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  1. #61
    coy bacon is offline Registered User
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    You're right. It was by design that we won that game. Martz's incredible coaching skills forced Holmgren into making stupid decisions. The mere prescence of the defense forced Seahawks wr's into dropping passes. Tipped balls going to one receiver and then miraculously caught, were by design. In fact, I think that td to Manu is on the new Madden video game now that you mention it. What was I thinking?
    You probably weren't thinking when you said it was all luck that we won. And you probably weren't thinking when you said it by design that we won. How about just saying that good players and coaches make their own luck? How about giving the players some props for playing hard when the chips were down instead of writing it off to luck? If the Rams were to just have stood around with their hands in their pockets, all the luck in the world would not have changed the score. Instead they continued to try to win, and they did.

    Don't demean the team's efforts by saying it was all luck. It wasn't. And again, you twist and exaggerate the euphoria we felt when the Rams won into some type of pollyanna overconfidence. I see no evidence of that whatsoever. Seeing that last quarter rally does spark some hope in me that Bulger can indeed become as effective as Warner was. At least he's proved he can do it, once. He's got a ways to go, but do you deny that he's improved?

    And just because you sprinkle in a few compliments does not mask your overly negative tone. It's like hoping your Right Guard hides the smell of your farts.


  2. #62
    moklerman's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    You probably weren't thinking when you said it was all luck that we won.
    Now, who's twisting words? I never said it was all luck. I said the Rams were lucky. There's a big difference. I gave you specific examples of things that happened that were completely out of the Rams control. If not luck what do you call it when those things go your way?

    but do you deny that he's improved?
    No, did I say that? I did say that he's exhibiting the same problems that have given me concern in the past. He's improved on his deep throws. Not all of them are good, but more of them are. But I haven't criticized him for that for a long time. 50/50's about as good as it gets when it comes to deep throws by any qb in the league. I only criticized Bulger about it when he was missing on a lot of them.

    However, I'm still concerned about his decision-making and reads in general. Other than the last 6 minutes of Sunday's game he showed that it's still a problem for him. I'm not saying he should be crucified or traded or anything like that, just that I haven't seen as much improvement in this area that I'd like.

    And just because you sprinkle in a few compliments does not mask your overly negative tone.
    I'm pretty sure that I stated early on that I was unhappy with the fan response. I'm not trying to spin this into something else. I don't think I'm being negative about the Rams though. I've stated over and over what a great comeback it was. I've complimented a variety of players on their efforts in the comeback and haven't even really touched on the first 53 minutes of the game.

    I chose to not even address that portion of the game because I knew people would get all bent out of shape. I really wasn't focused on it and I actually wanted to talk about what happened in the game during the comeback. This thread was started as a negative feeling toward all the projecting and corner turning that this game "proved".

    I don't feel that I've been negative toward the Rams much at all.

    It's like hoping your Right Guard hides the smell of your farts.
    Uhhhh....I'll have to take your word on that one. Remind me not to have Thanksgiving dinner at your house.

  3. #63
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    Just hang in there mokler....I appreciate your views and all views on ClanRam. I whole heartedly feel that if everyone on this board agreed on everything it would die. Diversity fires discussion which fuels opinions and thoughts. Without diverse opinions we would all only see half the picture.
    TX, I have to agree. Case in point, the tip before the Manu catch? Mama RF and me disagree on the difference it made in the catch. We disagreed about the tying kick decision. But, one thing all the Clan DOES agree on: We all love Rams football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #64
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    Straight from the head coach

    Here's a reality check:

    ...But as happy as he was about the Seattle game, Martz isn't ready to make any sweeping statements about his team, or this season.

    "We're not there," Martz said. "We won a game. ... We had a great win. But we've got a lot of season left, and there's still a lot of bumps in this road to go.

    "We haven't matured like we need to. And we're not where we need to be, or want to be, or will be. But we're making progress. And (the players) believe in what we're doing, and that's the most important thing."
    I insist, Sunday's comeback win was no fluke. We simply fought back with a last stand when every player and fan was down and out.

    This game was THE MOST DIFFICULT TEST THUS FAR.

    No, it was not "luck" that gave us the victory. Seahwks could have sacked Bulger in OT, or Wilkins could have missed the FG. McDonald might have dropped that game winning pass. Et cetera.

    This game will go on as one the most memorable in Rams history. Enjoy...

  5. #65
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    When I read quotes like this, I don't feel my position is one of exaggeration:
    I don't see the phrase "Super Bowl" in that quote at all.



    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    I wasn't "suggesting" anything Nick.
    Not buying it, Mok. When you make a thread titled "Reality Check, Please!" addressing what you feel are overzealous fan reactions, like it or not, you're making a suggestion about those very fan reactions.



