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Thread: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

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    Barry Waller is offline Registered User
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    Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    Cook counts $4 million, the Rams had about $15-$17 million at least in cap.

    Hayes cost a couple million cap.
    Cudjo a million


    So they have about $8 or $9, and Long will probably count $6 of that.

    They will need $4 million or so for draft picks.

    They would have to either move some money around on their high paid guys, or cut one of the veterans that saves the most cap, which would be Kendall Langford $3 million and Harvey Dahl $4 million.

    Langford is almost guaranteed to be cut next year, as it would then save $6 million in cap, and they could draft his replacement with one of those 2 #2 picks in 2014.

    Same for Dahl who still counts $4 mill next year.

    Chris Long has lower cap numbers the last two years of the deal, so the Rams could save $10 million in 2013 cap JUST by guranteeing his $13.5 million salary which turns it into pro rated bonus.

    The way Finnegan is set up, his salary is just #1 million a year, so they can't do anything there.

    Same for Wells, Laurenaitis.

    Looking at the Rams cap hits the next three or four years, most of the big money guys PEAK THIS year, because of money deferred to save cap last year and the year before.

    Next year, Finnegan counts $10 milllion instead of $15 Million he is this year.
    Long is the same next year, but he goes from $13.2 to $10 in 2015 and $11 mil in 2016, unless they redo him as I said, which seems necessary unless they really cut some guys.

    Bradford goes UP $5 million in 2014.
    Laurinaitis goes from $12.6 to $10.4 cap hit in 2014, then he'll be a bargain at $4 million $6 million and $8 million cap hit the next three years. That's really going to help them when Quinn, Brockers, Jenkins and others are FA.

    Wells stays at $6.5 million cap hit in 2014, with no dead money if cut, so he's as good as gone unless he redoes a deal.

    The Rams are really saved by the ability tp lower Long's cap hit by $10 million without the player having a say at all.

    If they add $10 million to the $12 they have left, then signes Long at $6 million cap year one, and Delmas at $4 million max cap hit year one, they STILL have $12 million left to sign more free agents, and could add $7 million MORE by cutting Dahl and Langford which could be used to sign a better DT, or another safety, a veteran CB, or a RB.

    Their absolute max would be that even after Long, Cook , Cudjo, and Hayes, plus Delmas, and $4 million for draft picks, the Rams would STILL have $15 million to spend.

    They probably won't do that, but if there was a guy they really really wanted, they have the means to signthem and still be way under the cap, thanks to Long's whole cap hit this year being SALARY, ll

    The idea that they are almost out of cap really is meaningless. They can still sign anyone they want after Long, Cook, and Delmas, even a star or two.

    They don't have to throw money at average guys, but they easily would have the dough to sign two or three good veterans to short term deals, just bu guaranteeing Long's 2013 salary.

    It would hurt them in free agency in 2014 and 2015, but by then they should have rebuilt with draft picks and will have cut Langford, Dahl, and Wells. .
    LARAM, TekeRam, Tampa_Ram and 2 others like this.

    Barry Waller

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    Re: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    Great info, many thanks BW sir.

    PS: So JLong may be on his way, ey?

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    Re: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    Great reporting sir, thank you!
    I believe!

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    Re: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    That was a great breakdown. Excellent job, Thanks!!!!!!!!

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    Re: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    I think the methodical Demoff would probably have structured Long's contract that way in the first place if it were that simple. Actually, I'd be a little disturbed if they did change Long's deal so soon after it was signed. What kind of half-baked planning would that scream ?

    Your overall point about the cap being almost infinitely malleable is spot on. And there are so many ins & outs that are rarely factored in. One huge one being that the new tv contracts kick in next year; anywhere from 20 to 30 mill more per team added to the cap. No particular insight as to how that is affecting long and short term money strategies in the NFL but I bet it is.

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    Re: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    I think the methodical Demoff would probably have structured Long's contract that way in the first place if it were that simple. Actually, I'd be a little disturbed if they did change Long's deal so soon after it was signed. What kind of half-baked planning would that scream ?

    Your overall point about the cap being almost infinitely malleable is spot on. And there are so many ins & outs that are rarely factored in. One huge one being that the new tv contracts kick in next year; anywhere from 20 to 30 mill more per team added to the cap. No particular insight as to how that is affecting long and short term money strategies in the NFL but I bet it is.
    Demoff's way is to take the pain the first couple years of contracts or new deals. So that down the road you can cut without having dead money. And because of those low capcounts the salary is easy transfered in guaranteed money. So for Long's and JL contracts there is a method to the madness.

    TVdeal won't be here untill 2015.

