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  1. #1
    HUbison's Avatar
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    The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    I recently found an article written by another coach (don't ask me who, I can't find the original source) discussing Jim Bates defensive scheme when he was with the Dolphins in 2003. Read it, and understand why I'm wanting to see him run our D.

    Bates is a very well respected coach in the NFL.....he also has been involved as most coaches are in the off season clinics, etc. I have never met him, but have been around people that know him. He is considered one of the leagues better DC by those that I've learned from over the past 18 years at clinics, etc. This defense didnt struggle because of anything he did or didnt do. The players didn't get it done on the field. PERIOD.
    He was one of many coaches that were influenced by Wanny and JJ, etc. that are in leading NFL roles today.

    The nature of JJ's 4-3 Defense, which Miami still uses, is a very aggressive Defense in its base. The Front 7 are in an attacking mode, it's not a relaxed read mode defense like some of the other 4-3 type defenses. The most common reads bring our DE's down the Line of scrimmage tight (in a "wrong-arm" technique) when OT's or TE block down, and the LB's into either a "Fit" (outside hip- off tackle) or "fill" inside a specified gap. Although there are many combo's of how fit and fill may work based on the front 4 alignment, its a very easy Defense to learn and run. But it's difficult to stop, especially if a team has two key ingredients.

    First - The WOLB in this defense is supposed to be "The man" on Defense. In college, USC placed Sammy Knight at the WOLB spot because he was such an exceptional player. He had played the safety position in the same JJ 4-3 scheme at his HS (Rubidoux HS in So Cal). Having Rodgers (another player from my area - so I don't mean to rip him, as he played for a friend of mine Barry Meier at RCC) at WOLB just never really worked out. When he came out of ASU everyone in Miami's organization thought with his maturity and speed that he'd be the perfect WOLB in JJ's scheme. Unfortunetly, it never came into reality. Rodgers wasn't the kind of playmaker the JJ scheme needs at that position. He was steady, but the position calls for spectacular. Take for example some of the people that have played WOLB in Dallas, the other team that runs our scheme. Norton, Coakley, etc.....playmakers, speed, maybe the best players on those D's. That's why it might look this year like we are running a "more aggressive scheme", but in reality it's the same with a playmaker named Junior Seau at WOLB. Add to that Marion and Knight at SS and FS, two other important positions in this scheme, and we might have our best year ever at creating pressure and stopping the run.

    Second - The SS and FS must be GREAT (not good) run stoppers in this Defense! Obviously the CB's need to be ok too, but it today's NFL it's more important for the CB's to be coverage studs. We have that. The Safeties in this scheme share outside contain responsibility (depending on the Defensive call and alignment) with the SOLB and WOLB. In other words, on one particular call and/ or read the SOLB might have contain on one side of the field, and the FS might have contain on the otherside - as well as flat responsibility against the pass. Or the OLB's could have contain in another call, or both Safeties could have contain in yet another. See, this defense mixes up it's contain responsibilities while also bringing outside pressure from DE (tight to LOS) and inside pressure. That is the treasure of the defense Dolfans. If you don't know who the contain man is (for sure) then it is very difficult to run outside, plus add in the fact that the OLB's are fast as heck, and the Safeties are run stuffers and you start to get the idea about why this defense is such a great one. It is a high pressure Defense even when no blitz is called.

    Something I like to tell the kids I coach, when I was DC at another school running JJ's scheme, is this:
    Just like it's been said over time that a team that runs the Option play PERFECTLY can't be stopped......this defense can't be blocked if it's ran PERFECTLY in terms of speed, aggressiveness, and duty. It is simply unstoppable. In my opinion as a coach trained by JJ's staff in Dallas (indirectly) , Greenwood and rodgers played not to give up big plays. However, in this scheme thats not how it should be played. The OLB and SS-FS need to be smart, aggressive players. Playmakers. I think Marion, Knight, Seau, and the winner of the battle at the SOLB this year will meet that description. BTW- When this Defense is going full steam there isnt a better scheme to watch in all Football IMO.
    aggressive, not a read-and-react (like Marmie promotes), needs a quick aggressive playmaker WOLB (Pisa) and a run-stopping LOS SS (Arch)........this sounds like what we need in my opinion.