    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    Does anyone actually READ my posts?
    Yes. Now do you actually read our's? You said we needed to gain perspective, yet you're the one starting a new thread pretending that all of us suddenly think this team is unbeatable and Super Bowl bound when only two people even mentioned the playoffs, and it wasn't in the context of saying we were definitely going now. The double standard is ridiculous. You talk down to us by saying we need to look up the meaning of perspective, yet you yourself show a gross lack there of by suggesting that we've begun booking our trips to Jacksonville.



    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    Of course, if I criticize Bulger for throwing 3 interceptions in the first 3 quarters I'm just picking on him. My irrational hatred of Bulger knows no bounds and it's only possible for a deviant like me to mention something like that when the Rams won the game.
    How's the view from up there on the cross? :bored: :redface:

  6. #66
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    I don't see the phrase "Super Bowl" in that quote at all.
    So what? Is that really your impression of what I'm trying to say? The original line I wrote was a continuation of what I felt many others were already saying. It doesn't matter if it's the next 2 games in a row, the playoffs and/or the Super Bowl. My point, which you've somehow missed after 5 pages of back and forth, is that everyone is "counting chickens" instead of enjoying the victory itself. Enjoying 6 minutes of regulation and a drive in overtime to be more precise.

    Not buying it, Mok. When you make a thread titled "Reality Check, Please!" addressing what you feel are overzealous fan reactions, like it or not, you're making a suggestion about those very fan reactions.
    So, are you saying you're only reading the title of the thread? I'm not "suggesting" or "insinuating" anything, I'm laying it all out there. I've given examples as well as my feeling on the subject. I wouldn't think there was anything to interpret.

    Yes. Now do you actually read our's?
    As a matter of fact, yes. That's why I started this thread. I guess I have to point out again that the word "playoffs" or "Super Bowl" isn't crucial to my argument. The over exaggeration of what the comeback means, and the perception many on this board took from the game are very unrealistic to me. Instead of just enjoying the 2nd biggest comeback with only 6 minutes left in a game in NFL history, so many of you are talking about how the Rams have turned a corner, how winnable the next 5-6 games are, how the rest of the league has to look out for the Rams offense again, how Curtis and McDonald have EMERGED, etc. etc. These are all gross exaggerations in my opinion and take away from the thrill of the comeback for me.

    In no way should the Rams be strutting around like they went in and BEAT the Seahawks. The were outplayed for most of the day and wound up stealing a victory. It's not a bad thing, it just "is". Just like when the Colts stole the victory against Tampa Bay with very little time left, they should be happy to have escaped with a win and build upon the positives.

    How's the view from up there on the cross?
    You're right. No one's ever jumped down my throat for criticizing Bulger. I'm just making that up too. If this is the type of nonsense Christ had to put up with, maybe there's a good reason he hasn't come back.

  7. #67
    viper's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Moklerman, I have held off on commenting on this thread until virtually everyone had an opportunity to say their piece and you had an opportunity to resond, etc. etc. etc.

    I will say that, I could have and probably would have written a similar thread that was virtually the same as your original thread that we are discussing herein. I felt that your original thread did have plenty of positive feedback. It also had a realistic tone that all should head.

    Again, I would say, you don't have to defend yourself to the degree that you do...but, it is admirable. I think your original post speaks for itself. A word of advise, sometimes less is more. But, you are good at it, so I'll leave that to you.

    I was at the game. For the first 3 1/2 quarters we stunk up the joint. I had pretty much given up the ghost. Any Rams fan who was there or who were watching on TV up until the middle of the 3rd quarter, pretty much may have had a feeling that the game was over and we were just waiting for the fat lady to sing.

    Granted, there were a few great plays to watch, such as Jackson running for 47 plus or minus yards or Bulger running for a touchdown on the next play.

    But, as you suggest, there were many poor plays on the Rams leading up to those plays that should cause us all to be cautious. Our run defense is poor, our pass defense is really poor (Cody & Archuleta in pass coverage is a joke). We can't get much pressure on the quarterback. We need to step up on defense for sure. Marmie did well when we bumped the receivers at the line of scrimmage and blitzed against the whiners (as I suggested). We need to keep that up. Otherwise, our defense is extremely pourous. This will be our downfall this season unless it is corrected in a big way. Special teams were improved and penalties were kept to a minimum on this occassion, but, may still be an area for improvement...we did better here.

    Nonetheless, with less than 6 minutes less in regulation time, our team came back with an inspired play that we could only hope for. That's the hope that we all have for the future, including yourself. That is what everyone who seems to be contradicting you is speaking of in this thread. As I have said before, we all are aware of the shortcomings of this team. You seem to see the glass as half empty and many others see the glass as half full (I believe Tanus mentioned this earlier).

