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  1. #1
    Bruce=GOAT's Avatar
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    Rams vs Browns thoughts

    I just watched the preseason game from Saturday Night (again) and for what its worth, here are a few of my observations:


    First of all, Rams were very vanilla and conservative on offense as is the case in lots of preseason games....Bradford looked poised and should have had a TD pass in the 2nd quarter to the RB had a pass interference been called...it was obvious that the PI should have been called but wasn't

    *Marty Gilyard showed promise on returns
    *Fred Robbins showed great penetration when he was in the game
    *Karney did a wonderful job at FB in all facets of the game
    *Bajema looked nice as a checkdown receiver from the TE position
    *Larry Grant looked great in every play he was involved in

    One thing that a lot of fans may not realize is the Browns left their starters in until deep into the third quarter...Some of the game can be attributed to the weather, but the Browns showed the Rams their #1's for the majority of the game and we won....the first couple Browns drives were marred by sloppy play and snap exchanges between Mack and Delhomme

    Let me know what you think please guys


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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce=GOAT View Post

    One thing that a lot of fans may not realize is the Browns left their starters in until deep into the third quarter
    I noticed that, Delhomme was pulled and Wallace came in but they left their starting line and wide receivers on the field. I think the most senior rams player in the 3rd quarter was Adeyanju.

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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Regardless, the Browns are not a very good team..

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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Regardless, the Browns are not a very good team..

    But the thing is, the Rams are supposed to be worse

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce=GOAT View Post
    First of all, Rams were very vanilla and conservative on offense as is the case in lots of preseason games....Bradford looked poised and should have had a TD pass in the 2nd quarter to the RB had a pass interference been called...it was obvious that the PI should have been called but wasn't
    I'm not sure what play you're talking about, as the Rams never got beyond their own 30 yard line in the second quarter. Are you referring to the incomplete pass to Onobun in the endzone near the end of the first quarter? If so, I rewatched the play a couple of times and thought it was pretty good coverage and a fine no-call.

    As for Bradford, I didn't think he looked that good. Because of the weather, I'm not too concerned over his ability to handle the snap under center; however this was an issue from the Vikings game as well so he does need to work on it. I thought he was locked onto receivers quite a bit this game, and it almost resulted in two if not three interceptions as well as two stalled drives. He was poised in that I thought he did well not getting flustered from pressure, but overall I didn't think this was a good outing for him. Hopefully he learns from it and improves for the next game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce=GOAT View Post
    *Marty Gilyard showed promise on returns
    *Fred Robbins showed great penetration when he was in the game
    *Karney did a wonderful job at FB in all facets of the game
    *Bajema looked nice as a checkdown receiver from the TE position
    *Larry Grant looked great in every play he was involved in
    -Agreed on Gilyard on special teams, but he had some drops as a slot receiver.

    -The only time I noticed Robbins was on his sack. I thought he was pretty quiet outside of that. I thought he got pushed around in the running game a bit, especially in the 2nd Q as the Browns started to find their groove.

    -The only time I noticed Karney specifically was his dropped ball on the first series.

    -Agreed on Bajema. The Rams seemed intent on using a lot of two tight end sets this game. Not sure if that's going to be a general gameplan feature or if it was in part due to the game conditions. We'll see this week.

    -Grant looked solid, but I recall he missed a tackle on Hillis and had trouble bringing a RB down on a screen pass, too. So I'd disagree about him looking great on every play, but so far I think he has been a plus for this team.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce=GOAT View Post
    One thing that a lot of fans may not realize is the Browns left their starters in until deep into the third quarter...Some of the game can be attributed to the weather, but the Browns showed the Rams their #1's for the majority of the game and we won....the first couple Browns drives were marred by sloppy play and snap exchanges between Mack and Delhomme
    Well, yes and no. Their starting QB (Delhomme), RB (Harrison), and TE (Watson) were all out on offense on their first drive in the third quarter. By the second drive, the starting OL had been taken out, as had the first team receivers (one of whom didn't even play due to injury). I'm fairly certain by the Rams' second drive of the third quarter, the Browns were on their second team defense as well. So I don't think they played their starters deep into the third. They did basically what the Rams did - played some of their offensive starters (mainly their OL) one series of the third quarter, then switched over. Their defensive starters stayed out to start the third quarter against Bradford and the Rams' starting OL, but were benched after the Rams' initial second half drive.
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  6. #6
    Bruce=GOAT's Avatar
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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Nick i appreciate your analysis as always! And yea the should have been TD pass that i mentioned was at the end of the first quarter to Onubun. I thought it was at the very least a borderline PI penalty as the defensive back was mugging him lol.
    Karney seemed to be engaging blockers well and was very effective as a check-down receiver imo
    Gilyard showed some nice moves in the brief action i saw him in. I think we are set at returner between him and Amendola

