Report: Gruden to return to coaching in 2012; AJ Smith + Gruden Package Deal for Rams

[chucknbob]

1997 Raiders under Joe Buegel 4-12
1998 and 1999 Raiders were 8-8 w/ Gruden. They then won the AFC West in 2000 and 2001 with records of 12-4 and 10-6. He was a "tuck rule" away from getting to the superbowl in '01. (Sorry to bring up the 2001 SB)

2001 Bucs were 9-7. 2002 Bucs went 12-4 and won a ring.

In 11 seasons as a head coach he only had 3 losing seasons (also had a pair of 8-8). His record with TB was 57-55, NOT 48-51 like what was reported earlier (48-51 isn't counting the superbowl season).

Overall he has proven himself as a competent HC in my opinion.

[RAMFANRAIDERHATER]

I don't really care for either, especially Smith. Living here in Charger territory, the Chargers fans hate him with a passion. Almost as much as Turner.

But I'd take Norv as an OC. Just don't think Chuckie and AJ are the right way to go.

[Harry S. Truman]

The issue with Gruden in Tampa was this..

The defense he was inheriting was on the wrong side of the calendar. Basically, the large majority of the defense hit it's brick wall after the Super Bowl and it was all down hill from there. With all due respect to Tony Dungy, let's all be honest here, the Bucs were built on one side of the football, with patch marks, Mike Alstott and Warrick Dunn holding together the offense.

With the Rams, he'd be inheriting a young defense that needs seasoning but is very close to being one of the league's best, an offense that perhaps may be a true go to WR (Colston? Blackmon?) away from being electric.

I feel confident if he came to St. Louis, he'd be successful with the cards he's got. I also truly don't believe for one second he'd move Bradford or do anything out of the ordinary to ruin his chances in town.

I certainly wouldn't object to Fisher either, but I'm holding the proverbial "wait and see" on who he'd bring as his offensive coordinator beforehand. Then again, the offensive pieces (minus the go to WR) seem to be in place.. We'll see.

[Harry S. Truman]

I don't really care for either, especially Smith. Living here in Charger territory, the Chargers fans hate him with a passion. Almost as much as Turner.

But I'd take Norv as an OC. Just don't think Chuckie and AJ are the right way to go.

If you had your choice RamFanRaiderHater, who would your ideal and realistic choices be for both?

Not meaning to sound trouble stirring with this question, I promise. I'm just genuinely interested in hearing your thoughts on this manner.

[TekeRam]

Two questions:

1) How come the Raiders used the same playbook from Gruden's days?

and 2) How come Dungy didn't win anything with Dungy's roster?

1) Because after the Tuck Rule game, the Raiders essentially traded Chuckles to Tampa for a couple of 1st round picks, and then promoted Bill Callahan, the OC, to the head coaching position. Since they were in different conferences, they didn't really have to change anything in regards to protecting themselves from Chuckles. 2 weeks before the Super Bowl is not enough time to change a whole offense and calls, is it?

2) A little thing called the GSOT(1999 NFC Championship game), and then having to play in sub-freezing Philly in 2000 and 2001.

PS: Wikipedia lists the time following the Super Bowl championship until Chuckles' firing as the "Period of Struggle". Just a little FYI...

[JustinHasAnAxe]

With the Rams, he'd be inheriting a young defense that needs seasoning but is very close to being one of the league's best, an offense that perhaps may be a true go to WR (Colston? Blackmon?) away from being electric.

I feel confident if he came to St. Louis, he'd be successful with the cards he's got. I also truly don't believe for one second he'd move Bradford or do anything out of the ordinary to ruin his chances in town.

So why get rid of Spags?

He built a defense that "is very close to being one of the leagues's best."

The Rams are a mediocre offense from contending with any team in the league.

[TekeRam]

So why get rid of Spags?

He built a defense that "is very close to being one of the leagues's best."

The Rams are a mediocre offense from contending with any team in the league.

I've been asking that for weeks...

[chucknbob]

I think the last sentance answers that... He can't even build a mediocre offense.

[fliptalianstallion]

The Rams are a mediocre offense from contending with any team in the league.

lol MEDIOCRE?!

This is the probably one of the worst offenses in the history of the NFL. If we had an offense that could actually score 15-20 PPG, our defense would stay fresh enough to be in consideration of Top 15 material.

[PeoriaRam]

The issue with Gruden in Tampa was this..

The defense he was inheriting was on the wrong side of the calendar. Basically, the large majority of the defense hit it's brick wall after the Super Bowl and it was all down hill from there. With all due respect to Tony Dungy, let's all be honest here, the Bucs were built on one side of the football, with patch marks, Mike Alstott and Warrick Dunn holding together the offense.

With the Rams, he'd be inheriting a young defense that needs seasoning but is very close to being one of the league's best, an offense that perhaps may be a true go to WR (Colston? Blackmon?) away from being electric.

I feel confident if he came to St. Louis, he'd be successful with the cards he's got. I also truly don't believe for one second he'd move Bradford or do anything out of the ordinary to ruin his chances in town.

I certainly wouldn't object to Fisher either, but I'm holding the proverbial "wait and see" on who he'd bring as his offensive coordinator beforehand. Then again, the offensive pieces (minus the go to WR) seem to be in place.. We'll see.

So, if the Buccaneers' existing, fully developed defense was on the wrong side of the calendar, what did Gruden do to make the defense self sustaining beyond that? Oh wait....it didn't. Which means Gruden did a crap job of developing young players. Like those who populate our defense. Similarly the Raiders turnaround was fueled heavily by veterans that were brought in, rather than developing youth. There are greater meta-scale reasons about why the Raiders franchise collapsed from 2004 onwards besides "Bill Callahan is an idiot".

