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  1. #16
    PeoriaRam's Avatar
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofGod View Post
    While I agree with the first part of your post, I must disagree with the last statement...at this point play to lose! We need the #1 pick so we can draft Suh.
    Agreed. We're out $60-70 million in the first round regardless of how this team finished, so really its in the franchise's best interests to lose out and ensure they get Suh.

    In fact, I'm not entirely opposed to an offense that consists solely of Samkon Gado draws for the last three games if that is what it takes.


  2. #17
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    Agreed. We're out $60-70 million in the first round regardless of how this team finished, so really its in the franchise's best interests to lose out and ensure they get Suh.

    In fact, I'm not entirely opposed to an offense that consists solely of Samkon Gado draws for the last three games if that is what it takes.
    Yeah. Let's bring up our practice squad players, start them, and punt on first down each possession.

    It never ceases to amaze me how fans actually find merit in the "let's lose to get a better draft choice" attitude.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -12-16-2009 at 08:03 PM.

  3. #18
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Because there are 53 players on the roster, all of whom have worked hard in training camp and practice, and all of whom (presumably) want to be rewarded by having an opportunity to win games.

    Also, let's not forget that we're talking about a 6th round draft choice taken from a minor college program. If the Rams had taken a QB in the first 2 rounds and viewed that guy as their "heir apparent," there might be some justification for putting a guy like that out there with the hope that he actually might be the best QB on the roster.

    Null - notwithstanding his poise in the face of a 40 point loss resulting, in part, from his multiple interceptions - is not a guy who was brought in as a Blue Chip prospect.

    Could he be the next Kurt Warner, Tom Brady or even Tony Romo? Well, anything's possible. But, right now, there are a lot of young players who need to learn to win. I'm not willing to put the needs of one guy - particularly Keith Null - above all of them.
    First off: Great posts by both Infiniti and Avenger! Two conflicting viewpoints both articulated very well.

    I don't know if a banged up Boller or even a healthy Boller gives us the best chance to win. I surely don't know if Null gives us the best chance either. But when it is said that a coach must always do what's best for the team, there appears to be a gray area in what's best right now - winning maybe one more game in a meaningless season, or what's best for the team in the long run - i.e. finding out what our 6th rounder is capable of in live games. If the great majority of the team believes in Boller (which is at the least questionable), then surely this would not be lost on Spags, but I doubt that's the case. If it wasn't for that idiot Incognito, our last game might have been much closer. We'll never know, but it is possible a majority of the 53 players may feel that Keith can bring a spark.

    I see no reason why Null shouldn't start as long as he's healthy .. If he proves not to be what the coaches are looking for why not find out now before the advent of free agency and the subsequent 2010 draft? Besides, there's always the chance he can deliver a win ...

  4. #19
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    Let me make sure I'm clear on one thing...

    Let's say Spags called me up and asked "Avenger, who should we start at QB?

    My response would be "Who do you think gives the team a better chance at winning."

    If he said, "same chance with either," then I would tell him to start Null.

  5. #20
    PeoriaRam's Avatar
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Yeah. Let's bring up our practice squad players, start them, and punt on first down each possession.

    It never ceases to amaze me how fans actually find merit in the "let's lose to get a better draft choice" attidude.
    It's more, let's lose to get something that we're 95% sure will pan out for once in our lives.

    What do we do if we're drafting 3 or 4? Take a flyer on one of 10 mediocre QB prospects? Reach for Dez Bryant? Pay out the wazzoo for Eric Berry? That's the difference between 2-14 and 1-15. By looking at it from anything beyond the very short term, losing out is to our benefit.

  6. #21
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    It's more, let's lose to get something that we're 95% sure will pan out for once in our lives.

    What do we do if we're drafting 3 or 4? Take a flyer on one of 10 mediocre QB prospects? Reach for Dez Bryant? Pay out the wazzoo for Eric Berry? That's the difference between 2-14 and 1-15. By looking at it from anything beyond the very short term, losing out is to our benefit.
    If more people thought that way, my response would be to advocate for an NBA-style draft lottery.

    Teams should never play to lose. Never.

  7. #22
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    If more people thought that way, my response would be to advocate for an NBA-style draft lottery.

    Teams should never play to lose. Never.
    Or we should get a rookie salary scale that limits top picks to something in the $20-25 million range for their first contract. The financial stakes of the draft are such that whiffing on a pick, or even "sort of" whiffing (ie Chris Long if he levels out at where he is now, Jason Smith if his head injuries take a really bad/consistent turn) can severely stunt rebuilding efforts.

    My stance about losing is pretty much the result of how much a top 5 pick is getting paid. There's only one guy out there who might be worth that money, and it is in the Rams' interest to ensure they get him.

