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  1. #46
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    Easy on mokler guys, please. He does make some valid points and believe me, he's a huge Rams fan. This guy is a historian on Rams QB's. So he dissects the rip out of every game, so what? That's what this forum is for, to discuss whatever view you have and let it be known for all to hear. If you really read his first post, he was excited about the win. All he wants for the Rams to do is get better. That's it. In his own style. Just like we all have our own styles.
    Sometimes, I'm inclined to agree with you, but then I read that sig quote again and I'm reminded of where Mok is really coming from.


  2. #47
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    The team has ostracized him and I am just trying to learn from one of the best there EVER was and to win games pretty so MOK, Trout and the Yo Dude don't wish me off the face of the earth
    Hmmmmmmm....am I missing something? Was I involved in this conversation?

    If you want my input on a topic, feel free to ask. But if you drop my name in a stupid context like the above, all that's going to happen is that you will get your feelings hurt.

    And who is this Trout person?
    Clannie Nominee for ClanRam's Thickest Poster

  3. #48
    coy bacon is offline Registered User
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by fearlessone
    "I'll sign my share but I'm not going to go out looking or anything." -Marc Bulger

    Refresh me I was on a vacation for a few months ... and explain the meaning of the above. No doubt it has positive value coming from the site's existentialist! :redface:

    FLO
    I doubt if Mok is an existentialist, his posts are too defined and positioned (which is a good thing). He is certainly not ambivalent, and he is very analytical. No, Mok is not an existentialist.

  4. #49
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    Sometimes, I'm inclined to agree with you, but then I read that sig quote again and I'm reminded of where Mok is really coming from.
    Pretty much my thoughts on it as well. The title of his post - "Reality Check, Please!" - leaves a bad taste in my mouth, because it suggests that those of us celebrating this win aren't living in reality. If this is Mok's reaction to a big comeback win against divisional opponents, I can happily say I'm glad that no one I go to football games with shares this approach - what a downer it'd be on the ride home!

    Furthermore, why the gross overexaggeration of fan reaction? Does he know how many times the phrase "Super Bowl" or "playoffs" came up after the win? His statement that we shouldn't write the Rams into the SB just yet implies that we're doing just that - last I checked, not one person was. So as Mike pointed out, who's the one who really needs to gain some perspective?
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  5. #50
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Speaking of realism, if you want to annoy your neighbors, speak the truth of them. - Pietro Aretino

  6. #51
    coy bacon is offline Registered User
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    You're right, luck is part of it and that's what I'm calling it. ... Let's all call it like it is, rather than sugar coating everything and acting like the Rams are better than they actually are. ... I just hate seeing all of these posts talking about how good they are now when in actuality they got lucky more than anything.

    They took advantage of the luck and played good when the chance arose, but it took luck to even get to that point. It was luck that Seattle managed the game poorly with bad personnel and coaching decisions and it was luck that Manu kept the game alive. The Rams capitalized on their luck for once but it's not something I feel really comfortable counting on.
    After reading Mok's post partially quoted above, I have to correct myself. Mok is an existentialist. The god of "luck" that he worships is far too capricious for my tastes.

    Mok, I have to agree with Av on this one. You're becoming a parody. I too think you make some valid, but well exaggerated points. I don't recall many people proclaiming a march to the Super Bowl because we pulled out a win in Seattle. I don't recall reading many, if any, posts that proclaim how great this year's Rams are all because of a great 8 minute spurt.

    Everyone has been either down, or simply hopeful that this team could even make the playoffs. And I think everyone knows its going to be tough and there are no gimmies. Why do you need to exaggerate the up feeling we have and twist it into some blubbering overconfidence?

  7. #52
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    C'mon people.....critiquing mok's reasons for his views of the Rams is fine but let's leave out our personal views of the man shall we?

    BTW did spell critiquing right?

    :redface:

  8. #53
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    The win on Sunday was a joy to watch.

    I don't understand how anyone would feel compelled to criticize the Rams after a game like that.