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  2. #2
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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    Man, Hub, I feel like I just attended one of those clinics. Seriously, the more I read about Bates the more I think that he is the man for this D. However, I just hope that he is not here for just a year or two. I want long term stability, and I hope that he is the solution.
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  3. #3
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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    That's the kind of scheme that I could get excited about. I agree Hub, the read and react scheme we've been running has been painful to watch. What do you think the chances are that we'll be able to pick Bates up?

  4. #4
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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    As I noted in another thread, I think it depends largely on what Buffalo does with its HC vacancy. They are reportedly down to Mike Sherman and Dick Jauron as candidates.

    If they hire Sherman, there's a good chance that Bates will go with him, leaving the Rams with Jauron.

    If they hire Jauron, Bates would likely be available.

  5. #5
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    As I noted in another thread, I think it depends largely on what Buffalo does with its HC vacancy. They are reportedly down to Mike Sherman and Dick Jauron as candidates.

    If they hire Sherman, there's a good chance that Bates will go with him, leaving the Rams with Jauron.

    If they hire Jauron, Bates would likely be available.
    And this really is THE snag at this point. The Bills could go with Jauron for his ties to Levy, or promote within and get Bobby April........but their best choice would be to get Sherman who would certainly bring Bates along as well.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  6. #6
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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    I'm sorry HUbison but I disagree with you on one part. The LOS Run Stopping SS (Arch) thing. Arch won't ever be the same he has problems tacking and all that. Its time for us to move on and get over Arch. He won't ever be the same.
    RamsFan16

  7. #7
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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16
    I'm sorry HUbison but I disagree with you on one part. The LOS Run Stopping SS (Arch) thing. Arch won't ever be the same he has problems tacking and all that. Its time for us to move on and get over Arch. He won't ever be the same.
    You never know what another offseason can do for you mentally and physically,Arch was primarily in pass coverage and we know he sucks at that.
    My heart beats crazy and my blood runs wild

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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    I would be happy with Juron Or bates.
    My heart beats crazy and my blood runs wild

  9. #9
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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    Ok, I'm sold. How much?

  10. #10
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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    I do not want Bates to be your DC...for obvious reasons. I like this guy as a DC and I want him as ours, that is if Rhodes doesn't come back next year. The guy is a stud, and I have been singing his praises since he was let go from GB. The guy just turns defenses around and if you guys get a hold of him, in a year or two, your defense will be one of the best in the league, and since that is your problem now...well, you can see why I want him to go anywhere but there. I actually hope he gets a HC job somewhere, but i don't think that will happen because everybody wants to go younger or to a mor popular offensive minded coach. Boggles my mind. I thought he was a perfect fit in GB, better than McCarthy, and they were stupid not to keep him or promote him to assistant head coach or something like that.

    To be fair, not all evil robots are killers.

  11. #11
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    Quote Originally Posted by rawkhrdr
    I do not want Bates to be your DC...for obvious reasons.
    Okay, now that rawk doesn't want him in St. Louis......WE HAVE TO GET HIM!!!
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #12
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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    Bates Base defense now is a little different. He plays mainly 2 man Press.

    Basically your front 4 provide pressure. There are few blitzes. The 2 Safety's sit back and take away the long ball. The 2 CB's Attack the receivers at the line and try and bump them off their routes to mess up the timing. The Lb's watch the Qb and cover acordinly.

    Requires a Good MLB to stop the Run. A Ballhawk at S. And 2 above average CB's. Also there must be a dominant DE.

    Hope that helps...

  13. #13
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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    I have liked Bates for some time , But in his D you must have the right men in the right spots as stated by Welker83 Iam not sure we can manage that at this time ??? I do like what the future of (what could be)

  14. #14
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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    Okay, now that rawk doesn't want him in St. Louis......WE HAVE TO GET HIM!!!
    Thanks for the show of confidence HUb...but I am not the all knowing authority on defense. But I think you guys couldn't do much better than Bates. Hope that your new coaches fit in well, and I am definitely looking forward to next years games with you guys...they are always fun to watch. We just have to finish our year first...in 3 weeks.

    To be fair, not all evil robots are killers.

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    Re: The reason I'm hoping our new DC is Jim Bates

    Quote Originally Posted by rawkhrdr
    We just have to finish our year first...in 3 weeks.
    So this weekend does not count? Carolina is coming to town and you had better not overlook that fact.
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