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Thread: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

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    clarasDK is offline Registered User
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    RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    Since our draft I have heard people voice the opinion that it might have been a better idea for us to take RG3 instead of sticking with Bradford and a handful of high picks…. This sentiment grew as RG3 got better and the Redskins started to get hot.

    I also read many places that the Colts made a mistake by taking Luck before RG3 etc.

    Well there is a reason for RG3 was not taken with the number 1 pick and that the Rams decided to stick with Bradford. And that is that a player who plays like RG3 is just a major injury risk and might therefore be a bad long time investment as a franchise QB. This became very clear this season and especially yesterday.

    Just look at Michael Vick who in my opinion is the closed thing that the league have had to RG3 so fare (even though RF3 is a more precise QB and be more mature allready). I think he only had one season where he played all games. And it was not like he gave the Falcons much playoffs success either...

    On top of that a QB relaying so much on speed will not last as many years in the league as speed will decline more with age that many of the other skills that a classic pocket passer uses. Again look a Vick, he is 32 years old and he is by fare not as fast as he once where (and he even sat out a few years where his body was not getting beaten up on the field do to the dog incident). At the same time players like Brady (35), Brees (33 years), Payton Manning (36) etc. are playing some VERY decent football even at high age. So a pocket passer type of QB is a much better long term investment for a team.

    Off course RG3 can probably learn to become more a pocket passer type of QB over time and play safer. Again he might not…. At least Luck and Bradford have already proven that they are that type of QB.

    Personally I am still very happy about how the Rams handle the draft and the value we have already gotten for the picks. And I am sure that long term we are much better off with Bradford and a lot of talent that we will get with the extra picks than with RG3 and nothing else…. At the same time I wish RG3 all the best and I hope he becomes a superstar for many years to come, as long as he does not get in the way of any Ram's superbowl runs....


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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    This article from ramsherd.com is a nice read on the subject.

    RG3'S KNEE ADDS A PAINFUL VARIABLE IN THE RAMS-REDSKINS DRAFT TRADE

    Written by Will on Monday, 07 January 2013 03:05.


    Holding the #2 pick in the 2012 draft and a mandate to rebuild the St Louis Rams in his image, Jeff Fisher had a big decision to make. Should he stick with Sam Bradford, to whom the franchise had committed vast resources -- both financially and philosophically -- or move on and draft one of the two can't-miss phenom quarterbacks at the top of the draft?

    Writing for SI, Peter King wrote about this decision as the biggest and boldest move of the Rams rebuild. As the Redskins and Browns engaged in a high-stakes bidding war, Fisher had almost no choice but to do the deal. In draft value, the Rams made out like bandits, but many fans have been vocal about wondering if we should have taken the quarterback. King lists two key factors: the coach's confidence in Bradford the player and Bradford the man, and the trade market for the 2nd pick, which was almost assuredly going to be used on Robert Griffin III.

    However, a third factor existed in the calculation. It has been almost taboo to mention Griffin's high-risk playing style as a determining factor. No one wants to sound like they are wishing injury on the man. But his collapse on a torn up field in a wildcard playoff loss to the Seattle Seahawks makes the topic unavoidable. We can say it now. The Rams unquestionedly got the better end of this deal, and they are the franchise better positioned for a long run of playoff contention at this point in time.

    Let's be clear. Sam Bradford had a good year, but nowhere near the kind of success or the kind of impact that RG3 had. Griffin, Luck and Russell Wilson combined to tear up the NFL's rookie record books, and along with Ryan Tannehill and Kirk Cousins, might lay claim to the best rookie class of all time.
    Bradford, with his draft contemporaries Tim Tebow, John Skelton, Colt McCoy and Jimmy Clausen, are not going to challenge for that title. But we haven't seen Bradford at his best yet.

    The fear for Washington fans right now is that we may already have seen the best RG3 has to offer, or the best his body is capable of delivering. Griffin posted an absurd 20-5 TD to INT ratio in his rookie year. He ran for an additional seven more scores while losing only two fumbles. But the punishment he accumulated during the process was severe, and costly.

    Running a read-option offense that forces defenses to account for the quarterback as a runner invites defenses to stack the box in response. Griffin faced pressure on a league-high 34.8% of his snaps.
    He was sacked 30 times and hit 27 more behind an offensive line that is one of the better lines in the league. Those are just his stats as a passer.
    He ran the ball an additional 120 times in the regular season. Let's conservatively estimate that he took hits on a third of those plays. Add 40 more direct tackles as a runner to his 30 sacks, and suddenly we're putting Griffin in company with David Carr, who got sacked 76 times as a rookie.
    We're putting Griffin in company with Michael Vick, who took a comparable amount of punishment in his first year as a starter, and who started only four games the next year.

