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  1. #1
    chiguy's Avatar
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    Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    In a thread posted on here two weeks ago discussing the defense, I said that they were clearly improved but that we should temper our excitement because we hadn't been playing very good offenses. Yesterday, we faced a pretty good offense so I thought it would be a good time to revisit the subject.

    Although we didn't get torched yesterday, I do think it showed that we had a way to go. First, despite shutting down the passing game, I think we can all agree that some of that has to do with the fact with the weather yesterday. The CBs played decently except for a few notable lapses (the dropped INT, e.g.), but I'd like to see them play that well in decent weather before I get *too* excited. The visions of Lenny Walls getting burned in Dallas are too recent for me to fall completely for these guys just yet. We also really need a safety who can come up and cover too.

    Second, we have no pass rush. Although we didn't blitz a ton yesterday, the Bengals offensive line did a good job of keeping us away from Palmer. Indeed, it showed that if our blitzes get picked up right now that we can't generate much pressure on the QB. If we got more from the ends in particular, it would help the defense take that next step.

    Finally, despite much improved play by the interior defensive line, they still have work to do. They absolutely got manhandled in the 4th quarter yesterday. Carricker is for real and Ryan is proably -- at worst -- a very good rotational player. Still, we need at least one other guy we can count on. I wonder if they've considered getting Adeyanju some reps at DT because he seems made for running downs and is a reliable tackler.

    In short, while the defense is obviously better, we're still a couple of players away from being "good" in my opinion. I'd really love to see a playmaking defensive end, better rotational depth on the interior line, and another safety. Interestingly, linebacker is at the bottom of my list...when was the last time we weren't concerned about linebackers?


  2. #2
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    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    Good post. I agree with all of your points. I think our D will be a force when our O sucks next year b/c Losehan is back. I'd like to see a DE/S/CB added... but mostly I am still think about another blitz heavy LB.

  3. #3
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    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    Without Little, our pass rush suffers and yesterday it showed. There are going to be times during the season when the rush defense breaks down and yesterday was it. However, that was really the first game the defense gave up big yards against the run so I think it was just one of those days.

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    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    I disagree, Hill was out he is our best young CB. Tino was out, Little out. Our O was we no help for the D. Wade to me played ok for a young rookie. Ryan is better then just a good rotational player,he has played well all year.

    The D looked flat to me Sunday, I think that was the worst game they played all year.

    We also really need a safety who can come up and cover too.
    Here I agree with you.

    Add SS and DE.

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    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post

    The D looked flat to me Sunday, I think that was the worst game they played all year.
    The "D" looked flat???? They kept us in the game and scored our only Touchdown.:beer:

  6. #6
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    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    This D is extremely improved from last year. How in the world can anyone say this was the worst game the D has played all year? Palmer averaged like 6.0 YPA and had a QB rating of 60.9. Other than the 52 yard pass to Ocho Cinco, he was terrible. He was very efficient at getting passes off with pressure in his face. There were points during the game where we were getting after him pretty good ...

    There is no doubt that is defensive front four got worn down yesterday. That is to be expected when the opponents have 36 rushing attempts and are on the field for long periods of times ...

    Our defensive backs are a strength of this team. However, there is one glaring problem back there and it is Corey Chavous, who has gotten a little slow with his age. This is why we consistently get burned by change of pace backs. It's not the front four's responsibility to bottle these guys up. It is usually the responsibility of the safety. When the DeDe Dorsey's of the league take pitches and bounce outside, there is no doubt the front four and the LB's are going to be contained. It is the responsibiltiy of the DB's and safeties to cover these plays. Otogwe is a gamer, but Chavous needs to be upgraded ...

    Chris Draft. Wow, he was a beast yesterday. If Pisa comes back and we resign Chillar, we've got a solid, if not very good, linebacking core. Chillar was huge again, with 7 tackles and 2 tackles for loss ...

    This defense has the potential to be very very good next year. James Hall has been a solid pickup, and has been in the backfield alot this year. If Leonard Little comes back healthy, we get a young stuf on the edge, and our young players continue to progress, watch out!

  7. #7
    moloch41 Guest

    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    In the beginning, it looked like we would get shredded after the Rudi johnson TD, but they seemed to settle down after that. Unfortunately, during the most important drive of the game in the 4th quarter, the Bengals ran the ball against us at will and wound up kicking the FG that put them up by two scores. I would have liked to see a more aggressive gameplan by Haslett- especially with Hill out and a 3rd string QB starting on offense, but I'd say that they played well overall. And what is up with the DBs dropping so many INTs this season??? It's like an Adam Archuleta flashback every week!!!

  8. #8
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    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    Again, DB's dropping INT's is a problem all across the league. That's why they are DB's and not WR's. If DB's caught every INT that went to them, QB's would average 25 INT's a season ...

    Look at Bartell's INT, that was a great grab! It all happened in a split second ...

    Our secondary has developed very nicely, IMHO. QB's are completing 59.6% of their passes against us, 7.00 YPA, and a 80.6 QB rating. This basically means QB's are very average against us, and we've made some very good ones look bad ... i.e.. Hasselbeck, Palmer ...

