Richie Incognito - My Take, Don't Go Hatin' Me

[Nick]

...Sigh...as I previously stated (check page 3 of this thread) the numbers you cite do NOT accurately reflect Incognito's greatest asset which is his run blocking and also his ability to get to the second level and block down field. Plus when you factor in that he can play center (and is still the best one on our roster) his value is much greater than what some are willing to give him credit for.

Why the sigh?

I saw your response, and I understand those numbers don't reflect his ability as a run blocker. But ability in one facet of the game does not mean his weaknesses in another suddenly disappear from the discussion.

We're talking about an overall package here. Being the best lineman on this team means more than just being good in one area. In at least two other important areas - pass pro and penalites - he's among our worst. Or so the numbers would suggest.

[HUbison]

It's not merely the opinion of some crazy teacher

Oh come now, Nick. I'm not calling anyone crazy, nor am I disparaging your opinion in anyway. My point is that no matter how highly we may regard our opinion, they must, in reality, take a back seat to an NFL coach. But then again, that is my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong.

But Nick, you're a smart guy with a very watchful and analytical eye. Surely, watching these games you can see that Incognito is playing at a higher level than those around him. His run blocking has been quite good, whether straight up blocking, chipping or pulling. In fact, I've been very impressed with his abilities as a weak-side pulling guard. As for his pass protect..........if he is giving up 5.5, who is giving up the other 31.5?

Incognito may or may not be the answer, but he definitely ain't the question.

[Azul e Oro]

HEY....""crazy Teachers" ?! I resemble that remark...LOL

I don't think any of the o-line has clean hands individually or collectively. Even the widely-regarded weakest link ,Leckey, has had good moments. It's just the sad frustrating reality of this team that even when individuals or units play well, some other weakness negates it. last game it was Bulger & the fact that SJ wasn't in the game for the last quarter for whatever reason.

Funny how SJ gets all the credit for running well in the early going but no one mentions that Kreider is now gone- a glaringly consistent weak link all year in both run blocking and pass pro.

Time to put on my clown makeup & bite the heads off a few rats in my first class. The kids hate it but it sure keeps them in line.

[RAMarkable]

Time to put on my clown makeup & bite the heads off a few rats in my first class. The kids hate it but it sure keeps them in line.

Hey Ozzie Osbourne once bit the head off a chicken and look where it got him! Well..uh..maybe not the best example. Anyway, carry on!

WHAT SAY YE?

[RamsInfiniti]

HEY....""crazy Teachers" ?! I resemble that remark...LOL

I don't think any of the o-line has clean hands individually or collectively. Even the widely-regarded weakest link ,Leckey, has had good moments. It's just the sad frustrating reality of this team that even when individuals or units play well, some other weakness negates it. last game it was Bulger & the fact that SJ wasn't in the game for the last quarter for whatever reason.

Funny how SJ gets all the credit for running well in the early going but no one mentions that Kreider is now gone- a glaringly consistent weak link all year in both run blocking and pass pro.

Time to put on my clown makeup & bite the heads off a few rats in my first class. The kids hate it but it sure keeps them in line.

My only comment here concerns Kreider ...

When one of his replacements, Fells, was lined up in the backfield, I saw him repeatedly deliver some crushing blocks to help open up some holes ...

This guy could be a steal if we utilize him properly ...

[RAMarkable]

My only comment here concerns Kreider ...

When one of his replacements, Fells, was lined up in the backfield, I saw him repeatedly deliver some crushing blocks to help open up some holes ...

This guy could be a steal if we utilize him properly ...

Agreed. An let us not forget last weeks game against the Bears when he caught a 26 yard seam pass from T. Green. That's the longest pass play by a TE this year. This guy has got the talent we just need for our illustrious OC to commit to getting him the ball.

WHAT SAY YE?

[Nick]

My point is that no matter how highly we may regard our opinion, they must, in reality, take a back seat to an NFL coach.

Again though HUb, I'm not just talking about an individual opinion here. It's not like I just said, "I think Incognito sucks," threw in some subjective stuff, and left it at that. If that was it, then I'd definitely agree with your point about deferring to the coach.

But I'm talking about hard numbers collected by Stats Inc. regarding what he's done on the field that seem to directly counter any contention that he's our best lineman.

And thus far, the only response I seem to have gotten to those numbers is, "...but he's a good run blocker!" Okay, that's fine. I acknowledged those numbers didn't tell us anything about run blocking, and also gave him credit for his run blocking.

The problem is, even if you're a good run blocker, how do you get classified as the team's best lineman when you're second on the team in sacks allowed and in penalties? Being good in one facet of the game shouldn't complete erase poor performance in other areas.

Surely, watching these games you can see that Incognito is playing at a higher level than those around him.

The number of games I get to watch is limited. I try to download them when I can, but it's hit and miss as to how much time I can devote to watching them.

That's why I brought up the numbers in my first response and followed them up by saying that "someone would have to convince me why these numbers aren't indicative of his play on the field."

Yet it doesn't seem like anyone has really tackled his sacks or penalties. Rather, the response is to just defer to his ability as a run blocker. Again, I give him credit for that, but not at the expense of the other areas that need to be considered.

As for his pass protect..........if he is giving up 5.5, who is giving up the other 31.5?

I'm glad you asked!

Name       Games     Pen     Sacks     Sacks/Game
----------------------------------------------------
Barron        12       8       6.5           0.54
Incognito     12       7       5.5           0.46
Goldberg*     12       4       2.5           0.25
Bell          10       4       2.5           0.25
Pace          10       2       2.0           0.20
Leckey        10       4       2.0           0.20
Romberg**     10       1       0.0           0.00

*Goldberg only has four starts. 
**Romberg only has two starts.

Barron, whose strength was always supposed to be his ability as a pass protector, is credited as having allowed 6.5 sacks, the most by any individual on the team.

Incognito is next in line with one sack less, 5.5 in 12 games. Also keep in mind that while Barron has one more penalty called against him, Richie actually leads in penalty yards (59).

The next position on the list is a tie between Goldberg and Bell at 2.5 a piece. And then it goes down from there.

As you can see, the list totals to only 21 sacks. I imagine the remaining sacks were not attributed to any of these guys - perhaps a coverage sack, a missed RB assignment, a missed hot read by the QB or WR, a CB blitz that came free, etc.

But again, those are the numbers.

[maineram]

Nice post Barry ( originally ) If anyone on this board has the right to speak his mind about players it is the one who sees the players every day and knows what he is talking about.

Maineram -

[HUbison]

The problem is, even if you're a good run blocker, how do you get classified as the team's best lineman when you're second on the team in sacks allowed and in penalties?

Maybe Coach Haslett needs a subscription to STATS Inc. for Christmas.