  7. #7
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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I'm not sure what play you're talking about, as the Rams never got beyond their own 30 yard line in the second quarter. Are you referring to the incomplete pass to Onobun in the endzone near the end of the first quarter? If so, I rewatched the play a couple of times and thought it was pretty good coverage and a fine no-call.
    I've watched that play numerous times, and it looked like blatant pass interference to me. The defender Ward never turned around on the play while bumping Onobun and face guarding for several yards. It's the kind of coverage that Tye Hill was always flagged for. Even the homer Cleveland announcer made a comment about pass interference not being called.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    As for Bradford, I didn't think he looked that good. Because of the weather, I'm not too concerned over his ability to handle the snap under center; however this was an issue from the Vikings game as well so he does need to work on it. I thought he was locked onto receivers quite a bit this game, and it almost resulted in two if not three interceptions as well as two stalled drives.
    I agree that while remaining poised (which is big IMO), Bradford did not look sharp on many of his passes. But as far as locking onto receivers, while I think he does do it at times, I'm going to cut him some slack because many of his passes were bang bang plays where he really did not have time to look off defenders. I think if you scrutinized any NFL QB, you're going to see the same thing on quick hitters.

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I've watched that play numerous times, and it looked like blatant pass interference to me. The defender Ward never turned around on the play while bumping Onobun and face guarding for several yards. It's the kind of coverage that Tye Hill was always flagged for. Even the homer Cleveland announcer made a comment about pass interference not being called.
    I don't remember the Browns announcer saying it should have been flagged, but just pointing out that it wasn't and Spags wanted one. I watched it a couple times as well, and we'll have to disagree. There was brief mutual hand contact between both Onobun and Ward while the ball was in the air, and while Ward didn't turn to watch the ball, I also don't think he physically interfered with Onobun either. Having just watched it again for this response, I did not see much contact between the two that wasn't facilitated by it being an underthrown pass by Bradford, which they both have a right to.


    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I agree that while remaining poised (which is big IMO), Bradford did not look sharp on many of his passes. But as far as locking onto receivers, while I think he does do it at times, I'm going to cut him some slack because many of his passes were bang bang plays where he really did not have time to look off defenders. I think if you scrutinized any NFL QB, you're going to see the same thing on quick hitters.
    Perhaps, and I'm sure this is something he'll improve in time. But I'll give you an example of what I'm referring to.

    I remember a drive where, on third down, his first read was a quick slant to Jordan Kent, and Kent was completely covered and blocked off. Rather than moving off of Kent to another option, Sam stayed with Kent, stared him down, and waited for him to open up enough to throw it to him. The pass was completed, but it wasn't for a first down and the drive stalled.

    Meanwhile, had Bradford looked off of Kent the second the first read showed he was covered, he likely would have gone to Amendola, who was in much better position for a first down over the middle.

    Again, this is something he'll hopefully get better at just as he continue to get comfortable with the speed of the game and the scheme he's in. But it's an area for improvement, IMO.
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    MauiRam's Avatar
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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I've watched that play numerous times, and it looked like blatant pass interference to me. The defender Ward never turned around on the play while bumping Onobun and face guarding for several yards. It's the kind of coverage that Tye Hill was always flagged for. Even the homer Cleveland announcer made a comment about pass interference not being called.
    Precisely! If Fendi had come back toward the ball a little more it would have been even more flagrant, but it was clearly PI as it stood. The defender never turned his head to look for the ball, and was instead pawing around in Onobun's face. Perhaps a weak argument could be made that the pass was uncatchable, as it was slightly underthrown, but if one of our dbs were to do the same thing to Randy Moss on the end of a Brady pass, does anyone think our guy wouldn't get flagged? It's preseason, and the games don't count - plus we won anyway, but it still was a bad call IMO ..

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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by MauiRam View Post
    Precisely! If Fendi had come back toward the ball a little more it would have been even more flagrant, but it was clearly PI as it stood. The defender never turned his head to look for the ball, and was instead pawing around in Onobun's face. Perhaps a weak argument could be made that the pass was uncatchable, as it was slightly underthrown, but if one of our dbs were to do the same thing to Randy Moss on the end of a Brady pass, does anyone think our guy wouldn't get flagged? It's preseason, and the games don't count - plus we won anyway, but it still was a bad call IMO ..
    Didn't see this at all, and I just watched this again for the earlier response. Both players made hand contact while the ball was in the air, and then as it was coming down, both got their hands up - Fendi to try and make a catch, and Ward to try and prevent it. I think any contact at that point was incidental due to the ball being underthrown. I did not see Ward shoving Onobun or anything like that. The fact that penalties are not consistently called in the NFL is certainly a problem, but from what I saw of this play through the multiple angles shown, I think a no-call was the right call. It appears I'm in the minority on this one.
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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I don't remember the Browns announcer saying it should have been flagged, but just pointing out that it wasn't and Spags wanted one. I watched it a couple times as well, and we'll have to disagree. There was brief mutual hand contact between both Onobun and Ward while the ball was in the air, and while Ward didn't turn to watch the ball, I also don't think he physically interfered with Onobun either. Having just watched it again for this response, I did not see much contact between the two that wasn't facilitated by it being an underthrown pass by Bradford, which they both have a right to.
    I only mentioned the Browns announcer because I found it interesting that he chose to make a comment about no penalty. If it was simply a matter of good coverage, why say anything about a penalty? His exact words after the play were "TJ Ward is on the TE all the way down the field into the goal line and did not get flagged on it". Sounds to me like he felt Ward got away with something.

