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Thread: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

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    rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    I am sure that there are many answers to this question, however, sometimes the luck of the draw is really critical. Let me put it this way, who would you rather have, jason smith and chris long of kong suh and calvin johnson?

    For all the criticism of the rams draft selections, you can only select from what is available when you pick. Both the rams and lions used the #1 overall to draft franchise qb's. But the rams have fared very poorly with their two recent #2 picks. Smith is looking like a bust, although i am not giving up, i will point out that he has added almost nothing to this point in his career and certainly for the money we are paying him and the fact that he is at right tackle, he is a major major disappointment. He certainly doesnt remind anyone of jake long and seems to look at lot more like robert gallery.

    Chris Long we all like. He is an above average player, plays very hard, is clean cut, causes no trouble and may still improve. But i personally dont see him as enough of an impact player for a #2 overall pick. This is not really a knock on long, i think he has done better than glen dorsey and i dont recall anyone screaming at the time to draft matt ryan. However, for a #2 overall pick, he has certainly not been great value. Ok, sure, but not great.

    On the lions side, Kong is one of the best #2 overall picks ever and Calvin Johnson is a major impact player that has assisted Staffords development in a major way.

    Sometimes its luck. The rams would have taken johnson and Suh if they had the shot at them. Both guys are playing major roles in the lions season. The rams took what was available. Smith is killing us and LOng, while productive, is not exactly causing havoc out there on a weekly basis.

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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    I agree with everything you said. Smith is playing like a bust and its disgusting. He doesn't deserve to be making 200K right now, forget about 9 million.

    Long, I love. He is so underrated. I dont think he is living up to his draft spot, but thats irrelevant to me. He is one of the best players from that draft and is a key player on our team.

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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    The drafting is part of it but its an overall lack of evaluating and coaching up talent. Many teams hiit and miss in the draft and fa. But good teams draft well coach up talent and dont bring in many big name free agents. I dont follow many teams but when you draft dre bly and he's no more than a nickel corner then goes to the liones and makes the pro bowl the same season there is a problem.... When ryan pickett is a bust here and (i believe) went to a pro bowl for the packers something is wrong..... Wasnt it jimmy kennedy that was supppose to be a beast coming outta college that never made a hicup here went to the panthers and has been productive? And how about the lions lb bobby carpenter who was here last season (who we traded dallas for) and never made it past training camp but goes to the lions and sealed a victory for them last week with a big int, and made big plays vs the bears last night! Its a culture here and i just dont know what. Itll take to chnge it
    Last edited by Fastcat; -10-11-2011 at 11:47 PM.

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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    I think the Lions are 5-0 mainly because their offense is clicking in with continuity in the same system. We went from Linehan's idk offense to Shurmur's ultra-conservative WCO and finally McD's spread offense. Just give this offense time to mold and we'll start putting points on the board.
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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    Actually we've only had two different offenses in the time it took the Lions to turn it around. Whiner Harbaugh is going to surpass Spags' win total in his first season, why exactly should this guy just be given more time again?
    Last edited by Fettmaster; -10-12-2011 at 12:01 AM.
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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    Quote Originally Posted by Fettmaster View Post
    Actually we've only had two different offenses in the time it took the Lions to turn it around. Whiner Harbaugh is going to surpass Spags' win total in his first season, why exactly should this guy just be given more time again?
    Dont even with that. You know what team Harbaugh took over right? The only reason the 9ers sucked last year was because of Singletary. They are and were always clearly the most talented team in the division.

    Spags came here with what? Marc Bulger? Yeah...nuff said.

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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    The "give it time concept" does not in my view apply to the pathetic state of our offfensive line or the lack of talent and drops at the wide receiver position. I dont think the rams are suffering from timing issues at all on offense, its just horrible offensive line play and critical drops that are killing us.

    As for blaming it all on singletary, i dont buy that at all. Alex Smith was an absolute stiff for many years, a lot of which had nothing to do with singletary. Harbaugh has improved the situation, as has quality offensive line play and solid play at the receiver spot.

    Spags has had his chances. He will continue to have chances for at least the next few weeks. However, you are what your record says you are and our record under spags of late is terrible. I am discounting the inherited mess, but we have lost what 8 in a row now with green bay dallas and the saints coming up? At some point, we need to win a few games in a row and as i have said in prior posts, i really think he is going to have to win 7 games or so to keep his job. If we dont win just about all the games against the teams in our division i dont see how he comes back and i dont see how we wind up with a decent year if we dont dominate in the division because the rest of the sked is very tough.

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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    give us Megatron and lets how great bradford would do.

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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Dont even with that. You know what team Harbaugh took over right? The only reason the 9ers sucked last year was because of Singletary. They are and were always clearly the most talented team in the division.

    Spags came here with what? Marc Bulger? Yeah...nuff said.
    Yeah because Alex Smith is so much better than Bulger.

    Come on, using your logic one could say the only reason why we suck is because of Spags. The excuse that he inherited a bad team doesn't work for losses in 2011. If this team lacks talent, its because Billy and Spags haven't found it.

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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcat View Post
    The drafting is part of it but its an overall lack of evaluating and coaching up talent. Many teams hiit and miss in the draft and fa. But good teams draft well coach up talent and dont bring in many big name free agents. I dont follow many teams but when you draft dre bly and he's no more than a nickel corner then goes to the liones and makes the pro bowl the same season there is a problem.... When ryan pickett is a bust here and (i believe) went to a pro bowl for the packers something is wrong..... Wasnt it jimmy kennedy that was supppose to be a beast coming outta college that never made a hicup here went to the panthers and has been productive? And how about the lions lb bobby carpenter who was here last season (who we traded dallas for) and never made it past training camp but goes to the lions and sealed a victory for them last week with a big int, and made big plays vs the bears last night! Its a culture here and i just dont know what. Itll take to chnge it
    I think this accurately sums it up. When guys who aren't very productive go elsewhere and flourish, that's the fault of the coaches and management. We haven't done a good job of evaluating and grooming talent. Coupled with bad drafting, this has helped to put us in the state we're in.