    Sometimes, you should just enjoy the moment.
    I'm not a real doctor... but I play one on the internet.

  9. #54
    coy bacon is offline Registered User
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    C'mon people.....critiquing mok's reasons for his views of the Rams is fine but let's leave out our personal views of the man shall we?

    BTW did spell critiquing right?

    :redface:
    Ok, I'll bite, yes you speled it corectly. :smile:

  10. #55
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Easy on mokler guys, please. He does make some valid points and believe me, he's a huge Rams fan. This guy is a historian on Rams QB's. So he dissects the rip out of every game, so what? That's what this forum is for, to discuss whatever view you have and let it be known for all to hear. If you really read his first post, he was excited about the win. All he wants for the Rams to do is get better. That's it. In his own style. Just like we all have our own styles.
    It goes both ways Tx. Mok gives as good as he gets, which is the way it should be. It's obvious that he knows his stuff and his takes are always provacative and spark good debate. As I've said many times, Moklerman makes this site a better place and deserves respect, whether you agree with him or not.

  11. #56
    sbramfan is offline Registered User
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    I agree that if you can't celebrate a win, why watch the games, but how many of you were thinking in the middle of the third quarter things like:

    A: Our special teams is the worst in the NFL.
    B: Our defense has holes, is small, and will get bullied all year long.
    C: Marc Bulger now has as many interceptions as touchdowns - again.
    D: Mike Martz called a pretty bad game in the first half.
    E: Is is Marshall or our offensive line, or both, that can't get it going.

    I'm just not sure why anyone thinks this has changed as a result of the "backs to the wall" miracle victory? It hasn't, and Mok has a point.

    And I also don't see why it's so great that once again, Bulger got us out of a hole that his 3 interceptions played a big part in. And I'm not knocking him, because I think he's been one of the bright spots on this team so far this year, but I keep in perspective that his best games were against the Cards and the 9'ers, and for the most part, this "explosive" offense is not putting up near the points it should be.

    Given these concerns, my hope is that the team will get better as the year goes on, and it appears we are seeing that. We got some big games ahead, leading up to a rematch with these seahawks. We need to get better.

  12. #57
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    I don't understand how anyone would feel compelled to criticize the Rams after a game like that.
    I wasn't criticizing the Rams, I was criticizing the fan reaction. I think we should be thanking our lucky stars and not bragging.

    The god of "luck" that he worships is far too capricious for my tastes.
    You're right. It was by design that we won that game. Martz's incredible coaching skills forced Holmgren into making stupid decisions. The mere prescence of the defense forced Seahawks wr's into dropping passes. Tipped balls going to one receiver and then miraculously caught, were by design. In fact, I think that td to Manu is on the new Madden video game now that you mention it. What was I thinking?

    Why do you need to exaggerate the up feeling we have and twist it into some blubbering overconfidence?
    When I read quotes like this, I don't feel my position is one of exaggeration:
    I think we will be seeing the crazy circus show of the Warner days again real soon.
    There was more than this one example, but I'm just bitter and making stuff up so why bother posting more examples?

    Speaking of realism, if you want to annoy your neighbors, speak the truth of them. - Pietro Aretino
    Thanks Adarian, I'll have to remember that one.

    Pretty much my thoughts on it as well. The title of his post - "Reality Check, Please!" - leaves a bad taste in my mouth, because it suggests that those of us celebrating this win aren't living in reality.
    I wasn't "suggesting" anything Nick. I have said many times that the win was great, the comeback was phenomenal, there were instances of greatness on the field by the Rams players but we all shouldn't act like we are better than we are. I was jumping up and down and calling people on the phone talking about what a great comeback it was.

    There are just too many instances of people acting like we showed Seattle who's boss. "Beat" them at their homefield. Martz and Bulger and McDonald and Curtis, etc. have all turned the corner now and the rest of the league better watch out, etc. I"M the one defending the idea of living in the now and enjoying the win, people! I'm being critical of those who are projecting.