------------------------------------

And to reiterate another point, AJ Smith's contract shenanigans have not enamored him among NFL players. Gruden will find himself unable to acquire the players he needs to make his system and way of coaching succeed.

[PeoriaRam]

So why get rid of Spags?

He built a defense that "is very close to being one of the leagues's best."

The Rams are a mediocre offense from contending with any team in the league.

Because his Gameday coaching is atrocious. And hasn't improved one jot since he started as a head coach.

[macrammer]

So why get rid of Spags?

He built a defense that "is very close to being one of the leagues's best."

The Rams are a mediocre offense from contending with any team in the league.

Facts;

Rams are ranked 32nd in run d this year. FYI....there are only 32 teams
Rams are ranked 31st in overall offense
Rams are dead last in scoring and will score below 200 points for this season
Rams average 11 points PER GAME
Spags HC record 10-36, one of the worst all time percentages in history of organized football

IMO there is nothing mediocre about this team....medocrity would be an upgrade.

[BarronWade]

Rams had extremely limited money and undeveloped/cut draft picks this year... just saying.

Gruden also did that in a NFL-worst NFC South division in 2005. In 2007, Vick again was gone from the division, Delhomme was even worse than '05, and Brees and co had a setback year after the NFC Championship. Not saying that he didn't do his work to get his team up to play, but the rest of the division had a lot to do with those two seasons(as shown by their exits against the Skins and G-men). Fisher had to deal with the constant 10+ wins of Peyton Manning for most of his career, as well as the occasional spurt from Jacksonville and still has just about the same win percentage of Gruden. Both only had one post season with more than one win, where they both went to the SB, and then two more 1 win post seasons.

And the retort to who will be Fisher's OC(which I hope would be McDaniels to keep the same offense for at least one offseason...): who would be Gruden's DC, because we need run stuffing help, cornerback development, and to keep the pass rush alive. Stepping back in our one positive won't do anything to help the team. Motivation is great, but I haven't seen Gruden's ability to cultivate a lasting franchise. Fisher has that going for him.

First we did not have limited money... We spent it on Dahl, gave better than average safety money to Mikel...to think of it we had a pretty nice spending spree this off-season...many of our veterans are signed short term which is good.

Let me just start by saying Fisher is my 3rd fav option behind Chud (OC in carolina) and Jon Gruden. When it comes to division battles i think its safe to say the NFC west does not have a peyton manning

Also dude McDaniels is not the Rams solution...even if the team is injured how can not score a single point...how can u not include S-jax on a goal line play? ... Is it that hard to coach an offense to score a TD every now and then look around the league other teams have had injuries and are still scoring TD...id like to be in the clanram chatroom saying nice TD but i cant because McD is not our answer

We need an offensive guy...Look at the contracts of Bradford, S-Jax, Jason Brown, Jason Smith we have so much money and high draft picks given to these guys that we need an offensive minded head coach to utilize them...our offense is way more important than our D right now and im sure Gruden can find a DC

Also Gruden has the ability to cultivate a lasting franchise lets see Gruden took over a 4-12 Oakland Raider team and took it to consecutive 8-8 seasons then a 12-4 season followed by a 10-6 and his team had an 11-5 record with a super bowl app so lets see a 4-12 team re-built under Gruden's vision is 38-26... 49-31 if you want to give him credit for the 2002 team which he built...idk about you but a 49-31 record over a 5 year span is pretty good... especially compared to our last 5 years.

As mentioned earlier gruden was given limited money and top picks to get players to replace ageing vets...so what does Gruden do after a dismal 2004 campaign (after the 2004 season the Bucs did not owe any compensation to the raiders for the gruden trade) Gruden lead them right back into the playoffs with an 11-5 record...He re built the team after the 2004 season and was 33-31 i mean its not great but Gruden had his share of injured players and the team was still in a finnacial hole

Basically i want either Chud or Gruden but wont mind Fisher as long as he brings in a good OC

[sakl18]

Per Rotoworld:
ESPN released a statement to Profootballtalk refuting a report that Jon Gruden will leave the Monday Night Football booth for a return to coaching in 2012.

"Jon signed a multi-year extension with ESPN this fall," said ESPN. "He remains committed to being a part of Monday Night Football for many years." Multiple sources tell PFT that Gruden will indeed return to ESPN for the 2012 season. The original report may have been planted by sources close to Chargers GM A.J. Smith in an effort to get owner Dean Spanos to think twice about a possible firing. ESPN's Chris Mortensen insisted on Sports Center Tuesday evening that Gruden will not be coaching in 2012.

[bradwill]

I don't really care for either, especially Smith. Living here in Charger territory, the Chargers fans hate him with a passion. Almost as much as Turner.

But I'd take Norv as an OC. Just don't think Chuckie and AJ are the right way to go.

I'm not sold on AJ Smith at all. Anyone who fires Schottenheimer after a 14-2 season over personality differences so he can hire Norv Turner to be HC scares me some, as does how he mis-handled letting superior talent like Michael Turner and Darren Sproles walk. Then you have contract talks that get personal quickly(Vincent Jackson). Think I'd rather see another experienced GM in that spot. Ex-GM of SF McCloughan is one.

As far as Turner goes, his resume as an OC is very good and if the new HC(especially if its Fisher) and GM are willing, sounds great to me. Still rather see Marty Schottenheimer as HC, but Fisher works for me too. Gruden I think may end up in SD no matter what happens to AJ Smith.