    As far as the penalty, despite minimal contact, Ward never turned around. IMO, it should have been called a pass interference for that reason alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Again, this is something he'll hopefully get better at just as he continue to get comfortable with the speed of the game and the scheme he's in. But it's an area for improvement, IMO.
    I think we can both agree that Bradford, like any rookie QB, has some things to work on. I'm really looking forward to seeing him in action against New England and seeing if he makes some adjustments to his game.

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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    But the thing is, the Rams are supposed to be worse
    they are. If you take away the two gifts, err i mean fumbles, deep in their own territory, Browns would've handily beat the Rams. the fact that its a W in the preseason column is a credit to the Browns playing badly, NOT the Rams being good.

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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Didn't see this at all, and I just watched this again for the earlier response. Both players made hand contact while the ball was in the air, and then as it was coming down, both got their hands up - Fendi to try and make a catch, and Ward to try and prevent it. I think any contact at that point was incidental due to the ball being underthrown. I did not see Ward shoving Onobun or anything like that. The fact that penalties are not consistently called in the NFL is certainly a problem, but from what I saw of this play through the multiple angles shown, I think a no-call was the right call. It appears I'm in the minority on this one.
    Nick - the db never turned his head to look for the ball period. As far as I know, that should have been enough to have drawn a flag .. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one ..

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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    I Agree with all of the above mentioned. Here's my thoughts on the game as well :-

    1. Our offense may stall again this year because we simply dont have anyone, apart from MAYBE Robinson and Avery. I feel like Robinson still cannot be a true number one go to guy and is not a very physical receiver. Same for Avery. I think they are both soft. Bajema is sure hands it seems, and is a good check down option I agree. Ogbonnaya runs okay at times, but alot of times in that game he just simply looked scared, although I can say that because of our STAGNANT offense. SJAX always looks good for the most part.

    2. Let me tell you something about that Onobun play. I DO NOT think it was that bad in terms of PI. YEah the defender DID touch him a bit, but honestly, you're just simply not always gonna get that call. I felt like Fendi should have went up in the air and caught the ball over the shorter defender at its highest point. Instead, he tried to let the ball come to him, but normally when you do that you hope the defender doesnt touch the ball, which he did. Onobun needs to make that catch. Laurent Robinson should also have made that catch in the end zone.

    3. Bradford needs to work on the snap exchange from center. I wont sit here and complain about his staring down receivers, because like I said, we have virtually NO receiving threat, and when its like that, its really TOUGH to move the ball and then stuff like this ends up happening.

    4. Sometimes I feel like our O- line is getting pushed around. I dont know why.

    5. I like our special teams coverage all the time. It really seems like a solidified unit.

    6. In relation to #5, I like guys like Marquis Johnson, with sure tackles and that upending of Hillis on that running play to the right. Domonique Curry laying the wood on Joe Haden on the return and also another guy from the Browns when he got up shaking. I also like the addition of Fred Robbins, and I feel good to hear that Gary Gibson got promoted to first team defense. I LOVE Daniel Fells and feel like he will be the MAIN TE threat to SCORE.

    7. Too many dropped passes, even though the game was sloppy.

    Overall, I think we will be pretty good on defense, unless we are horrible on offense and have to keep going on the field. We may give up a couple of big plays here and there, but what team doesn't anyway? Chris Long has to step it up because his pass rushing skills have not impressed me since day one. He seems more of a overall good DE because he can adequately rush and also play the run great, something like a Grant Wistrom in his day . My biggest red flag is this OFFENSE. Why in the hell dont we at least ATTEMPT a pass over 10 yards more often? Its almost like we are scared to make a mistake in the PRESEASON....

  15. #15
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Rams vs Browns thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    As far as the penalty, despite minimal contact, Ward never turned around. IMO, it should have been called a pass interference for that reason alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by MauiRam View Post
    Nick - the db never turned his head to look for the ball period. As far as I know, that should have been enough to have drawn a flag .. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one ..
    Ward is under no obligation to turn and look for the ball. My understanding is that face guarding is not currently a penalty in the NFL, as long as the defender does not also make contact. And IMO, any contact at that point was incidental due to the ball being underthrown.

    I think the bigger issue rather than whether or not there was pass interference is how the 6'6" Onobun didn't go up and get that ball over the 5'10" Ward. I agree with rNemesis, that's a ball Onobun needs to go up and get when matched up with a smaller defender. Instead, he didn't, and Ward guarded him close (and well, IMO).
    Last edited by Nick; -08-25-2010 at 03:02 PM.
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