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    Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    .
    The Chiefs, with Glenn Dorsey, may break the NFL all-time low record record
    for sacks in season - I think they have nine all year.

    And there's this:

    Between The Lines: Alan Faneca Takes Glenn Dorsey to School

    JJ Cooper Oct 30th 2008 10:30AM

    Every Thursday we take a close look at line play in one NFL game. Click here for all of the Between The Lines.

    When Glenn Dorsey came out of college last year, he was considered the best interior defensive line in the draft, a havoc-creating defensive tackle who would not only create plays of his own, but also require enough attention to help make everyone else on the defensive line better.

    The scouting reports were effusive in their praise:

    Dorsey's dominance should go a long way toward helping Kansas City rebuild its defense. He should command double-teams and the Chiefs become better up the middle instantly. There were some concerns about problems with Dorsey's tibia stress fracture, which may have been the reason he was still on the board at this point. His best traits are outstanding agility and a great motor.

    The Chiefs picked Dorsey with the No. 5 pick. Since many expected Dorsey to go even higher, the Chiefs were hailed for getting a steal. While that was the scouting report coming out of Louisiana State, it's hard to see much of that when you watch Dorsey against the Jets. Dorsey was facing a tough matchup, as Jets left guard Alan Faneca is one of the best guards in the league. But if this was a heavyweight fight between Dorsey and Faenca, it would have been called early in the first quarter.

    Dorsey finished with one tackle, which came downfield on a pass play. Dorsey got one hit on Jets quarterback Brett Favre, which came on a play where Favre held the ball too long. But generally, Dorsey was completely dominated by Faneca, and he never soaked up the double-teams that the Chiefs hope he will receive as he develops -- Faneca didn't need any help.

    Dorsey played 48 of the 66 snaps for the Chiefs defense. He did show the motor that he showed at LSU. I only saw one instance in those 48 snaps where Dorsey gave up on a play before the play was over, and that was on an end-around that was to the other side of the field. On passes to the flats or over the middle, Dorsey would consistently chase the ball, even when he was 10 yards away from the play.

    That was the best attribute he showed; what was disconcerting was his complete lack of pass rushing moves. Dorsey was not quick enough to beat Faneca off the snap, and when Faneca locked him up, Dorsey didn't have a large arsenal of moves to try to get free. In 32 pass plays, Dorsey never tried a spin move, and he rarely tried a swim move or a rip to disengage from Faneca. Usually, he tried to simply bull rush Faneca, which never worked. In fact, Dorsey didn't show the power to even move Faneca off the line of scrimmage. Defensive tackles aren't expected to get a lot of sacks, but they are asked to push the pocket into the quarterback, which prevents the quarterback from stepping up into the pocket if he's avoiding outside pressure.

    On play after play, Dorsey was left churning his legs at the line while the rest of the Chiefs front four fired upfield. Dorsey's lack of push stood out, although it actually resulted in Dorsey's only tackle of the game. On a dumpoff pass to Leon Washington over the middle of the field, Dorsey was in position to make the tackle because he had gotten no penetration. So when Washington caught the pass three yards past the line of scrimmage, Dorsey only had to turn around and caught up to Washington as he tried to dodge a tackler.

    I counted only one running plays (in 16 attempts) where Dorsey made any impact at all. On an end around to Brad Smith, Faneca was asked to pull. That left a gap for Dorsey to shoot through and he read the play nicely, almost getting a hand on Smith as he ran by.

    The bad plays by Dorsey were more numerous. A couple of times, Faneca took advantage of Dorsey's aggresiveness, allowing him to shoot the outside or inside gap on running plays designed to hit another gap. Dorsey would aggressively fire upfield, but Faneca would allow him a step, then used his hands to turn Dorsey and drove him out of the play by using Dorsey's momentum against him.

