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  1. #1
    skelley Guest

    Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    It's been a while now, long enough to review the decision to dump Warner for Bulger.


    I have since the very start of Martz's stint thought he was bad for the talent the Rams blessed him with. Warner most of all. As the 3rd season rolled in the Rams played more and more to Martz's ego. H epretty much saw a chance to scapegoat Warner and prove it was him that brought the Rams to it's highest high. Bulger was merely a tool.

    True, youth always wins in sports........but I thought even last year we'd been better with Warner these "Bulger years". Bulger seems to do just enough to have good stats, but not enough to make his team better.


    I just have always wanted to ask every Rams fan I meet this question......

    "was it a mistake to dump Warner for Bulger?"


  2. #2
    DistantRam Guest

    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    Quote Originally Posted by skelley View Post
    I just have always wanted to ask every Rams fan I meet this question......

    "was it a mistake to dump Warner for Bulger?"
    Yes.

    Okay, Kurt had problems with his hands but his passing was on a different planet altogether from Bulger's. Marc is a good, solid QB but he simply isn't capable of what Kurt could do at his best. I can honestly say that, at his peak, Warner was one of the two best quarterbacks (together with Joe Montana) I've seen in my twenty-five odd years of watching the game.

  3. #3
    Bar-bq's Avatar
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    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    Quote Originally Posted by DistantRam View Post
    Yes.

    Okay, Kurt had problems with his hands but his passing was on a different planet altogether from Bulger's. Marc is a good, solid QB but he simply isn't capable of what Kurt could do at his best. I can honestly say that, at his peak, Warner was one of the two best quarterbacks (together with Joe Montana) I've seen in my twenty-five odd years of watching the game.
    No;

    I'm not saying he wasn't a great Rams quarterback, undoubedly, he was one of the greats, but let's look at what's happened to Kurt Warner since his days as a Ram. Has he ever been at his best; Vintage Kurt; since leaving MO?

    2003- Injury, backup to Bulger the entire season. Rams win division and make Playoffs.
    2004- Starts six games for the NY Giants before being benched for rookie Eli Manning. The plan was to have Warner play the majority of the season, and have EM learn on the sidelines. Cut that offseason.
    2005-Arizona Cardinals- Starts three games, plays poorly, loses starting job to the now contender for the highly-touted Dolphins starting QB job, Josh McCown. Was reinstated as a starter and played well enough to guide the Cardinals to a losing record.
    2006- Replaced by Matt Leinart in the 4th game of the season after poor performance.
    2007- Filled in very well for Beerbong Leinart when placed on IR, but not enough to warrant a winning record, nor starting consideration this offseason.

    I'd say we're safer with the younger, more apt Bulger, who has not had a legitimately bad season off his own bat since 2003. Last year he suffered injuries, bad playcalling, a receiving core with a severe case of the dropsies, and a poor offensive line, no doubt contributing factors to his poor play. I hope to see a resurgence of Marc this season.

    Kurt served us well, but there's no way he's the better alternative in the given scenario. Twice replaced by rookies, once replaced by a fellow journeyman, no winning seasons, no playoff games.

    Bulger's record in that regard is much better. Two playoff seasons, only two losing seasons, not replaced , and a Pro Bowl MVP award to add to his mantelpiece. And don't even try to account the losing seasons solely to the poor play of Bulger.

    In 2006, he had a great year under Linehan. There was the notable mulligan, and the games missed to injuries, but a very solid offensive campaign, guiding the Rams to three consecutive wins to end the season. 2007, let's face it, was over before it really started.
    Last edited by Bar-bq; -06-11-2008 at 03:35 AM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    i wonder how long were going to have debates about Warner. I dont mind them but im just saying. Im 23 right now, and im betting when im 50, there is still going to be debates about Warner. Id of loved to of kept Warner. But he injured a lot and not all in part his fault. I do belive in Bulger and think he is better then just a solid QB and is great. He is a great QB in my opinion and we are lucky to have him. Warner might of done a little better them him if he didnt get hurt as much and didnt throw as many interceptions, and it'd still be nice if we'd had him. I beleive Bulger will have a great year this year that will help put Bulger debates to rest. I love Warner just like every one else, but that era has ended and i couldnt be happier with the QB we have.
    Last edited by Tampa_Ram; -06-11-2008 at 03:36 AM.


  5. #5
    mpire Guest

    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    I'll take Kurt Warner and a Time Machine over Bulger, Otherwise Marc is fine.

