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  1. #16
    ramsfan1975 Guest

    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    i say we give the panthers a 2 for jenkins, and swap our first round with da bears and ad our 4th rounder and possibly one of our dead weight players (terrel,bryd ect.) for briggs If he can sign a decent cap friendly deal. then were really starting to look in good shape on defence, plus with switching picks with the bears we can still get that decent reciever linehan wants and we wont need a lot of money in our draft pool cince we wont have a 2nd and 4th and the 1st rounder would be much later in the draft.. that would give us the cap space to get the deal done..what do you think?


  2. #17
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    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    If you can get Jenkins for a later pick and not your first rounder, you still have that #1 to use on another area such as defensive end. Just because defensive tackle is our biggest need doesn't necessarily mean it's the area we're addressing first.

    I would prefer to send a third and a player to Carolina for Jenkins, but if it's going to cost a second rounder, I'd much rather send them that pick than a first rounder. A first round pick makes absolutely no sense value-wise, and if we were to acquire Jenkins and keep the first rounder, we could look at someone like Anderson or Carriker. Personally I'd much rather have Jenkins arrive at Rams park with Jamaal Anderson than I would Tim Crowder or LaMarr Woodley.


    Quote Originally Posted by ramsfan1975 View Post
    and swap our first round with da bears and ad our 4th rounder and possibly one of our dead weight players (terrel,bryd ect.) for briggs If he can sign a decent cap friendly deal.
    If Briggs was willing to sign a cap friendly deal, he'd have signed it in Chicago. The reason he's holding out is because he sees the money that's to be made out there and he wants a large amount of it.

  3. #18
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    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    Personally I'd much rather have Jenkins arrive at Rams park with Jamaal Anderson
    That would be sweet!

  4. #19
    Krames41 Guest

    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    Rambos:

    1. Sorry but it's pretty naive to think a guy of Wrotens physical build is going to do what your arguing Jenkins is going to do, I don't think he is the right replacement. Wroten is going to be a good situational player, thats about it. When have late round defensive tackles contributed as starters (I don't necessarily mean Wroten, I mean in general)?


    2. I don't know about that because Indy has been the only team in the past ten years to win the super bowl without having a good defense. But hey if you want to go with the 10 percent instead of the 90 percent success rate I guess that is your decision.


    3. Again, he is going to give you three years at best, and that's if everything works out perfectly. Even if a draft pick takes two years, isn't it worth it? Holt, Jackson, Bulger, Pace, Barron, Incognito, and Setterstrom will all still be here. It's not like we are going to lose our entire offense in the two years it takes to build a great defense. I don't know if you noticed but teams that win the super bowl win it with all aspects of the game, not just one.

    4. This is a good point, but I can counter with: what happens when we trade our draft pick they both end up still being on the board and they both end up being dominant pro-bowl defensive players for the next decade while we got two good years out of Jenkins and are using an undersized d tackle and a late round worthless draft pick as our two tackles after he is gone?....I mean...as long as we are being hypothetical.
    Last edited by Krames41; -04-12-2007 at 05:14 PM.

  5. #20
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    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    DE: Leonard Little
    DT: Kris Jenkins
    DT: L'Roi Glover
    DE: Jamaal Anderson
    (with a second team of J.Hall, J.Kennedy, C.Wroten, V.Adeyanju)[/quote]

    If our line looked like that next year I would be ecstatic. That would be a tremendous upgrade over this year and I think we would be a contender for the Super Bowl.

  6. #21
    smizzhfx Guest

    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    I'd just like to point out that Wroten wasn't a late round draft pick, he was taken in the 3rd.

  7. #22
    Krames41 Guest

    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    Quote Originally Posted by smizzhfx View Post
    I'd just like to point out that Wroten wasn't a late round draft pick, he was taken in the 3rd.
    I totally agree, I miscommunicated, I meant a late round draft pick in a broad sense, I was referring to how we would replace Jenkins/Glover if we traded our first round pick, and lost him after two years, not that Wroten was a late rounder. I meant Wroten and a late rounder. My fault.

  8. #23
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    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    Let me clarify, I took the statement “back to where we started” as meaning we have nothing at DT right now. Kennedy stinks and Glover is old. So I was saying Wroten should be up to speed. We won’t be back to having nothing when Jenkins is done. I did not mean Wroten would be as dominating as Jenkins. But we should have at least one decent DT.

    But hey if you want to go with the 10 percent instead of the 90 percent success rate I guess that is your decision.
    No I want a great defense, but I would like to start by adding a solid DT.

    Holt, Jackson, Bulger, Pace will all still be here.
    Pace is already slowing down, Holt is getting up there In age, Holt will be here for a while but not that young anymore. Jackson's contract is coming up. Did I miss it, when did Marc sign his new deal?

