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  1. #16
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    Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike
    Case in point, this years NBA playoffs.
    Huge difference because they play in a series while football teams play just one game. Hence, for football, the possibility of the lesser of two teams winning is even greater because all it takes is one game.

    It's easy to say the Pistons are the better team because they proved it in five games. Meanwhile, are the Pats better than the Colts based on last year's close and controversial AFC championship game? Or were the Pats better than the Rams in SB36 merely because they won despite there also being other factors possibly at work?

    I dunno, seems to me the best team doesn't always win. When you're held to one game to prove yourself and you take into consideration everything that can happen in a game, it's hard to say the winner was always better.

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  2. #17
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    Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    How do you guys feel about a situation where football teams play each other three times in one year. One team wins both during the regular season, but the other team wins in the playoffs. Does that make the second team the better team even though they only won one out of three?

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  3. #18
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    Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    Ask the Buffalo Bills, if you don't finish the season still standing, your not the best. Winning when it matters most is the biggest part of the equation for me. It's the final test of a teams resolve and perserverence. If you come up short for whatever reason, you didn't pass the test, and you don't deserve to be considered the best team. Just my opinion.

  4. #19
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    Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    Well Mike, as expressed in the current ongoing thread above on the greatest ram player of all time, Holy Wide Right Batman! I see your point about the bills. I wonder what scott norwood is up to these days and if he can sleep at night.

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  5. #20
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    Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike
    Ask the Buffalo Bills, if you don't finish the season still standing, your not the best. Winning when it matters most is the biggest part of the equation for me. It's the final test of a teams resolve and perserverence. If you come up short for whatever reason, you didn't pass the test, and you don't deserve to be considered the best team. Just my opinion.
    Well, you're welcome to your opinion. As I said, when you're held to one game to prove yourself and you take into consideration everything that can happen in a game, it's hard to say the winner was always better in my opinion. One person missing one thing could turn the game. Does that mean said player's team is worse? I don't think so.
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  6. #21
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    Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    While I didn't have the pleasure of seeing the 70's teams, I feel so blessed having seen the 99 and 2001 squads. As much as I loved the 1999 team, I have to say that the 2001 squad was so unbelievably dominant, I'd have to give them the edge. Call me crazy, but that years SuperBowl Sunday was one of the most depressing moments in my life.

  7. #22
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    Smile Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    How do you guys feel about a situation where football teams play each other three times in one year. One team wins both during the regular season, but the other team wins in the playoffs. Does that make the second team the better team even though they only won one out of three?
    Extenuating circustances could factor into the two losses during the regular season. Injuries and one home game for the winner of the two games. Also, it is very possible that the losing team simply had not yet developed that all important chemistry during the first two games.

    Anything can happen in a game, but that is true for both teams. It is just as hard for me to say that the losing team was better, just because they made a mistake or more mistakes than the winning team. There is something to be said for the better team making fewer mistakes and forcing the lesser team into making mistakes.

  8. #23
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    Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter
    Extenuating circustances could factor into the two losses during the regular season.
    It's interesting how you seem to cite extenuating circumstances in this instance, but fail to use those same circumstances during another game when trying to determine who's better. Apparently if a team wins in the playoffs, it's because they're better, and not because of some extenuating circumstances that could have caused the better team to lose?
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  9. #24
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    Smile Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    It's interesting how you seem to cite extenuating circumstances in this instance, but fail to use those same circumstances during another game when trying to determine who's better.
    LOL...What is interesting is why you failed to quote the two prominent extenuating circumstances that I listed.

    Injuries and Home Field Advantage.

    Both are huge factors in determining which team is better and I think they are more or less a gimme. The game in question was played on a neutral field and I believe both teams were at relatively full strength. To me, anything else is just an excuse for why a team lost. In my opinion, there will always be excuses from poor sports and sore losers when they feel they were cheated or robbed by a team that they perceived to be inferior. Believe it or not, there really is a reason why they do bother to actually play the game.

  10. #25
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    Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    I must ask, what is "the game in question?" I've been talking about an overall mindset: the best team doesn't always win. For the time being, I'll assume we're talking Pats/Rams SB 36. In said game, would you not consider the officiating a legitimate circumstance that might have kept the best team from winning? Because clealry the Patriots were allowed to get away with tactics contrary to the rules of the NFL. Furthermore, was Kurt Warner not injured going into that game? I believe he had sustained bruised ribs earlier in the playoffs, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I'll try and get a source on that info. Regardless, are you saying Wraith and I are "poor sports and sore losers" because we feel the Rams should have won that game?

    And yes, you're right. Believe it or not, there really is a reason why they do bother to actually play the game. And that reason is because sometimes a lesser team will knock off a better team. If football was always just "the best team wins," there wouldn't be a need to play any games. It would seem to me you're contradicting your point, because in my opinion, the reason they play the game is because the best team doesn't always win, and there's always the chance for an upset -- especially with the parody in today's league. Look at Minnesota. They probably thought they were playoff bound last season until the Cardinals beat them in Week 17. Were last year's Cardinals a better team than last year's Vikings? No. The better team didn't win, and indeed, that's why they play the game.
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  11. #26
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    Cool Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    Well I believe the issue started with my stating that the Rams 99 team was a better team than the Rams 01 team. Then you said the best team doesn't always win. So, I guess we were talking about the SB. Then you wanted to twist it into regular season games to try and prove your point to me. All I can say is that I have been referring to the post season and the SB in particular. I can't speak for your thoughts.