    Dorsey was also suckered on an 18-yard screen pass for a touchdown in the first quarter. Faneca gave a quick shove to Dorsey, then pulled out to set up for the screen. Dorsey should have realized that something was up, as it was the only time he had gotten free to rush the passer all day, but he fired into the backfield anyway, opening up a big gap that helped allow Washington to easily gallop into the end zone. To Dorsey's credit, he learned from the mistake and properly read the next screen the Jets ran.

    But as the game went on, you could see Dorsey realizing he was completely outclassed. In the second half, Faneca put Dorsey on the ground on two plays. On the first one, Dorsey fired out too low, which meant he wasn't fully balanced. Faneca took advantage using his left hand to shove Dorsey to the ground before kneeling on top of him. As Dorsey laid on the ground like a beaten wrestler, Thomas Jones ran for 17 yards through the gap Faneca had created.

    I went back and watched some of last week's game against the Titans to see if this was an aberration for Dorsey. Unfortunately it wasn't. Dorsey showed some better pass rush moves against the Titans, but he was a liability in the running game, as the Titans ran at him successfully. On several different occasions, Dorsey was tossed to the ground to create massive holes for the Titans running game.

    The Chiefs defensive scheme isn't doing Dorsey much favors--I counted only one stunt that the Chiefs ran with Dorsey in 32 pass plays. When defensive linemen aren't generating pressure by physically beating their man (and the Chiefs had only one sack), stunts and line twists can help get someone a free shot at the quarterback. In the Chiefs case, that isn't happening.

    Between The Lines: Alan Faneca Takes Glenn Dorsey to School - NFL FanHouse

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    Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    .
    Chiefs on the verge of setting NFL record for fewest sacks
    By ADAM TEICHER
    The Kansas City Star

    Defensive end Turk McBride and his cohorts on the defensive line have sacked quarterbacks only nine times this season.
    DAVID EULITT | The Kansas City Star
    Defensive end Turk McBride and his cohorts on the defensive line have sacked quarterbacks only nine times this season.


    Their feeble pass rush is one subject the Chiefs would prefer not to discuss as they prepare for Sunday’s final regular-season game at Cincinnati.

    “That’s not the kind of thing we’re talking about around here,” linebacker Demorrio Williams said.

    Unpleasant topic or not, the 2-13 Chiefs are on the verge of setting an NFL record for fewest sacks. They have only nine, and the 16-game season record is 13, set by the 2-14 Baltimore Colts in 1981.

    About the only encouragement the Chiefs have for their capacity to avoid the record is that the Bengals can give up the sacks. They’ve allowed 50, the third-highest total in the league.

    “We can get it done,” said defensive end Tamba Hali, the Chiefs’ leader with three sacks. “I’d rather win. I’d rather have both, but if I have to choose, I’d take a win.”

    Then again, the Bengals might not provide the Chiefs a chance to avoid the record. Cincinnati got an early lead in last week’s win over Cleveland and let quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick throw only nine passes. The Browns didn’t get a sack.

    Although he’s gone down 37 times in his 11 games as Cincinnati’s quarterback, Fitzpatrick can be an elusive target. His ability to escape a rush is similar to that of Chiefs quarterback Tyler Thigpen.

    Cincinnati’s high sack total is more on an injured and ineffective offensive line than Fitzpatrick.

    “If Fitz wasn’t playing, we’d probably have more sacks,” Bengals receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh said. “With him being so athletic and being able to move around in the pocket so well, if he wasn’t playing, the sack total would even be higher.”

    The league record for most sacks is 72, and that seems more plausible than nine. An opposing quarterback might fall down behind the line of scrimmage nine times in a season.

    That hasn’t happened against the Chiefs this season, which is why getting the five necessary sacks to avoid at least a share of the record would require a most unlikely outburst.

    The Chiefs had three sacks in a game against San Diego earlier this month, a season high. Otherwise, they have two games with two sacks, two with one and 10 with none.