    As for SF, I told anyone who cared to listen before the season started that Harbaugh would bring them success. And you can ABSOLUTELY blame Singletary for many of their struggles. Anyone who watched him saw a clueless guy completely in over his head as far as running a football team is concerned. Yes, Alex Smith is not very good and never will be. But it's amazing what a coach can do when he is a former QB and nurtures the player to get the most out of him. The idea that Singletary didn't have talent is nonsense. Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Patrick Willis??? Come on, now.

    And Detroit has shown that picking in the top 3 five hundred years in a row can finally win you some ball games, so maybe there's hope for the Rams yet...

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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    Quote Originally Posted by Fettmaster View Post
    Yeah because Alex Smith is so much better than Bulger.

    Come on, using your logic one could say the only reason why we suck is because of Spags. The excuse that he inherited a bad team doesn't work for losses in 2011. If this team lacks talent, its because Billy and Spags haven't found it.
    Im not using the fact that he took a bad team over and hes still rebuilding. I just said that the only reason Harbaugh will have many wins is because of the team he took over...he literally hasn't changed a thing from last season and is probably going to get almost triple the wins.

    I agree. This falls on Spags (some of it). The drops, penalties and miscues are on players. But Spags needs to do his part too.

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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    My original point was, and remains, that we would be in a lot better shape if we had calvin johnson and kong suh instead of jason smith and chris long and that is luck, a lot more than skill or blame. I dont think anyone has disagreed with that point.

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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    The key to success is......................................







    Timing.

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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    My original point was, and remains, that we would be in a lot better shape if we had calvin johnson and kong suh instead of jason smith and chris long and that is luck, a lot more than skill or blame. I dont think anyone has disagreed with that point.

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    Very true, you can only draft who is in that draft class that year. Although while Smith has been bad this year at times, he wasn't terrible last year. But look around the other top picks in that draft that we could have drafted. Tyson Jackson, Aaron Curry, Mark Sanchez, Andre Smith, Darius Heywood Bey, Eugene Monroe. None are lighting up this league. To find a top player at his position that we could have drafted you have to go down to #9 and BJ Raji. Or Brian Orakpo at #13. Even given Smith's struggles, the Rams probably drafted the best guy they could out of the guys expected to go in the top 5.

    Now what isn't luck, and is just bad drafting, is what happened in 2006 and 2007.
    2006 the Rams traded down from 11 to 15 and drafted Tye Hill. By doing so, they missed out on drafting Haloti Ngata, who went to the Ravens at 12.
    In 2007, the Rams drafted Adam Carriker and attempted to convert the college defensive end to linebacker. The player that went the pick after Carriker? Darrelle Revis.

    Now i don't know about you, but a DL of Long, Ngata, Robbins and James Hall/Robert Quinn? Pretty good. And a CB pairing of Revis and Bartell? Up there as best in the NFL.

    Of course, with all these top quality draft picks i doubt we could afford all the contracts, but you don't have to consider these things when talking "what if" scenarios!

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    Re: rams vs lions, why are the lions 5-0 while we are a disgrace

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    I am sure that there are many answers to this question, however, sometimes the luck of the draw is really critical. Let me put it this way, who would you rather have, jason smith and chris long of kong suh and calvin johnson?

    For all the criticism of the rams draft selections, you can only select from what is available when you pick. Both the rams and lions used the #1 overall to draft franchise qb's. But the rams have fared very poorly with their two recent #2 picks. Smith is looking like a bust, although i am not giving up, i will point out that he has added almost nothing to this point in his career and certainly for the money we are paying him and the fact that he is at right tackle, he is a major major disappointment. He certainly doesnt remind anyone of jake long and seems to look at lot more like robert gallery.

    Chris Long we all like. He is an above average player, plays very hard, is clean cut, causes no trouble and may still improve. But i personally dont see him as enough of an impact player for a #2 overall pick. This is not really a knock on long, i think he has done better than glen dorsey and i dont recall anyone screaming at the time to draft matt ryan. However, for a #2 overall pick, he has certainly not been great value. Ok, sure, but not great.

    On the lions side, Kong is one of the best #2 overall picks ever and Calvin Johnson is a major impact player that has assisted Staffords development in a major way.

    Sometimes its luck. The rams would have taken johnson and Suh if they had the shot at them. Both guys are playing major roles in the lions season. The rams took what was available. Smith is killing us and LOng, while productive, is not exactly causing havoc out there on a weekly basis.

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    Well, not all luck. First of all, the Rams could've had Suh, they chose Bradford. That's not luck, that's choice. If the draft was about luck, then you might as well choose players by throwing a dart at a list of names. There's always going to be a percentage of players that can't make it at the next level. Why does our percentage always seem to be so high?

    I don't have a problem with choosing Bradford. However, if you're going to use your #1 overall pick on a franchise QB, you have to do 2 things. First, you have to give him a line to protect him (strike one). Second, you have to give him receivers to throw to (strike two). As Fastcat pointed out, too many players have left this team after marginal play with the Rams, to flourish under other coaches. That cannot be ignored, nor should it be minimized.


    The Rams have absolutely ZERO identity. We chose Bradford. Great, then let's focus on getting our offense moving. We have so many holes on this team. It's impossible to fill them all at once. Pick something and fix it. It just seems like there's no plan or roadmap for success in place. Where's the leadership?
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

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