    The challenge for Mike Shanahan this offseason is to determine whether they can break themselves of running the read-option offense, before they fast-track Griffin on the Randall Cunningham career path. If they do, they find themselves back to square one on offense. And square one starts without a first round draft pick in 2013 or 2014, robbing the Redskins of top-level talent to put around RG3. This invites Daniel Snyder to make more high-priced free agent mistakes to fill the gaps.
    Meanwhile, the Rams rebuild is almost apace with the Redskins in terms of record, and they are loaded with young players and more top-tier draft picks than any other NFL team in the next two drafts.
    Just as importantly, they have coaching stability with Jeff Fisher and his veteran staff in their first year of a rebuild, already proving the ability to refine the talent on the roster.

    Building a long-term contender in the NFL is all about fitting your key talent into windows. The window of the Greatest Show era Rams was far shorter than it should have been, thanks to Mike Martz's coaching power play and a broken front office that started stripping the roster's depth bare and could not restock via the draft.
    Despite having incredible offensive talent in Faulk, Bruce and Holt at their disposal for more than five seasons, the Rams were one yard away from failing to win a single title in their window of contention.
    The Rams may find their window opening as early as 2013, with an influx of talent and a ton of respect for taking on the 2nd-toughest schedule in the league and not backing down.
    The Redskins have Robert Griffin, Alfred Morris, a game of playoff experience, a wrecked knee, and a ton of question marks.

    Advantage, Rams.
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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    Let's not get crazy. Fran Tarkenton, Ken Stabler, Steve Young, John Elway, Randall Cunningham, and a dozen other guys who did their share of running all had long, winning, productive careers. To assume RGIII is a shoo-in for a major injury on the basis of him tweaking a knee late in the season is flawed thinking. Does he run the risk of hurting himself given the fact that the run is a part of his repertoire? Certainly. But I would argue no more so than a pocket passer who is a sitting duck playing behind offensive lines who can't protect him. And there are plenty of them around the league.

    There was a tremendous upside in drafting him. He is an electrifying player and a winner. He's well-spoken. He is NOT a run-first QB but a pocket passer who happens to run the football exceptionally well. He's energized a fan base and sold plenty of tickets. He's got the highest selling jersey in football and led his team to the playoffs. Most importantly as far as football itself is concerned, he had a good season statistically. If you want to say Washington gave up too much to get him, fine, that argument can be made. But anyone implying it wasn't smart to select Griffin is either brain dead or unable to see the bigger picture.

    With all of that said, I'm satisfied with where we stand with Bradford. Keeping him was the intelligent move both financially and from a football standpoint and the slew of draft picks we obtained help tremendously. Bradford can be a winning player if he continues to improve and we continue to surround him with better personnel. I'm confident it will happen.
    Last edited by NJ Ramsfan1; -01-07-2013 at 11:02 AM.
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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    We all like to second guess so here is what I think I would be asking if I was a skins fan. If we wanted a player like RG3 that can pass and run making plays to pull out games. Would we be better off if we stayed at the sixth pick and took Blackmon. Then in the second took Jenkins and followed that up in the 3rd to draft Wilson. We would still have our first round picks over the next two years.

    RG3 will always be compared to Bradford and IMO Wilson. To give up so much for a one of a kind players is one thing to have another team draft a very similar player in round three without giving up a ton?

    So I ask would you rather have RG3 or Wilson and all your picks back and a solid draft last year?

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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    Let's not get crazy. Fran Tarkenton, Ken Stabler, Steve Young, John Elway, Randall Cunningham, and a dozen other guys who did their share of running all had long, winning, productive careers.
    Let's compare apples to apples here.

    RGIII had 120 rushing attempts this year.

    Of the QBs you listed, most never had nearly that many carries in a season (most carries in one season: Elway: 66; Stabler: 21; Tarkenton: 62; Young: 76).

    The only one who had a similar total was Cunningham, who once had 118 carries in a season. Of course, he did break down eventually, as he was only able to start a total of 18 games in his final three seasons in Philadelphia.

    I think there is a distinction between a mobile QB and a run-option QB. In today's league, a QB who runs in designed plays on a regular basis is going to take a lot of hits and, as a result, be more prone to injury. In RGIII's case, size is also a factor. He is only 217 lbs. (compared to, for example, Cam Newton who is 245 lbs.).

    He is NOT a run-first QB but a pocket passer who happens to run the football exceptionally well.
    I don't agree with that statement. RGIII can be a pocket passer, as he has the arm and field vision to succeed in that role (unlike, for example, Michael Vick or Tim Tebow).