    “It’s frustrating,” linebacker Derrick Johnson said. “It is what it is. We’re not going to go out and try to get five sacks. We’re going to go out there and play our game and try to win.”

    Getting to such a forlorn place took last spring’s trade of Jared Allen to Minnesota and then the major miscalculation that they could replace his league-leading 15 1/2 sacks of last year.

    The Chiefs had no illusions they would all come from one place but thought that among Hali, Johnson, Williams, Donnie Edwards, Alfonso Boone and Glenn Dorsey they could get to 15 1/2 and then some.

    Those players combined for 6 1/2 sacks. Jason Babin and Ron Edwards each have a sack, and Pat Thomas has a half.

    “Losing a guy like (Allen), you knew we’d go down,” Johnson said. “You didn’t think we’d go down like that.

    “We were moving some stuff around early in the year, and then we started getting injuries here and there. Our focus kind of got off getting sacks. It’s been hard for us.”

    The Chiefs moved Hali into Allen’s spot as the designated pass rusher at right end, but from the start he never looked comfortable. Finally, they gave up on that experiment, and he returned to his former position at left end.

    “The mindset on the right is so much different,” Hali said. “When I’m on the right, I should be rushing the passer regardless every down. When I was on the right, I was playing the run when I felt it was a run and playing the pass when I thought it was a pass. When Jared was here, pass or run, he was rushing the passer. You can’t bench a guy who was putting the quarterback down two or three times a game. I don’t have that mindset. It’s harder unless all you want to do is pass rush.

    “We miss Jared, but it’s not like we don’t have our pieces. What Jared did was extraordinary, but we need to play as a group. If we don’t play as a group, we make a lot of mistakes across the board. I don’t want to keep repeating the same thing over and over: ‘We’re young,’ and this and that. But sooner or later, we need to get it.”

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    Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    .

    Looks like KC, who will be sparring with us for the second pick in the draft, has good reason to be looking hard at Defensive linemen with that pick too (in addition to them being interested in a QB).



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    Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    The real sad news is that his 1 sack and 1 forced fumble is more then our 3 DT's combined. His 31 tackle total was higher also.
    Carriker 0 sacks 0 FF's 19 tackles
    Ryan 0 sacks 0 FF's 21 tackles
    Glover .5 sacks 0 FF's 20 tackles

    The good news is Long at this point still looks like the better pick and his stats are better.
    Long 4 sacks 1 FF 32 tackles
    Last edited by RamsSB99; -12-26-2008 at 07:17 PM.

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    Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    K.C. is the perfect example on how top 10 picks are ruined playing for teams with too many needs. Pity any college star heading to the Oakland and perhaps Houston. The Saints use to have that curse. And its a danger the Rams face. Not being able to keep and develop top draft picks.

    Fact is the Rams need to trade down and pickup help (lots of it). Trading there top pick (either 2nd or 3rd) for 2 second round picks and go after players for the OLine. Its easier on the salary cap and allows more money for free agency.

    Only problem is I don't see anyone going into free agency on the radar worth having

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    Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    .
    I questioned his (Dorsey's) ability to pass rush coming out. I think he'll be a good
    run defender in time. I thought the Pass rush stuff was Media hoopla.

    However, this great lack of sacks (all time Low potentially) is crucial to the
    Rams strategy. KC may pick before us - and this great need on their part,
    may neutralize any negative impact of them drafting before us.

    Of course, we'd be better off at number 2, where teams would be interested in taking a QB - something K.C. will be looking at too.

    We are going to have to focus on the O-line.

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    Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    .


    The first Offensive Tackle in a draft is position where there are few misses and busts too. It's certainly a place where you can pick up a long-time Pro Bowler. I'm thinking along the lines of Anthony Munoz with 'Bama OT Smith.

    .
    Last edited by Tony Soprano; -12-26-2008 at 01:45 AM.