    To the best of my knowledge I believe you are correct that KW was banged up. Regardless, he started and played the whole game. I am sure if we were to dig deep enough we could find players with nagging bumps and bruises on both squads at that point in the season. Playing with pain is just another part of the game that needs to be overcome on both sides. If one or more key players is missing from either squad then that is a different story.

    I am not contradicting myself. If we just went by who was favored or perceived to be better then there would be no reason to play the game. The argument I am making lies within the perception of who is better. I agreed with Mike Martz, when he stated before the game that the pats were the best team the Rams had faced during the regular season and regardless of what the experts or oddsmakers said the pats were at a par with the Rams going in. So, in my opinion, the game itself was indeed the proof of which team was better.

  12. #27
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    Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    Here's my take on it. Souldn't the concept of what team is "better" be defined by a time period. Take SB36 for example. For the 2001 season were the Pats better than the Rams? Not a chance. For the playoffs leading to SB36, were the Pats better than the Rams? Not a chance. But on that Sunday of SB36, were the Pats better than the Rams? Yes, they were.

    The Vikings were mentioned earlier. If you look at weeks 1-7, the Vikes were the best team in the league at 6-0, and the Cards were 1-5. However for weeks 8-17, both the Vikes and Cards were 3-7. So when the Cards beat the Vikes, did the better team win? Look at the season, you would have to say no. Look at the last 10 weeks, it's a toss-up. But look at that Sunday, you gotta say yes.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  13. #28
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    Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    I feel as though the 1999 is the best. Although they lost three games that year, they should have gone undefeated. Lost to the Titans by three points when Wilkins misses a field goal to send the game into overtime. Against Detroit, the Lions complete a 4th and 28 and against the Eagles, the starters sat. 2001 team was a very good team also. The 7 straight division title teams were also fun to watch until the playoffs.

  14. #29
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    Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    Well, you're welcome to your opinion. As I said, when you're held to one game to prove yourself and you take into consideration everything that can happen in a game, it's hard to say the winner was always better in my opinion. One person missing one thing could turn the game. Does that mean said player's team is worse? I don't think so.
    Come on Nick, if a team can lose a championship game because of "one person missing one thing", do they deserve to be considered the best team? I don't think so. Again, doing what needs to be done when a title is on the line is what makes a champion.

  15. #30
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Which Rams team is the greatest of all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter
    To the best of my knowledge I believe you are correct that KW was banged up. Regardless, he started and played the whole game. I am sure if we were to dig deep enough we could find players with nagging bumps and bruises on both squads at that point in the season. Playing with pain is just another part of the game that needs to be overcome on both sides. If one or more key players is missing from either squad then that is a different story.
    According to KFFL.com, Kurt Warner suffered pain in his thumb on December 23rd of 2001. Prior to the first playoff game, Warner suffered from bruised vocal chords, the stomach flu, and back spasms. He injured his ribs in the game against the Packers, and was forced to take painkilling injections to play the following week. He missed practice time throughout the entire playoffs. Warner cited after the Super Bowl that his thumb -- hurt previously a month or so before -- had been bothering him again. We're not just talking about a player. We're talking about a guy that handled the ball on every offensive down. A guy who

    So first, injury is, as you put it, a "prominent extenuating circumstances" that could factor into losses... at least until I bring up an example of it, and then the story changes and those injuries shouldn't be considered because players should "play through them." That's interesting.

    Whatever. You have your opinion, and I have mine. I'm willing to leave it at that.



    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike
    Come on Nick, if a team can lose a championship game because of "one person missing one thing", do they deserve to be considered the best team? I don't think so. Again, doing what needs to be done when a title is on the line is what makes a champion.
    In my opinion, some teams are so close that one mistake could completely change the momentum of the game. Look at the Proehl fumble in the SB. The Rams seemed to be driving and getting some momentum only to have it taken away. And if I remember correctly, the fumble was caused by Antwan Harris's knee hitting the ball and popping it loose while Harris was going for a tackle. A freak moment that completely changed the game. Does that make the Rams inferior to the Pats? I don't think so. People are human, and these kind of things happen.

    You could even make the case that the Rams lost a championship because the Pats were allowed to get away with illegal tactics, as many have since that loss. Does that mean the Rams were worse? Clearly the Patriots were playing outside the rules of the NFL. Even their own player admitted it. Consider from a Howard Balzer article for Sports Weekly:

    There was one time in the game when Patriots defensive end Willie McGinest was so blatant in his mugging of Faulk that the officials couldn't ignore it. Later, McGinest would say he was shocked by the penalty, "because we had been doing that all game."

    Their actions in the Colts game has prompted the entire league to look specifically at contact after the five yard line. So were the Pats a better team than the Colts, even though the league admitted that penalties in key moments were missed and the Pats were allowed to get away with extra contact?

    Like I said to Ferter, you have your opinion and I have mine. I think we're just going to have to accept that.
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