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  1. #16
    AlwaysBackwards's Avatar
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    im defending donnie avery by saying that if he was on the eagles hed be just as productive as desean jackson.he is on a better team.better qb and desean jackson doesnt have bulger throwing to him


  2. #17
    molar_pistol is offline Registered User
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    this was a bad pick then and it looks even worse now. avery will be a good player, but desean jackson is one of the few true playmakers in this league.

  3. #18
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    Honestly on draft day I was so excited when and I saw Desean Jackson and to a lesser extent Devin Thomas on the board, you can go back in the records and look I was in love with Jackson. I really thought we were going to pick him since we like him in his pre-draft visits and everything. Once we picked Avery I jumped on board and supported him. Am I starting to question that decision? I don't know yet we will see.

    BTW Jackson was more injury prone in college than Avery, just saying

  4. #19
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    Can someone please define the term "injury prone"? Certainly, it can't simply be defined in terms of whether a player has, in fact, been injured.

  5. #20
    molar_pistol is offline Registered User
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    it would mean that...he is prone to injuries..

    for instance, avery was injured most of last season (though he played through much of it) and has already been injured twice this season. carriker is another good example.

  6. #21
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    Quote Originally Posted by molar_pistol View Post
    it would mean that...he is prone to injuries..

    for instance, avery was injured most of last season (though he played through much of it) and has already been injured twice this season. carriker is another good example.
    That is 100% wrong. Those are examples of players who HAVE BEEN INJURED. That does not make them "injury prone."

    If I stand in middle of the street, get hit by a truck, and get injured, its not because I am "injury prone," its because I got hit by a truck.

    Fans like to presume that a player who is injured more than once is somehow more "prone" to injuries, but that is not a logical conclusion. The two players you listed are a perfect example. One could say, "well, Avery is not that big, so he's more likely to get injured." Well, how does that explain the injuries to Carriker, who is 6'6 and 300 lbs.?

    You can't simply conclude that a player has some innate characteristic that makes him prone to injuries. If that were the case, it would be a constant, but history shows it it not. For example, take Orlando Pace. Over his final few seasons with the Rams, he was injured often. Does that make him injury prone? If so, how do you explain his first 8-9 years when he was consistently healthy?

    To me, the only time a player should be criticized for being injured, is when he misses time frequently for minor ailments. Avery has always tried to play through injuries, so I don't fault him for the bad luck of getting hurt.

  7. #22
    davidallenlongwood Guest

    Re: remember in last years draft...

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    That is 100% wrong. Those are examples of players who HAVE BEEN INJURED. That does not make them "injury prone."

    If I stand in middle of the street, get hit by a truck, and get injured, its not because I am "injury prone," its because I got hit by a truck.

    Fans like to presume that a player who is injured more than once is somehow more "prone" to injuries, but that is not a logical conclusion. The two players you listed are a perfect example. One could say, "well, Avery is not that big, so he's more likely to get injured." Well, how does that explain the injuries to Carriker, who is 6'6 and 300 lbs.?

    You can't simply conclude that a player has some innate characteristic that makes him prone to injuries. If that were the case, it would be a constant, but history shows it it not. For example, take Orlando Pace. Over his final few seasons with the Rams, he was injured often. Does that make him injury prone? If so, how do you explain his first 8-9 years when he was consistently healthy?

    To me, the only time a player should be criticized for being injured, is when he misses time frequently for minor ailments. Avery has always tried to play through injuries, so I don't fault him for the bad luck of getting hurt.
    So if his examples of "being injury prone" weren't accurate then what are your examples of injury prone players or do you just not believe in the term whatsoever and think every injury that happens on the field is just bad luck.

  8. #23
    RamOfDenmark is offline Registered User
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    I think there is such a thing as injury prone players. Players with weaker bones or cartilage which causes them to get injured more easily. However those are medical properties that we cannot accurately judge just by watching them play (you'd have to have the players examined in detail by doctors to find out - probably a part of the usual health checks performed by teams on newly acquired players).

    How many injuries a player has had is, or can be, an approximation of how 'injury prone' he is - but it's obviously a VERY rough approximation that likely depends a lot more on luck than anything else. So I don't think the term is completely bull but it does get thrown around too often after only one or two injuries that may not be indicative of anything.

  9. #24
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelyell View Post
    avery was injury prone when the rams drafted him? Wanna give us a breakdown of his college injuries?

    not at the time but i'm saying injury prone now sir...

  10. #25
    molar_pistol is offline Registered User
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    That is 100% wrong. Those are examples of players who HAVE BEEN INJURED. That does not make them "injury prone."

    If I stand in middle of the street, get hit by a truck, and get injured, its not because I am "injury prone," its because I got hit by a truck.

