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  1. #16
    NJ Ramsfan1 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    You're completely missing the point if you think Barry was saying you can't voice your opinion at all. The point is that opinions should be tempered by the realization that, as a fan, your knowledge of the situation is extremely limited. Not only do fans not have access to the kind of information organizations do, but they also don't have the experience within the league either.

    That's not to say fans never get it right or that organizations never get it wrong, or that those topics shouldn't be discussed, but fans who approach news as if their opinion on the topic is certified fact and they know better than everyone bring little of value to the table.

    Yes, and MY POINT is that we fans get much of our information from the media- in this case one of the very same people who wrote this condescending and insulting article- so who is truly to blame for fans getting "too high" or "too low" on a perspective candidate? Newspapers and television help form fan opinions on everything related to a particular sports team. The arrogance of this column is a turn off- and nullifies the valid points he conveys.

    Thanks for the newsflash, Barry, that fans sometimes place too much stock in certain people over others without knowing all the facts. Real riveting journalism.


  2. #17
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    I could not have said that any better.

    Love Sarah, Tina Fey, or whoever I am.
    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    Yes, and MY POINT is that we fans get much of our information from the media- in this case one of the very same people who wrote this condescending and insulting article- so who is truly to blame for fans getting "too high" or "too low" on a perspective candidate? Newspapers and television help form fan opinions on everything related to a particular sports team. The arrogance of this column is a turn off- and nullifies the valid points he conveys.

    Thanks for the newsflash, Barry, that fans sometimes place too much stock in certain people over others without knowing all the facts. Real riveting journalism.
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  3. #18
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    " Wearing feelings on your sleeve, makes for very hard feelings" !

    Nice post Barry,

    Maineram -
    and out of the ashes rise ...The Breakfast Club !

  4. #19
    keith m. klink Guest

    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    I go a little into the piece and then it was like blah blah blah ! Sorry , it just didn't hold me to want too read anymore , even though i did . But it was blah blah blah again " and i'm sorry , i do not doubt that there are great points made .

    At one point - we as fans get our info from the media , because not all of us are beat writers for a paper or magazine we rely on writers giving us truth and not what they want the truth to be . We as fans want and need this info because our passions in life made us just that "passionate "about things.

    What i'm passionate about is we now have an ownwer thats passionate , a GM who is passionate , a new HC that is passionate , and a new page in the Rams history . We all want to think this one is the savior ! we have too , we stand up to other teams ridicule and jabs , but we love OUR team. I am excited that we are going to install a down to the dirt DEFENSIVE unit to intimidate teams , just like some of those good ole 70's years . But this time with some offense .

    But again just like the others , i'm just going on ...blah blah blah .

  5. #20
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    Appropriate article at an appropriate time.

    Good stuff Barry.

  6. #21
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    Absolutely fantastic article. Any fan that reads this article, and is offended by it, or bothered by it, really probably needs to take a step back and realize that they are exactly that, a fan, not a general manager, not a football player, not a coach. Nothing wrong with being a fan - I, for one, love it ...

    Understanding the theory of the game, and watching in front of the TV is one thing, but until you we all are in the locker room, on the sidelines, watching film all week, and getting criticized week in and week out, we cannot understand how any of this really works ...

    Any fan who claims to truly understand the business side of the game is likely a liar ...

    I am definitely glad that the fans aren't running the front office. Seemingly some of the fans here would eliminate a coach because at one point in time he was associated with Scott Linehan, who will likely succeed in his new role as OC. Gosh, I am surprised the Saints haven't dumped Drew Brees because he has a birthmark on his face - that's trouble ...

    And that is enough said ...

  7. #22
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti
    Any fan that reads this article, and is offended by it, or bothered by it, really probably needs to take a step back and realize that they are exactly that, a fan, not a general manager, not a football player, not a coach.
    Yes, yes, and yes! None of us have a clue about what it truly takes to win in the NFL. The closest any of us have been or will be is when BigRed spent a couple of days in Rams camp back in the 70's. That's it! We can and should opine, speculate, estimate, guess, complain, and b!t(c)h about every aspect of this team. But at the same time, we all should realize ultimately we don't know our heads from holes when it comes to the ins-and-outs of this sport AT THIS LEVEL.

    When fans start believing things like...
    Just because I don't "play" pro-ball, or involved in the daily front office decisions, doesn't mean I don't know anything about the ins-n-outs of the sport.
    ....there is a level of delusion that needs to be overcome.
    "I'm not going to hide my opinions. They're coming to you between 7000-4000 Angstroms for all the world to see. Oh yes, you will be enlightened."

  8. #23
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    Yes, and MY POINT is that we fans get much of our information from the media- in this case one of the very same people who wrote this condescending and insulting article- so who is truly to blame for fans getting "too high" or "too low" on a perspective candidate? Newspapers and television help form fan opinions on everything related to a particular sports team. The arrogance of this column is a turn off- and nullifies the valid points he conveys.

    Thanks for the newsflash, Barry, that fans sometimes place too much stock in certain people over others without knowing all the facts. Real riveting journalism.
    So you're saying it's the media's fault that some fans act as if they're all-knowing and always right, because the media helps form fan opinions with their detailed coverage?