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    Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    Everyone knows I was a big Dorsey supporter prior to the draft, and I have followed his career up until this point. It does not take a year to evaluate a draft, and even if Dorsey had been doing better than Long up until this point I would say the same thing. The main problem with Glenn in my eyes is that he is thinking far too much before the snap rather than just reacting and playing like he did at LSU. He EXPLODED off the snap in college and it looked like he didn't judge a play or over analyze what was going to happen. However, now it looks like he is fearful of over pursuing certain plays, not completely sure or confident of the moves hes going to use therefore he does not get good jump off the snap like he should. Also, KC is having him line up over the guard instead of in between the gap where he would shoot through in college and wreak havoc. Call it poor coaching technique, I guess.

    With all that said, he has NOT been injured once this season and has not missed a single game which was the major gripe with everyone here. Everyone was afraid he was an injury waiting to happen and he has proven everyone wrong, and it has actually been his fellow draft mate Sedrick Ellis who has already missed games due to injury. He did not miss a game in college, has not missed a game in the pros, and who knows maybe he is playing injured and not telling the coaching staff because that is the will and drive he has to play every Sunday.
    Last edited by Bald_81; -12-26-2008 at 02:22 AM.

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    Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    I'm still glad that we got Long over Dorsey. Long is showing major potential. Dorsey will eventually develope into a good player, but Long is showing more dominance in the rookie season.

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    Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    One player can make an impact, but unless he has others on his team that pose a threat, that elite player is all to easily neutralized. Dorsey still might be an elite player, but if no other on that defense steps up, we will never know.

    The beauty of football is that its a team sport. Anyone remember Iron Mike Dicka's draft of Ricky Williams? Or the Vikings deal with Dallas to get H. Walker? Its a lesson the Rams need to keep in the back of their minds, and hope another team is stupid enough to forget that lesson
    ....one can hope can't they?

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    Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsSB99 View Post
    The real sad news is that his 1 sack and 1 forced fumble is more then our 3 DT's combined. His 31 tackle total was higher also.
    Long 0 sacks 0 FF's 19 tackles
    Ryan 0 sacks 0 FF's 21 tackles
    Glover .5 sacks 0 FF's 20 tackles

    The good news is Long at this point still looks like the better pick and his stats are better.
    Long 4 sacks 1 FF 32 tackles
    Uh...a couple of questions, please.

    1.) You have written "Long 0 sacks 0 FF's and 19 Tackles" did you mean to say A. Carriker?

    2.) You also said "His 1 sack and 1 forced fumble..." are you referring to Glen Dorsey here?
    Please explain.

    WHAT SAY YE?

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    Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    Yes Long has four sacks? Are these stats skewed?
    "The disappointment of losing is huge!"

    Jack Youngblood

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    Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    Too soon to judge either Dorsey or Long, really. That being said, I think we've probably seen more to be hopeful about with Long than Chiefs fans have about Dorsey.

    It does, however, sound as if he's being misused by the Chiefs' coaching staff. Recent article out of KC...

    Someone should be fired for the way the Chiefs are using Dorsey
    By JASON WHITLOCK
    The Kansas City Star
    Posted on Sun, Dec. 21, 2008

    After the Chiefs’ latest loss — a 38-31 thriller to the Dolphins courtesy of Kansas City’s three-point second-half explosion — I intended to write a column summarizing what progress has been made this season.

    It was going to be a very short story. But then, as I was standing in the corner waiting to get a private word with Herm Edwards, a squatty, would-be linebacker/fullback walked by me on the way to the shower. Tattooed on the back of his shoulders were six rather large letters D-O-R-S-E-Y.

    “That’s Glenn Dorsey, the Chiefs’ No. 1 draft pick?”

    The realization totally blew my mind. Oh, I’ve seen Dorsey plenty in the locker room after games. But never barefoot. And never without a clear view of his face. Until Sunday, I had no clue that Glenn Dorsey is a shade below 6 feet tall. You put him in a police lineup with other NFL players, and you peg him as a plodding fullback. He’s Lorenzo Neal.

