch the ball. 2) For them to create seperation. Receivers do not need to be fast to do either of those things.

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I beg to differ sir. Every receiver requires a certain amount of speed to create separation on a consistent basis. No, he doesn't have to be Desean Jackson fast, but he certainly has to be able to gain a step on his defender. And I honestly don't know how you do that consistently with no speed. Unless of course, you're talking about running 5 yard square ins, slants and crossing routes ala Amendola all game long. And even then the defense will adjust and shut you down.

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Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater

I beg to differ sir. Every receiver requires a certain amount of speed to create separation on a consistent basis. No, he doesn't have to be Desean Jackson fast, but he certainly has to be able to gain a step on his defender. And I honestly don't know how you do that consistently with no speed. Unless of course, you're talking about running 5 yard square ins, slants and crossing routes ala Amendola all game long. And even then the defense will adjust and shut you down.

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That's where Avery, DX, and Clayton's abilities come to need. Clayton is a reliable intermediate, possession receiver, DX while still working on his ability to be a Randy Moss-type threat, did show flashes of getting the job done, and Avery the Burner who just uses vertical speed while he trying to catch bombs. Add that with our prized 3rd down/red zone receivers in the pile along with a dose of Jackson to have a three-dimensional offense all fit in to the category of making defensive coordinators lose sleep because of what they have plan in order to make us score as less as possible.

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Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater

I beg to differ sir. Every receiver requires a certain amount of speed to create separation on a consistent basis. No, he doesn't have to be Desean Jackson fast, but he certainly has to be able to gain a step on his defender. And I honestly don't know how you do that consistently with no speed. Unless of course, you're talking about running 5 yard square ins, slants and crossing routes ala Amendola all game long. And even then the defense will adjust and shut you down.

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You're half right.

Players need a certain amount of FOOTBALL speed to create separation. As much as we all love reciting 40 times, they are not NECESSARILY indicative of separation ability.

Historical example: Jerry Rice - 4.6 40 speed/as good as anyone in creating space.
Recent example: Brandon Lloyd - 4.6 40 speed/consistently created separation in McDaniels' offense.

Separation is the product of many factors, including by lateral quickness, sharp route-running and design of passing plays. Straight-line speed is really more a factor in two areas: (1) the ability to get behind the defense on deep patterns, and (2) breakaway plays. The Rams will hopefully be able to fill those roles with Alexander and Avery, both of whom have great timed speed.

For the "bread and butter" 10-15 yard patterns, though, guys like Kendricks, Pettis and Salas may prove to be very valuable.

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Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater

I beg to differ sir. Every receiver requires a certain amount of speed to create separation on a consistent basis. No, he doesn't have to be Desean Jackson fast, but he certainly has to be able to gain a step on his defender. And I honestly don't know how you do that consistently with no speed. Unless of course, you're talking about running 5 yard square ins, slants and crossing routes ala Amendola all game long. And even then the defense will adjust and shut you down.

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Do you remember a player by the name of Isaac Bruce? He wasn't the fastest guy but what he did do was run great routes and catch almost anything that came his way. He proved you don't need to run a 4.3 to be great.

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Originally Posted by Ramendola16

Right, because the Patriots players sip a magical elixir before every game that makes what they do impossible to duplicate...

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It's called HGH, duh...

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Originally Posted by Ramendola16

There is nothing special about what the Patriots do. They have an excellent leader in Brady and receivers that fit a scheme. Dress it up any way you want, but that's all it is at the core. With this draft, we've shown that we're building a similar offense. And we can likely expect similar results down the road.

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But what you say is absolutely correct. Partly because I loathe him so, I watch Brady very carefully when I have him forced down my thoats by the networks. Truth be told, he SUCKS, flat out SUCKS throwing outside of the numbers. Watch him this season and where most of his throws go. The offensive line holds the pass rush off until a guy is sliding through the middle with a step on his cover man. Brady steps up and throws it to him. Now, there's plenty of bubble screens outside the numbers as well, but of course, those aren't covered. But when Brady throws it intermediate or deep down the sidelines, chances are likely that the pass will incomplete. But that's exactly how he won his MVP, he threw HIGH PERCENTAGE throws or he threw it away. He either knew the ball would be completed or he didn't risk the INT. And thusly, you get what, 4INT's all year?

Now we see basically the same system here and I'm sure that Bradford can not only excel in it, I think he can exceed Brady in it. One, he's much more mobile than Brady, and can easily throw on the run. Second, I think he can throw better outside the numbers than Brady. If we can instill in Sam the same protect the ball at all counts attitude, and we can give him receivers who can get that step of separation on guys and then actually hang onto the ball, we have a top 3 offense waiting to happen.

It's all in the system. If you get guys who fit your system(and we know the system works), then your offense succeeds. Bruce and Holt weren't the huge physical specimens we see now in Megatron, Fitzy and Johnson, but they were all-pros because they ran crisp routes and had sure hands. If our receivers can do that in this system, we'll explode.

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Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater

I beg to differ sir. Every receiver requires a certain amount of speed to create separation on a consistent basis. No, he doesn't have to be Desean Jackson fast, but he certainly has to be able to gain a step on his defender. And I honestly don't know how you do that consistently with no speed. Unless of course, you're talking about running 5 yard square ins, slants and crossing routes ala Amendola all game long. And even then the defense will adjust and shut you down.

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Funny, defenses haven't been able to shut down the Pats' offense constantly doing those 5 yard ins, slants and crossing routes for close to 10 years now...

Pretty darn good WRs that aren't any faster than Pettis:

Brandon Marshall
Plaxico Burress
A. Boldin
Hines Ward
Michael Crabtree was .02 seconds faster
OchoCinco (Chad Johnson)

Contrary to the popular belief, speed isn't an indicator of success. It's really about the quality of their hands, the work ethic and a lot of luck. If you look back through the drafts, high ranked WRs are a shot in the dark.

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Originally Posted by AvengerRam

Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

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It does get old, does it not?

(PS - I probably have (had) every album S and G ever did, and the Boxer was in my top three, behind Sounds of Silence and Scarborough Fair)

I think Pettis had one of the fastest times in the shuttle or cone drill or something that the Rams really liked....

Pettis def is a guy that does the smaller things to get open, and he will catch the ball, thats for sure !

I think out of the 3 -- Kendricks, Pettis, Salas, the Rams are expecting the most from Pettis. I think he will catch the most balls year 1 and 2 out of these guys....plus he should be the holder, ala dane looker..