  9. #24
    YOYO Guest

    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    Many on this board have stated that given jenkins' injury issues and his age (27), they are hesitant about giving up a #2 for him, let alone a #1. Some have stated that they wouldnt take him if he was available, in his current physical state and at his current age, with our #1 pick.

    If people have that view because they dont want to mortgage the future to try and win now, i understand that thinking. However, i want to make a couple of points.

    First, for those of you who wouldnt trade a #1 for jenkins and yet conceed that we are desparate for help at defensive tackle, why does anyone think that anyone we pick at 13, even if branch and/or okoye are there, is going to contribute in the first year or so in any material way. Second, what makes you so sure that branch or okoye wont be either busts or at least fail to meet your expectations.

    Tell me what the difference is between okoye/branch today and kennedy or lewis at the time we picked them. Kennedy and lewis were both picked at or around #12. Lets go back in time. If you could have had a 27 year old all pro who played all 16 games the year before, would you take him ahead of kennedy or lewis? Of course you would. My point is that there is no guarantee what okoye or branch is going to be in the future and you have to know for sure that they arent going to help you as much as jenkins in the present. Thus, i think we are worse off in the present, and no way to tell what the future holds. If you get three solid seasons out of jenkins, thats pretty good value for a high pick especially given the current state of our offense (ie we are good enough to win on the offensive side of the ball right now)

    There has to be a balance in the cap era between playing for the present and playing for the future. Lets assume for a second that jenkins was a free agent right now. I would have no problem paying huge money guaranteed to outbid others for him and i think many, many people on this board would agree. Paying big money up front has significant long term risks due to the potential cap impact. Whats the difference between trading at least a #2 pick in terms of balancing the future against the present?

    The bottom line is that jenkins is the perfect fit. Debate all you want about sands and the other guys out there that everyone wanted, we have all been screaming "sure, the moves our interesting, but what are we doing about the HUGE hole at defensive tackle?" I have been saying all along that there is really nothing we can do because players arent available that really help. This guy REALLY helps and he helps now. Okoye is 19. To repeat my prior post, in the history of the league, no 19 year old has ever made a significant impact at the defensive tackle spot in his first year. He is a great prospect, i would love to have him on the rams, but not only do i doubt that he will be available at 13, i dont see how anyone thinks that he is going to "solve" our problems at defensive tackle for a while, if ever.

    We were desparate for defensive tackle in 2001. We traded trent green to take damione lewis, who was lovies guy. No one was *****ing about that pick at the time. No one was *****ing when we took kennedy. Neither of those guys helped us. If we had a shot at a probowl guy back then in place of the uncertainty of a #2 pick, we would have grabbed it.

    The turley trade was a great trade by the rams in my view. Hindsight is 20-20. We were desparate for help at right tackle after the st clair debacle. We got a probowl level guy for a #2 pick AND we signed him to a big contract. Jenkins isnt even asking to renegotiate as far as anyone has read. The fact that turley got hurt after the fact was not foreseable, other than the fact that any of these guys can get hurt at any time, which includes the draft picks as well. Is jenkins a little more battle weary than turley was at the time? Yes, but remember, he played all 16 games last year at a pro bowl level and IF the rams think he checks out physically, i think its the same kind of trade. Go back and look at our #2 picks over the last ten years and tell me how many of them have turned out as good as jenkins?

    Bottom line, i am 100% supportive of a #2 for jenkins IF he checks out physically and i am prepared to add to it to get the deal done. I dont believe that its mortgaging our future to make that kind of deal anymore than we have uncertainty for our future anyway based on the unknown nature of any draft pick. Is it a risk? Sure. But risk equal reward in life and with jenkins we have a chance to win it all and without him, we can be a playoff team, but not realistically a champion and who knows what the future holds.

    I will leave you all with this thought. If you dont get out of bed in the morning, you wont get hit by a car. Certainty is a great thing, but there is nothing certain about the guy we pick with #13 anyway, and as a result, i am all for taking some risk to try and win a title.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel
    Hello Rams fans!!!
    This is my first post, I just wan't to say I love this Forum!!
    I have to agree with GC on the subject of trading for Jenkins even if it cost us a 2nd rounder, this guy would improve our defense the moment he steps on the field and no player that we draft at the DT position will do that.
    :r

  10. #25
    Krames41 Guest

    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post

    Pace is already slowing down, Holt is getting up there In age, Holt will be here for a while but not that young anymore. Jackson's contract is coming up. Did I miss it, when did Marc sign his new deal?
    Holt will be here for a lot longer, Bulger didn't sign a new deal but they are working on it, and the Rams would be pretty stupid to not resign him during the season, same with Jackson, if they resign one of them, can't they franchise the other (assuming they don't get a long term deal done)? I think it's pretty safe to say they will all be here. The only thing that would mess it up is not resigning one of Jackson or Bulger during the season.