    Now Dorsey’s disappointing season makes perfect sense, and the case to retain Herm Edwards and his coaching staff gets even more difficult to argue.

    What in the hell are they doing playing Dorsey straight-up over a guard?

    This is the single-worst, defensive-strategy decision I’ve seen in 15 years of covering the NFL. Honestly, defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham and defensive-line coach Tim Krumrie should be fired today and not allowed to travel to Cincinnati for the season finale.

    And Herm Edwards owes Clark Hunt a detailed explanation of why he allowed Dorsey’s rookie season to be wasted by a boneheaded scheme. Short of Cunningham and Krumrie owning compromising blackmail photos of Edwards, Hunt has no choice but to promptly relieve Edwards of his responsibilities.

    You don’t draft a 5-foot-11, 300-pound defensive tackle at No. 5 overall, give him $20-plus million in guaranteed money and then ask him to be a run-stuffer lined head-up over a guard.

    For those of you who know little about line play, it’s the equivalent of the Indianapolis Colts turning Peyton Manning into an option quarterback. If Indianapolis did that, Colts fans would justifiably rush the field and trample Tony Dungy and his offensive coaching staff.

    Dorsey is listed at 6-1, 297 pounds. Even at those dimensions, the strategy is asininely inappropriate. But if Dorsey is 6-1, then I’m the ******* son of Carl Peterson and Oprah Winfrey.

    Dorsey is a butterball, a Jerry Ball, a three-technique tackle who should line up on the outside shoulder of the guard and explode upfield. That’s the only way he can be successful in the NFL. As long as he lines up helmet to helmet with a guard, he’ll remain a line-of-scrimmage statue.

    “He has no chance in pass rush,” guard Brian Waters told me. “I love it when a guy lines head-up.”

    Members of the Chiefs’ scouting department have blamed Dorsey’s subpar rookie season on the extra weight they allege he’s carrying. I’ve been told on two separate occasions that KC’s scouting department evaluated a 300-pounder who is now playing at 315. The personnel guys stand behind their evaluation of Dorsey, the insinuation being a lighter Dorsey would be a more effective Dorsey.

    “The way we’re playing him, he better be 315,” Waters said. “He would get destroyed in the run game at 300.”

    Given his size and style of play at LSU, there’s only one justification for taking Dorsey at No. 5: You believe he has a chance to be the kind of backfield-disrupter that Warren Sapp (6-1, 300 in his prime) was. Sapp used his explosiveness, quickness and power to get in gaps and force the action.

    The Chiefs are using Dorsey as if he’s Albert Haynesworth, the 6-6, 320-pound Tennessee Pro Bowler. Haynesworth goes wherever he wants on the football field. He takes whatever space he desires.

    I have no idea whether the right scheme would improve Dorsey’s production. I question his footwork, quickness and explosion. Maybe those shortcomings would disappear with weight loss and being asked to do what he’s capable.

    I do know this season may have damaged him permanently. Competition is a game of confidence. Walking into that locker room and watching film of getting blown up week after week can be demoralizing to any player.

    This is simply inexcusable. Most high school coaches would know better than to use Dorsey the way the Chiefs have this season. Dorsey’s use indicates a level of dysfunction between the coaching staff and personnel department that is mind-boggling.

    Rather than sort through the mess and try to discern who’s to blame for the poor communication, Hunt has every right to blow up everyone and start over.
    Hopefully this is something a new coaching staff or position coach can turn around, because he's not going to do anything for them in this role IMO.

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    Thumbs up Re: Rams Drafting: Chiefs going for all-time NFL Low Record Sacks

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    Uh...a couple of questions, please.

    1.) You have written "Long 0 sacks 0 FF's and 19 Tackles" did you mean to say A. Carriker?
    Your correct, I will go back and edit my post thank you for catching that.

    2.) You also said "His 1 sack and 1 forced fumble..." are you referring to Glen Dorsey here?
    yes

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