    However, the offense he is currently running makes him a run-option QB, meaning he runs by design, not merely as a last resort.

    I think its the offense that will need to adjust to protect RGIII.

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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    To assume RGIII is a shoo-in for a major injury on the basis of him tweaking a knee late in the season is flawed thinking.
    I haven't read any reports on his MRI, but a "major injury" may be more current reality than assumption right now.
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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    I'll take a pro-bowl caliber 14 games from RG3 over a mediocre 16 games from a non-mobile pocket passer...
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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    I'll take a pro-bowl caliber 14 games from RG3 over a mediocre 16 games from a non-mobile pocket passer...
    That's nice, but not relevant to the discussion

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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    qoute/To assume RGIII is a shoo-in for a major injury on the basis of him tweaking a knee late in the season is flawed thinking./quote

    Tweaking might be the most understated comment about what happened to that knee I have ever heard. Poor knee!

    my phone acted up hence the weird quote
    Last edited by Rammed; -01-07-2013 at 04:15 PM.

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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    There was a tremendous upside in drafting him. He is an electrifying player and a winner. He's well-spoken. He is NOT a run-first QB but a pocket passer who happens to run the football exceptionally well. He's energized a fan base and sold plenty of tickets. He's got the highest selling jersey in football and led his team to the playoffs. Most importantly as far as football itself is concerned, he had a good season statistically. If you want to say Washington gave up too much to get him, fine, that argument can be made. But anyone implying it wasn't smart to select Griffin is either brain dead or unable to see the bigger picture.

    I think AvengerRam made some good comments on most of your posts, so I will not post answers to those areas again. But stick with the above part.

    I did not state that taking RG3 was not smart. Only that it was smart for the Rams to let him pass and get a lot more building blocks for the future. And sticking with a QB who has a change to be productive for many years.

    Calling me braindead is kind of childish.

    And if we where into picking players based on the Jersey sales or creating energy we should have taken Tebow last year or?

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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    I'll take a pro-bowl caliber 14 games from RG3 over a mediocre 16 games from a non-mobile pocket passer...
    That's true BUT the results of his play may cause his play to decrease and he may miss more then just two games next time.

    Lets say he hurts the knee week two... does he come back in week four with the brace and play like a pro-bowler the rest of the season? He did not play like a pro-bowler in that game and he may have caused more damage. Bottom line if that injury happened in week two he would be out for a long time maybe the season.

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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    That's nice, but not relevant to the discussion
    That wasn't really directed towards Bradford as much as it was directed to about 20 other QB's in this league. If I was starting a franchise today I sure as hell know hands down I'd take RG3 to be my QB.


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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    That's true BUT the results of his play may cause his play to decrease and he may miss more then just two games next time.

    Lets say he hurts the knee week two... does he come back in week four with the brace and play like a pro-bowler the rest of the season? He did not play like a pro-bowler in that game and he may have caused more damage. Bottom line if that injury happened in week two he would be out for a long time maybe the season.
    Your talking what-ifs, whats your point? Thats like me saying what if Peyton Manning broke his shoulder week 1, would he come back and be as good week 4? Would the Broncos be a playoff team?

    I SERIOUSLY don't see where you're attempting to go with this..


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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    Sosa literally argues with anything anyone says. Everyone knew RGIII was an injury risk and now rumors are surfacing he tore his pcl and acl, and that's the third knee injury he's suffered this year.

    this isn't some awful assumption based on no facts. I can bring up 10 scouting reports listing RGIII reckless play and how it may lead to injuries and all are before the draft.

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    Re: RG3 vs Bradford my 5 cents

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Your talking what-ifs, whats your point? Thats like me saying what if Peyton Manning broke his shoulder week 1, would he come back and be as good week 4? Would the Broncos be a playoff team?

    I SERIOUSLY don't see where you're attempting to go with this..
    Sure you would take how it went down this year... Come on if you don't want to acknowledge the fact that he is at a higher risk then Manning to get hurt the way he plays then your clueless.

    There is a reason the NFL changed the rules to protect the QB. They where all getting hurt! Why do you think that is? The more hits they more likely they get hurt.

    Your making it sound like he is guaranteed to play reckless and only miss two game. That's not realistic at all.

    All QB's can get hit on every play that's a fact but the fact is they don't on most, The chances go up that your QB will get hit way more when he's playing part time as a RB.

    Lets see if the Skins rethink the offense they are using. Was that a short term play to help RG3 get up to speed faster or will they run this next year.

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