    Fans like to presume that a player who is injured more than once is somehow more "prone" to injuries, but that is not a logical conclusion. The two players you listed are a perfect example. One could say, "well, Avery is not that big, so he's more likely to get injured." Well, how does that explain the injuries to Carriker, who is 6'6 and 300 lbs.?

    You can't simply conclude that a player has some innate characteristic that makes him prone to injuries. If that were the case, it would be a constant, but history shows it it not. For example, take Orlando Pace. Over his final few seasons with the Rams, he was injured often. Does that make him injury prone? If so, how do you explain his first 8-9 years when he was consistently healthy?

    To me, the only time a player should be criticized for being injured, is when he misses time frequently for minor ailments. Avery has always tried to play through injuries, so I don't fault him for the bad luck of getting hurt.
    i don't really understand your argument. avery has been in the league 2 years and had a number of injuries already. carriker has been in the league a few years and has been lost for the season more than once. it happens; regardless of what you believe, some guys' bodies handle the punishment better than others. some guys are more aware of what's going on around them, it's often guys tumbling on the ground coming up under a guy and bringing him down after the play is over that results in an injury. whatever the case, some guys just tend to be hurt more often than others. it has nothing to do with size, i never said it did, which is why i listed a small guy and a bigger guy in my examples. the case of orlando pace is a foolish argument, the guy is old, yes older guys are known for getting hurt more and not recovering well from injuries. now, i agree with you to a point. there are a number of examples of guys who seemed plagued with injuries early in their career that went on to go long stretches of their career without major injury. maybe avery has been unlucky to this point, i don't know. the "injury prone" label is one i tend to stay away from for this reason. until a guy has played 4-5 years without being able to stay healthy i don't think it's fair to label him as "injury prone." i still have high hopes for both avery and carriker and think they could be huge positives for this team, i was just explaining the label and giving a couple of examples of guys on our team that have been given it.

  11. #26
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce4life View Post
    not at the time but i'm saying injury prone now sir...
    you wrote,

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce4life View Post
    remember in last years draft...
    When we selected injury prone Donnie Avery overr Desean Jackson.... sigh
    You should re-write that to what you mean then. If he wasn't injury prone, how can we remember drafting an injury prone player?

    Sorry, I don't believe the "injury prone" status for most players unless they have a more serious problem. Calcium deficiency? Disease which causes brittle bones? If fundamentally healthy, I don't believe people are more likely to be hurt unless it's because they allow themselves to take risks with their body. Avery dives for a catch and gets hurt does that make him more injury prone or is he willing to risk injury to make a play?

    Bruce was at one time considered injury prone. People even called for him to be cut because he couldn't stay healthy. Same with Frank Gore.

  12. #27
    Mooselini's Avatar
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    I don't know why people are making this argument.

    Jackson plays on a far more superior team than Avery.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Devaney, if you care about this team... fire the offensive coordinator!!!!

  13. #28
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    In theory, a person could be "injury prone." He could have weak bones, or a genetic condition that makes his soft-tissue more prone to tears.

    The problem is, fans presume that a player who is injured repeatedly is necessarily injury prone. That is, as I've said 100% incorrect, from a logic/scientific standpoint.

    If a 300 lb. offensive lineman lands on a player's knee from the side while that player's foot is planted in the turf, the knee is going to be injured. That is true whether the player is "injury prone" or not. If that scenario happens twice in two years, that's called "bad luck."

    As I said, fans are way to quick to label a player as "injury prone" when, in fact, they may just be unlucky.

  14. #29
    RamFan_Til_I_Die's Avatar
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    In theory, a person could be "injury prone." He could have weak bones, or a genetic condition that makes his soft-tissue more prone to tears.

    The problem is, fans presume that a player who is injured repeatedly is necessarily injury prone. That is, as I've said 100% incorrect, from a logic/scientific standpoint.

    If a 300 lb. offensive lineman lands on a player's knee from the side while that player's foot is planted in the turf, the knee is going to be injured. That is true whether the player is "injury prone" or not. If that scenario happens twice in two years, that's called "bad luck."

    As I said, fans are way to quick to label a player as "injury prone" when, in fact, they may just be unlucky.
    I'm curious, would you label Pisa as injury prone or unlucky?

  15. #30
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: remember in last years draft...

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFan_Til_I_Die View Post
    I'm curious, would you label Pisa as injury prone or unlucky?
    Hard to say. He's played 16 games in 4 of his 7 seasons.

    In his case, I'd suggest that he is a bit undersized for a player as physical as he is, which could have contributed to his injuries.

    Avery (5'11, 183) is not a big WR, but there are plenty who are smaller than he is (i.e. Jackson, who is 5'10, 175).

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