  6. #6
    DistantRam Guest

    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    All valid points, Bar-bq, but at the end of the 2003 season there wasa no way anyone could have known that Warner was going to have recurring problems. Therefore, I stand by my decision.

  7. #7
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    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    Man, that was some kind of record or sumthin......I'll see if bison can do his magic and see how long it would take TO RESURRECT THIS OLD TIRED DECIMATED DEADER OF DEAD HORSE!!!!!!

    People, Martz wasn't "blessed" with the talent. As Parcells says, if you want the coach to cook.....you got to let him shop for the groceries. Martz was the Super Shopper in that period, NOT Vermeil.

    Second, what's the difference if what was Warner or Bulger? Could they cover Steve Smith better than Sehorn? Could they stop the run? Could they tackle on Special Teams?

    This isn't golf or tennis. It isn't a one man sport. Hey Warner lost the first five in 2002 didn't he? Who stopped the bleeding (in this one player scenario)? Bulger.

  8. #8
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    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    Quote Originally Posted by DistantRam View Post
    All valid points, Bar-bq, but at the end of the 2003 season there wasa no way anyone could have known that Warner was going to have recurring problems. Therefore, I stand by my decision.
    Could have known? They already knew!

    By the end of 2003, Warner had already spent two seasons plagued by injury.

    I love Kurt Warner, and still proudly wear his Rams jersey. Probably will wear it to the Bash, and will monkey stomp a mudhole in any fool that gives me a hard time over it. However, after 2001, the Kurt Warner we knew and loved was gone, and hasn't returned.

    From 2002 to today.....
    Warner - 987/1556 for 11,357 yards, 63.4%, 54 TDs, 57 Ints., 3.66 I%, 7.3 y/a
    Bulger - 1578/2484 for 18,625 yards, 63.5%, 106 TDs, 74 Ints., 3.0 I%, 7.5 y/a

    And the rankings of each of these QBs rating during this time span:

    Bulger 2002 - 101.5
    Bulger 2005 - 94.4
    Bulger 2004 - 93.7
    Bulger 2006 - 92.9
    Warner 2007 - 89.8
    Warner 2006 - 89.3
    Warner 2004 - 86.5
    Warner 2005 - 85.8
    Bulger 2003 - 81.4
    Warner 2003 - 72.9
    Bulger 2007 - 70.3
    Warner 2002 - 67.4

    I love Warner, and always will. But since 2002 Bulger has been the QB for the Rams.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  9. #9
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    I have since the very start of Martz's stint thought he was bad for the talent the Rams blessed him with. Warner most of all. As the 3rd season rolled in the Rams played more and more to Martz's ego. H epretty much saw a chance to scapegoat Warner and prove it was him that brought the Rams to it's highest high. Bulger was merely a tool.
    Ooh, I love this game. Here's a few more.....

    ....the moon landing was faked.

    ....the earth is flat.

    ....9/11 was a government conspiracy.

    ....Evan Trembley is missing.

    ....the sun revolves around the earth.

    ....I wear the pants in my family.




    I'd forgotten just how much I love the "urban myths that create immediate loss of credibility for the poster" game!
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  10. #10
    txramsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    You had me up until Evan Trembley? Who is he? Has he been spotted with Paris Hilton lately or sumthin?

    Skelley, glad you are here. Keep posting. It's just that if we had to put the fire extinguisher to the Warner/Bulger/Martz/Vermeil/Chicken/Egg server because it was using to much redundancy.

  11. #11
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Man, that was some kind of record or sumthin......I'll see if bison can do his magic and see how long it would take TO RESURRECT THIS OLD TIRED DECIMATED DEADER OF DEAD HORSE!!!!!!
    As best I can tell, tx, the last thread devoted to Warner was this one by Mok. It lasted from March 6, 2008 to March 21, 2008.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #12
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    You had me up until Evan Trembley? Who is he?
    Google him........you'll get it.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  13. #13
    txramsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    As best I can tell, tx, the last thread devoted to Warner was this one by Mok. It lasted from March 6, 2008 to March 21, 2008.
    Yea, but with mok he always has some angle different than just blaming Martz.

  14. #14
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Yea, but with mok he always has some angle different than just blaming Martz.
    Indeed. I'll have to get back to you on the "Martz is Anti-Christ" angle.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  15. #15
    txramsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Reviewing the Franchise choice.....

    Oh, that Evan Trembly.....I get it now.

    Again skelley, keep posting but if ever a thread required hijacking, this one is it.

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