  9. #9
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    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Without Little, our pass rush suffers and yesterday it showed.
    With Little our pass rush wasn't much to write home about this season. Even at his best, the Leonard Little of today isn't what he was just a few years ago. DE is the biggest need on the defensive end of the football and, arguably, has been for a couple of years.

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    There are going to be times during the season when the rush defense breaks down and yesterday was it. However, that was really the first game the defense gave up big yards against the run so I think it was just one of those days.
    Carolina, week #1 -- 186 yards, 4.9 ypc, 0TD
    Tampa, week #3 -- 182 yards, 5.7 ypc, 3TD
    Dallas, week #4 -- 171 yards, 5.2 ypc, 2TD
    Cleveland, week #8 -- 132 yards, 4.6 ypc, 0 TD
    Atlanta, week #11 -- 111 yards, 6.2 ypc, 0TD
    Cincinnatti, week #12 -- 192 yards, 5.3 ypc, 1 TD

    I don't see how you can say that this was "really the first game the defense gave up big yards against the run." I've listed the 6 worst games against the run we've had and at least three of them are comparable to what happened yesterday. I also didn't list 2 of the other games where the opponent rushed for 100 yards against us (making it 8/12 in which the opponent rushed for more than 100).

    While I agree that our run defense is much improved, what I was trying to point out was that we're still not quite there. Perhaps the reason it looks better is that we were simply horrible the last few years, so this just looks great by comparison. But it isn't great; its merely better.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic about our improvement and think things are definitely looking up. But we're not "there" yet. And, with respect to run defense, we still need at least couple of defensive linemen and a safety.

  10. #10
    jkramsfan Guest

    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    we may have a ways to go but we are going in the right direction,did you see Carriker bust up that screen pass yesterday,I think the fact that they were able to run late was that the defense was worn out, they spend to much time on the field,when your offense only scores 3 points the defense is on the field to much,in fact they outscored our offense yesterday,so we still need a few parts but I like where we are headed.

  11. #11
    RamsInfiniti's Avatar
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    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    2004 - 136.2 YPG, 4.6 YPC
    2005 - 136.1 YPG, 4.7 YPC
    2006 - 145.4 YPG, 4.9 YPC
    2007 - 115.7 YPG, 4.2 YPC

    It's not smoke and mirrors, it's huge improvement. Further, we have not allowed a single 100 yard rusher all season (havent allowed a 100 yard back in 14 straight games). Go back and look at the box scores and you'll see that the big majority of big gainer runs are given up to change of pace backs like Norwood and Dorsey. For the most part, we've bottled up every starting running back we've faced. Rudi Johnson had the best game of the season by a starting RB against us with 23 carries for 92 yards ...

    We need safety help against these speedy backs and Chavous just cannot do it ....

    The rushing numbers against us are a little deceiving, due in part to giving up 94 yards on 8 carries to Norwood and 80+ yards on 4 carries to Dorsey ...

    We need to get better at tackling runners in the open field, and containing outside. With that said, you cannot blame some of these big gainers on the front four or LB's. At some point, the secondary has to be accountable for what is going on in the running game ...

  12. #12
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    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    219 carries, 735 yards ...

    3.5 YPC ...

    This is what we've given up to the starting RB of opponents this year ...

  13. #13
    moloch41 Guest

    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    I think we're at a point where we're not necessarily embarrassing ourselves anymore, but I don't think teams fear to play us either. I want to see our defense really have an impact on the game and force teams to adjust to us rather than the other way around. I want to be at a point of where Tampa's and Baltimore's defenses were a few years back and I'm just not convinced that Haslett is that type of guy anymore. I think he's gotten more conservative in his old age...

  14. #14
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    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    The "D" looked flat???? They kept us in the game and scored our only Touchdown.
    Yeah I know they kept us in the game. But they gave up 195 yards on the ground. The rain was more a factor in that cinny did not have more passing for yards, but they gave up a hugh deep passing play. Only one sack and not really to many hit on the QB.

    2007 - 115.7 YPG, 4.2 YPC we gave up 195 yards sunday that how, I can say it was the worst they looked. We almost gave up 100 yards to two running backs in one game.

    How in the world can anyone say this was the worst game the D has played all year? Palmer averaged like 6.0 YPA and had a QB rating of 60.9.
    I wonder if you guys see the games sometimes. It was a down pour, rainny mess, running the ball was the key,
    Last edited by Rambos; -12-10-2007 at 02:58 PM.

  15. #15
    chiguy's Avatar
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    Re: Rams defense...we still have a ways to go

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    2004 - 136.2 YPG, 4.6 YPC
    2005 - 136.1 YPG, 4.7 YPC
    2006 - 145.4 YPG, 4.9 YPC
    2007 - 115.7 YPG, 4.2 YPC
    I agree that we're headed in the right direction. I'm just trying to make sure people understand we haven't reached the destination.

    The rushing numbers against us are a little deceiving, due in part to giving up 94 yards on 8 carries to Norwood and 80+ yards on 4 carries to Dorsey ...
    What's deceptive about yards gained on the ground by running backs?

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