    Again, my argument isn't Jenkins is not an adequate player, my argument is we have the potential to improve our defense for a lot longer of a time period through the draft. We have the potential to draft a 19 year old who could play in the league for 10-15 plus years. If he ends up being a dominant pro bowl caliber tackle, and we trade for Jenkins, and pass on him It's going to sting, especially if Jenkins is overweight or gets hurt. Jenkins is a solution for next year, and maybe even the following, but Jenkins isn't going to anchor our defense for the next ten years. I understand the draft might not work out, but you can say the same about Jenkins. So back to my point, I think we need to wait until draft day and see what happens. If the two tackles are gone, we trade our number one for Jenkins, if they aren't we draft one of them and maybe even try to screw Carolina by offering them a number two and a tight end or jack nothing. We hold leverage over Kansas City because:

    1. More cap room
    2. We can afford to give a Tight End
    3. We have a higher number one pick.
    4. Kansas City sucks at life.

    I'm not arguing a trade for Jenkins, I'm saying we need to be patient, and smart.

  11. #26
    Krames41 Guest

    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Let me clarify, I took the statement “back to where we started” as meaning we have nothing at DT right now. Kennedy stinks and Glover is old. So I was saying Wroten should be up to speed. We won’t be back to having nothing when Jenkins is done. I did not mean Wroten would be as dominating as Jenkins. But we should have at least one decent DT.
    I don't know if we can count Wroten as a quality tackle yet, right now he is a situational player at best, he might still develop but we need to wait and find out.

  12. #27
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    Whover would spend the 13th pick on a Kris Jenkins would be rightfully laughed out of the league and never again allowed in the NFL Personnel Evaluators Club.

    If the Rams can get Aeneas Wms and Marshall Faulk for 2nd round picks, what makes Kris Jenkins worth the 13th pick in the draft?

    Is that comparing vets to rookies? Yes. As a rule teams don't mortgage their future in that drastic a way for a vet.

    I can't think of anyone ever spending a pick that high on a defensive tackle with that many question makrs.
    Last edited by z.nrd; -04-14-2007 at 02:36 PM. Reason: typo

  13. #28
    blood85 Guest

    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    What makes any of you think that Okoye or Branch couldn't contribute immediately?? Even if they didn't, we wouldn't be any worse off than we are right now. Even if they were busts, is there any guarantee that any draft pick will turn out to help us reach the promised land? If Jenkins can't check himself right now, why would anyone think that he would change by going to our Rams? I still say that the most we should give, if Jenkins is to come to the Rams is a 3rd and at most a 2nd. Heck even if we don't get a DT in the first round, we could use a nice LB or help for the Secondary, such as a SS.

  14. #29
    Rambos's Avatar
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    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    Rams would be pretty stupid to not resign him during the season
    I watch the Rams let ED go so you never know.

    Again, my argument isn't Jenkins is not an adequate player, my argument is we have the potential to improve our defense for a lot longer of a time period through the draft.
    We drafted how many DT and how many have worked out? I agree I would love to get Amobi Okoye, but and here is the big but. How do you know if he will be there we pick.

    we need to wait until draft day
    If both DT are gone we are going to pay big time for Jenkins IMO, maybe too much.

    If we keep our 1st and already have Jenkins maybe we still get Amobi Okoye.

    I don't know if we can count Wroten as a quality tackle yet, right now he is a situational player at best, he might still develop but we need to wait and find out.
    He is a guy that fell to us in the draft because of his issues off the field. On one hand you want to bulid through the draft on the other you don't want to see the up side in a young players. None of us have really seem Wroten play yet, this year we will start to see if he can be a player in the NFL. Only time will tell IMO.
    Last edited by Rambos; -04-14-2007 at 06:16 PM.

  15. #30
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: ranking jenkins, okoye, kennedy and lewis

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    different teams have different agendas at different times. The panthers are cap strapped and they have other guys at the position. They are considering a trade to better balance their team and open money to spend elsewhere.

    None of this would have happened if jenkins showed up for the team workouts in good shape. The fact that he didnt show up clearly upset management.

    Guys i am not suggesting that jenkins is without risk. He has been injured in the past. The point is that no one is without risk and if he had no injury history and was a multi year probowler, there would be no shot in the world that you would have a chance at getting a guy with that kind of talent. All the more reason that letting pickett walk away was moronic after he led the nfc in tackles at his position and led the nfl in tackles for a loss at the defensive tackle spot.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel
    Panthers are not cap-strapped. So it gets back to the original question. Why are they trading him?

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