  8. #23
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    Wow, Keith Null getting the love from the fan base, even after throwing a slew of interceptions, I like it! I'd like to see Null start again too. There is just some inherent quality about him that makes me want to see more. Mechanics, reading defenses, picking up the speed of the game, timing - that can all be taught and developed, the grace under pressure and ability to stay calm when chaos swirls around can not, and Null has that. Teammates being impressed despite the rough start is a big plus too.

    As far as wanting the Rams to lose, for any reason, is a concept I will never, ever understand.

  9. #24
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Wow, Keith Null getting the love from the fan base, even after throwing a slew of interceptions, I like it! I'd like to see Null start again too. There is just some inherent quality about him that makes me want to see more. Mechanics, reading defenses, picking up the speed of the game, timing - that can all be taught and developed, the grace under pressure and ability to stay calm when chaos swirls around can not, and Null has that. Teammates being impressed despite the rough start is a big plus too.

    As far as wanting the Rams to lose, for any reason, is a concept I will never, ever understand.
    INT's thrown by a 6th round pick from a small school mean little to me, particularly in his first start. He was playing from behind, with Jackson not generating much prodcution. No rookie should have to throw it 43 times. He was clearly in rhythm early on, only to have crucial penalties and vanilla playcalling take away his groove ...

    His poise in the pocket, praise from teammates and coaches, and ability to sling the ball downfield do mean something. Shurmur did some things in the 1st quarter that I haven't seen. Wonder if it has anything to do with Null's arm and potential ability ...

    In regard to Avenger saying he's seen nothing that indicates Null could be a successful NFL QB, you've only seen one game. What have you seen from Boller that lends the same? He's coming off major shoulder surgery, has seemingly lost arm strength, is shaky in the pocket, and is inaccurate ...

    I think it's crucial to see how Null reacts to the adversity of last weeks performance. He's most certainly getting most the reps this week ...

    I honestly think that what Spags says in regards to Boller starting if he is healthy is simply out of respect for the veteran. I would be shocked if Null does not start this week ...

  10. #25
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    It's been touched on some in this thread and I think it is a good point to make in all of this, Nulls teamates are impressed with him. I think at the end of the day if the team feels he should start and that Null is their guy for the rest of the year then I think Spags has to play him. Not to say that the inmates should run the asylum but it could kill what little morale there is on the team if Spags starts a QB the team isn't in favor of. That's just my opinion for what it's worth. Also I wouldn't not play Null just because he threw 5 pics in a game, Warner, Sanchez, Stafford and Cutler all did the same thing this year and wouldn't start Boller over any of them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  11. #26
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    I want to lose now...in this season alone...because I want the team to stop losing in the future. Is that really so hard a concept to grasp. Shoot, most of the people here seem to think we should treat games as evaluation opportunities anyway; that mentality is pretty much first cousin to actively trying to lose.

    This the first year I am of the opinion because there is FINALLY a home run guy to take early. In 2007 I wanted to win out in order to save money on the draft and because there was no player worth the money we would pay out. In 2008 I wanted to win out in order to save money on the draft and because there was no player worth the money we would pay out. This year there is no way to save money on the draft (realistically) and there is ONE player worth the money we would pay out.

  12. #27
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    INT's thrown by a 6th round pick from a small school mean little to me, particularly in his first start. He was playing from behind, with Jackson not generating much prodcution. No rookie should have to throw it 43 times. He was clearly in rhythm early on, only to have crucial penalties and vanilla playcalling take away his groove ...
    I agree with you, and I'll bet everybody who supports the idea of starting Null also agree, and are not concerned with the interceptions. That was pretty much the point I was making, although I didn't articulate it as well as you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    I want to lose now...in this season alone...because I want the team to stop losing in the future. Is that really so hard a concept to grasp.
    For me it is, and odds are it is for Spags and the entire team too.

  13. #28
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    I really haven't seen what's to love about Null. He had poise, yes. He got knocked around a bit and brushed himself off. But his deep ball didn't look pretty at all (the few times he had a chance to loft it out there). Didn't even think his intermediate 15-20 yard ball looked that great.
    Let's face it, with a brand new starting line this weekend, if Boller is healthy and has the ability to run for his life, by all means, let him!

  14. #29
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    I want to lose now...in this season alone...because I want the team to stop losing in the future. Is that really so hard a concept to grasp. Shoot, most of the people here seem to think we should treat games as evaluation opportunities anyway; that mentality is pretty much first cousin to actively trying to lose.

    This the first year I am of the opinion because there is FINALLY a home run guy to take early. In 2007 I wanted to win out in order to save money on the draft and because there was no player worth the money we would pay out. In 2008 I wanted to win out in order to save money on the draft and because there was no player worth the money we would pay out. This year there is no way to save money on the draft (realistically) and there is ONE player worth the money we would pay out.
    In 30 plus years I have NEVER wanted the Rams to lose, but Suh just might be worth it.

  15. #30
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    Re: Rams coaches MUST do the right thing and start Null again this week ....

    When you put it into perspective like that losing for the cause doesnt sound bad. The question arises though will the Bucs win another game?

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