    You are all correct...it was a great win!!! But, we do have much work to do if we have any hope of getting to the playoffs. IMO we have major work to do on defense, and Faulk and/or the offensive line needs to step up quite a bit. Faulk dropping two passes is so unlike him as Tex has stated.

    This win was a tremendous come from behind victory! Hopefully, something to build upon. I am as excited as anybody! But, as Mok says, we have a long way to go. Hopefully, this will be the spark we have needed to give us the inspired play that this team is capable of to get us throught the playoffs, so we are holding the SB trophy above our heads in the big game.

    Let's all come together and focus on THAT as the goal. Everything else is just conjecture. We are all on the same team, whether you realize it or not. Together we are stronger!

    All I can say is...Who's Next?

    Go Rams!!!



    Go Rams!!!

  8. #68
    thoey's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    First and foremost, Mok, I am with ya man...

    Second, Nice post Viper...

    :ramlogo:
    This space for rent...

  9. #69
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    In Mok's original post it seemed that he was just saying: at this point it is still a long season. Great comeback! Great win! Rams need to keep trying to improve.

    What's the big deal?? Correct me if I am wrong Mok...


    GO RAMMS!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #70
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Screw it, I'm editing this down from what it previous was.

    My point is that from what I've seen, we're doing exactly what you say we aren't, Mok: enjoying the victory itself. It's that reason as to why myself and others have asked why the exaggeration about our posts when you reference us "counting chickens."

    I definitely agree that we got dominated for over three quarters, and that that's concerning, but to say that we shouldn't be proud of this game or that we didn't really beat the Seahawks is a huge denigration to what these players accomplished in those final minutes of the game, and THAT makes it hard for me to enjoy this comeback. There was a certain amount of luck involved in that win, but there was also a lot of skill, too.

    That's my position. It differs from your's. That happens. We'll live. 'Nuff said.
    Last edited by Nick; -10-13-2004 at 03:44 PM.

  11. #71
    Fargo Ram Fan's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    I couldnt agree with you more Andy. I have always understood there is close to a COMPLETE lack of objectivity here. Whats new?

    I too celebrated and jumped for joy when they pulled out this win but there is still plenty to prove or DISprove. This is...after all....the SAME SQUAD who layed down like DOGS just 3 short weeks ago vs the Aints. Which game will prove to be the more telling example of what the Rams are all about under our beloved Rain Man?? I sure hope its this last one, but 4+ years of viewing garbage like the Aints game and last years Lions and Panthers debacles lead me to believe otherwise. With the D the Rams have there will be PLENTY of opportunities to prove that last Sundays comeback was no FLUKE.

  12. #72
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    I think THERE'S something WRONG with the volume CONTROL on this POST.

    In any event, if you want complete objectivity, I recommend www.ClanDisinterestedDispassionateNonpartisanFootballFans.com. I particularly like the continuing narrative titled the "Book of Whoever" written by AvengerRandomTeam.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -10-13-2004 at 03:41 PM.

  13. #73
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    My point is that from what I've seen, we're doing exactly what you say we aren't, Mok: enjoying the victory itself. It's that reason as to why myself and others have asked why the exaggeration about our posts when you reference us "counting chickens."
    Well, I don't know how many more times I can reference the examples of what I was talking about. You think I'm making stuff up, I think I've shown reasons for my opinion.

    I definitely agree that we got dominated for over three quarters, and that that's concerning, but to say that we shouldn't be proud of this game or that we didn't really beat the Seahawks
    I don't know what I'm supposed to say. You agree with me about my reasons but then disagree that I brought them up? I never said not to be proud about the comeback. I'm not going to keep re-hashing everything that you're missing or mis-interpreting just re-read my other posts more closely or with a different perspective or something.

    As far as "what does this have to do with Christ" (edited out, I guess I read the post before the edit), I would think your "come down from your cross" comment would make that self-explanatory. I don't think the world's against me and I definitely don't think I'm a martyr. I do feel that people tend to "interpret" or "assume" what I'm saying based on what they've read before rather than actually reading and understanding what I'm saying at the particular time.

    I couldnt agree with you more Andy. I have always understood there is close to a COMPLETE lack of objectivity here. Whats new?
    Thanks, Fargo. Sometimes I think my ideas must be coming from out of left field somewhere with all the controversy and coversation that transpires. Nice to see that I might not be crazy after all.

  14. #74
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    Nice to see that I might not be crazy after all.
    Are you sure you want to eliminate doubt? Perhaps ... if "Sanity is [but] a madness put to good uses, [then] waking life is [but] a dream controlled." - Santayana, 1900

  15. #75
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check, Please!

    Along those lines...


    What if C-A-T, really spelled "Dog?" Oger

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