    Wow, interesting theory. Maybe you can let me know when you feel these fans actually get to take responsibility and ownership for their own opinions rather than pass the buck to others for their ridiculous reactions?

    Fans have every right to express their opinion, but doing so in a manner that suggests you clearly know more about head coaching candidates than the people actually conducting the interviews with a career's worth of experience in the profession is absurd. That's not the fault of the media for creating an informed fan-base; it's the fault of the individual for not tempering his/her inflated self-perception.
    Last edited by Nick; -01-18-2009 at 04:11 PM.

  9. #24
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    Frankly Barry, is it any wonder the press gets an "elitist" label. Oooooohhhhh....we have access....we know things that people tells us both on and off the record...so that makes us so much smarter than what you consider to be us dumb ass fans.

    So what a GM interviews someone and has his private investigators looked into a guy's on and off field conduct, or is "in the room" during the interview? They have no friggin idea what's going to happen once that coach gets on the field with the players. Bill Parcells is a good example. You just don't know where he will be successful or not successful.

    I love ya Barry, but journalists or front office people are not any more "right" about their opinions and moves than your average joe when trying to predict what moves will work out in the future. I seem to remember a head coach of the Cleveland Browns that stunk it up, but later made several Super Bowl appearances with another team as their head coach. Who predicted that?

    There are plenty of examples through out the league where people are scratching their "expert" heads wondering why coach so and so isn't working out on this team or that.
    Last edited by bigredman; -01-18-2009 at 07:26 PM.
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  10. #25
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    Wink Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    ....it's the fault of the individual for not tempering his/her inflated self-perception.
    What you may perceive as self-inflated perception, may actually be an opinion given with conviction of one's personal belief. Is that so wrong? Shouldn't someone express an opinion they believe in and stand by it?

    I agree, you can't blame the media for an opinion you express, but how do you express an opinion of disagreeing with the "the people actually conducting the interviews with a career's worth of experience in the profession" without offending your sensibilities that we fans are not worthy? I mean really. Couldn't I say the same about your draft predictions? No. Of course not. While you are not there at the combine, nor have you personally interviewed any of the players or extensively watched game film on them, your opinion has value as a learned football fan who is knowledgeable about the game. You aren't merely parroting what other experts or the front office is saying, are you?
    Last edited by bigredman; -01-18-2009 at 05:22 PM.
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  11. #26
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    What you may perceive as self-inflated perception, may actually be an opinion given with conviction of one's personal belief.
    Sorry BRM, not buying it. One can stand firm with conviction in their belief without the extremism and all-knowing attitude that accompanies some of the responses we've had in recent days.

    It's one thing to say, "I simply do not want Jason Garrett as this team's next head coach. I just don't have faith in him being an effective leader, and I'd really like to see the Rams go in another direction."

    It's a totally different thing to say, "Jason Garrett will never be a capable head coach in this league, he's clearly the wrong choice, and this franchise is doomed if they hire him."

    See the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    Couldn't I say the same about your draft predictions?
    I would hope not, because I don't believe I've portrayed my draft opinions as being superior to NFL general managers or evaluators. I watch as much college football as I can, read as much outside information as I can, and observe as much of the post-season events as I can. I view and consider all of that information when forming my own opinion.

    That being said, even though I feel as if I follow the draft process rather closely, I'm aware that my level of knowledge and experience doing this is vastly inferior to those that actually do it for a living. Some of the opinions and reactions I believe Barry's article and subsequent replies are in response to do not seem to many to be tempered by such an awareness.

  12. #27
    Azul e Oro is online now Registered User
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    I really don't agree that fans of The Rams are any more irrational now than they've ever been. It's just that now the extreme loons aren't irritating one or two people in a sportsbar somewhere but given exposure, via the internet, to a huge audience.

    Personally, I like the new situation a lot better. Just scroll down the page or click a button to move away from the ranting.

    Whenever I've failed to do so myself, I've regretted it, but I just have to laugh at myself for being foolish enough to take them and myself so seriously and move on. Still, beats the heck out of getting into actual brawls or having to give up my favorite spot at the bar.


    Calling for fans to defer to the superior knowledge of journalists or pro football people in such a generalized fashion seems just as wilfully ignorant to me as "I hate coach X" or "player Y sucks" because the evidence clearly shows that even the best of them are wrong as often as not.

    Now, if fans are being rude to other members of a community like ClanRam , displaying racism , or slinging totally mindless mud at players, coaches, whomever, that is a different story.But I think those situations are best dealt with specifically or simply ignored, not in the general observations in BW's original post.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -01-19-2009 at 03:06 AM.

  13. #28
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Sorry BRM, not buying it.
    Perhaps I can interest you in this sexy little number over here?

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  14. #29
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    Perhaps I can interest you in this sexy little number over here?

    Well, you can't really beat that price....

  15. #30
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    Re: Rams FAns Need To Get a Grip

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post

    I would hope not, because I don't believe I've portrayed my draft opinions as being superior to NFL general managers or evaluators.
    Which NFL GM's and evaluators are we talking about here?

    That's the thing. They don't all agree with each other. They have different opinions within that community too.

    Your opinions may not be superior to theirs, but they are likely shared by some of them.

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