    So as Mike pointed out, who's the one who really needs to gain some perspective?
    Does anyone actually READ my posts? If I'm going to go on reputation alone, I'm just going to start posting pictures and everyone can just assume what I mean from my screen name.

    Sometimes, I'm inclined to agree with you, but then I read that sig quote again and I'm reminded of where Mok is really coming from.
    The facts? Oh wait, I forgot to interpret what Bulger actually MEANS when he says something like that. The more some people try and illustrate that my signature paints me in a negative light, the longer I will continue to proudly "sign" it to my posts. It illustrates perfectly the mentality that I continually go against. After explaining it a bajillion times people still don't understand why I have that as my signature.

    gee... i usually like analytical assessments of the team performance but this is more of an expository on why the collective whole should bear the burden of being abnegative and tempering our emotions...
    Again, I never said anything about not being emotional about the game. I'm the one that wants everyone to celebrate the game and not the other stuff.

    Maybe just maybe this comeback will be the thing that jump starts our team and will turn them around both offensive and defensively!!!!!!
    That's funny, I already agreed and wrote this exact thing. If everyone was saying things like this I wouldn't have posted what I did in the first place.

    Being positive is tremendously better than the negativity
    I agree, but not at the cost of reality. If you understood my point you wouldn't be criticizing me for being negative. "Objective" isn't spelled n-e-g-a-t-i-v-e.

    If your reaction to a Ram team that goes into a hostile stadium, against a team that is on a roll and gunning for the Rams' division title, gets down by 17 points with a quarter to go, and yet finds a way to win the game, is to start a thread that is critical of the performance,
    Is that what I was saying? One of us is going to have to do some re-reading.

    As for Marc Bulger... I tried to think of another example of a QB that threw 3 interceptions early and then lead a fourth quarter comeback. The first that came to mind was Terry Bradshaw in Super Bowl XIV - when he won the MVP.
    I've seen Bulger do it a couple/few times. I can't take that away from him, he certainly knows how to make a game exciting. He always seems to play well when the team's back is against the wall. The problem I have with his late game heroics is that he's often the reason late game heroics are necessary. Of course, if I criticize Bulger for throwing 3 interceptions in the first 3 quarters I'm just picking on him. My irrational hatred of Bulger knows no bounds and it's only possible for a deviant like me to mention something like that when the Rams won the game.

    Of course, I would also say that in a microchasm a 3 interception game wouldn't be anything to get worked up about but the fact that Bulger has continually done that type of thing that causes me CONCERN, would probably just be forgotten or ignored and I would have to be flamed as a Bulger/Martz hater-Warner lover.

    In the end, you just don't get it. There is such a small gap between the "best" and "worst" team in the league in terms of talent, that what ultimately matters more than anything else is a teams' ability to come together and find a way to win when it faces adversity.
    I think I'm vaguely aware of the term "team chemistry". I don't quite know where this came from or what it pertains to, but I'm pretty sure "fan reaction to a game" isn't part of a team's chemistry.

    Lastly, a heart felt thanks goes out to Tex for support of my right to have an opinion, albeit an unpopular one.

  13. #58
    RAMMAN68's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    The RAMS won a big divisonal game on the road. That is something to be proud of. Dose the team need work? Absolutly! But with all the talent on this team, IMO we should have won that game. You can't tell me that the sqwaks are a dominate team, and have more talent. :tough:

    If we take the first half of the ******* game, and the 4th Qrt + OT of the sqwaks game you have a good team. They just need to put it all together for 4 Qrt each and every week.

    :ramlogo:
    JUST WIN ONE FOR THE FANS


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  14. #59
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Just hang in there mokler....I appreciate your views and all views on ClanRam. I whole heartedly feel that if everyone on this board agreed on everything it would die. Diversity fires discussion which fuels opinions and thoughts. Without diverse opinions we would all only see half the picture.

  15. #60
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Thanks, Tex. But, don't worry about me. If I have to stand alone I don't mind doing it. I have conviction if nothing else. Besides, my dog still likes me.

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