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    Re: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    The Rams had a lot more than 15-17 million this year. Cook will rip off only 4 million this year, but we're chasing Long (8 million+) and Delmas (another 4 million+). They MUST have re-worked some contracts behind the scenes, because we need at least 7 million for the draft picks.


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    Re: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    Quote Originally Posted by Rammed View Post
    Demoff's way is to take the pain the first couple years of contracts or new deals. So that down the road you can cut without having dead money. And because of those low capcounts the salary is easy transfered in guaranteed money. So for Long's and JL contracts there is a method to the madness.

    TVdeal won't be here untill 2015.
    While Demoff is certainly not mortgaging the future farm in general & in line with the NFL trend, that observation about contract structure is,imo, not particularly accurate or any more useful than those who insist on representing a player's real cost by simply dividing the total theoretical value of a contract by the total number of theoretical years.

    Long and Laurinaitis' extensions are as different as chalk & cheese in terms of their cap impact in the first year,for eg, despite similar total numbers. I think you have to look at each player/contract individually to get even close to understanding the implications. Sam's contract is another contrasting structure with peanuts paid in the first year, a massive bonus in year two & hugely accelerated base salaries from year 3 onward.

    In short, I think Demoff tailors to the specifics of the situation. I certainly doubt that the option of turning Long's monster 2013 cap hit into something more manageable in the manner Barry suggests wasn't considered. There's nothing unforeseen about the Rams cap situation so far- eg some monster FA like Wallace needing an unexpectedly large chunk of the 2013 cap- to suggest that a sudden change in Long's deal would, just 6-7 months after it was signed, be preferable to The Rams, imo.Long gets paid up front, either way, so it wouldn't have been a sticking point in the original negotiation. If anything, I'd guess players prefer teams to pro-rate because it makes it more painful for teams to cut early.

    According Breer @ nfldotcom, the new tv money kicks in for 2014 but, either way, my point stands that it's an important factor that no one is talking about when considering the implications of these new deals & how the value chart is shifting because of it and the rookie salary cap.

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    Re: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    Thanks for the info, Barry. You've given us a lot to process. One thing I will chime in on, though, is that $4 million or so for the rookie pool seems awfully conservative for a team with two first-round picks. Howard Balzer recently estimated the Rams would have to account for $6.1 million in rookie pool money. I think it'll end up being well over $5 million myself.

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    Re: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    Sorry, I was acually wrong on Long's deal. The first two years are guaranteed money already, so they can't use that cap ploy till 2014, when it would save about $9 million in cap.

    However, they can do deals that have a low cap number in 2013, and a big one in 2014, when they can use the Long deal to make the space, so it still is in play as a move.

    Finding more space this year would clearly involve redoing Langford or Dahl, or just cutting them.

    Hopefully, they won't need a bunch more space, knowing that they are in good shape for 2014 and 2015.
    Barry Waller

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    Re: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    Probably is closer to $6.4 rookie cap hit for this Rams draft, based on the same [picks in 2012. Though the bottom five rounds pretty much get the minimum, so on the real cap, using the top 51 salaries, would make no difference over the guys they beat out for a spot.

    Will be interesting to see where they find that cap money, what moves they make.
    Kevin Demogff knows this stuff a lot better than me, that's for sure.
    Barry Waller

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    Re: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    For those interested, by using that guaranteeing salary ploy, the Rams could add $2 million on Dahl, And that's about it for that trick as far as the Rams roster, as all the stars already have guaranteed salaries this year.
    Barry Waller

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    Re: Ramds Cap situation and possible moves available

    When I add up all of the cap hits listed for the Rams in 2013, using the top 51, which is all that count, the last 21 all get $480,000, the minimum.

    The other 30 count $97 million.

    This includes Cook and Hayes new deals.

    I don't think the Rams have a bunch of "dead money" from guys no longer here, so it would appear that the Rams, based on a 123 million cap, have $16 million in cap space now, with $6.5 or so needed to sign their draft picks. However, since five of thos picks will get the same as the bottom 21 guys now listed, only about $4.5 million will actually be needed, for the top three picks.

    That should leave t he Rams $11.5 million as we speak. A Jake Long deal would be a $6-$7 million hit year one probably, figuring $30 million tops guaranteed, maybe even $20 million.

    That means even if they do Long, they would still have $5 million left for more free agents, and enough to draft.

    Replacing a bottom 20 guy with a veteran free agent, one of those one year deals, probably takes up no more than $1.5 million or so, While a top guy such as Cook is more like $4 million.

    If Long doesn't sign, and they don't go with a big pay guy, the Rams have $11.5 million to sign THREE or FOUR starting caliber players at safety or LB, or even RB.
    Barry Waller

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