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  1. #61
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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    Quote Originally Posted by jjigga3000 View Post
    Just like people who don't live in L.A. We did support our team. they moved because Georgia wanted more money. Plain and simple
    Correct, most people look at the number from when Georgia took over, discounting all of the years that the Coliseum would fill up and sometimes sell out. And before you jump on me for not selling out the Coliseum please be aware that back then it could easily fit 100k people plus. In fact, Rams hold the record for the most capacity there in a game against the Whiners if I am not mistaken. Stats can be interpreted many ways.

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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    It sounds like baloney to me. The Rams are here till 2015, plus, do you really think the NFL would allow a team in another city to get the rights on a stadium? The league still has to vote to allow moves, and there is no way they send that kind of message.

    It's malarkey, and ridiculous.
    Rams are in St. Louis until 2015 why? Because stadium leases are never broken?

    As for the league's vote to allow moves, did you miss the whole Al Davis thing?

    In any case, I wouldn't dismiss the landscaper angle so easily fellas. Rams former head landscaper Jim Haslett just could be a source.

  3. #63
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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonJoe View Post
    Correct, most people look at the number from when Georgia took over, discounting all of the years that the Coliseum would fill up and sometimes sell out. And before you jump on me for not selling out the Coliseum please be aware that back then it could easily fit 100k people plus. In fact, Rams hold the record for the most capacity there in a game against the Whiners if I am not mistaken. Stats can be interpreted many ways.
    She took over in 1979 Man!!! That's when attendance dropped off?? If that's the case and you managed to keep the team another 14 years then oh well. cry me a river build a bridge and get over it.

    It costs money to build a 100k stadium and depending on the variables you can lose money on that investment when you don't sell it out. That's enough to lose a team. Why shouldn't a city w/ population of LA have a 100k stadium? That's like arguing wealth through the decades ignoring inflation.

    Get the Raiders from Oakland. A team that actually won a Superbowl in los angeles. The Rams won the big one in St. Louis. Not los angeles. But like I said..the nfl doesn't last long in LA.
    Last edited by TheTalkOfTheArch; -02-08-2009 at 07:32 PM.

  4. #64
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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    I went to my first NFL game in LA at the Colliseum and saw the Rams multiple times in Anaheim. I haven't seen a live NFL game since they left. Do I want them back in Socal? Of course! I'd feel bad for the fans in St. Louis. I'd know exactly how you'd feel.

  5. #65
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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTalkOfTheArch View Post
    She took over in 1979 Man!!! That's when attendance dropped off?? If that's the case and you managed to keep the team another 14 years then oh well. cry me a river build a bridge and get over it.

    It costs money to build a 100k stadium and depending on the variables you can lose money on that investment when you don't sell it out. That's enough to lose a team. Why shouldn't a city w/ population of LA have a 100k stadium? That's like arguing wealth through the decades ignoring inflation.

    Get the Raiders from Oakland. A team that actually won a Superbowl in los angeles. The Rams won the big one in St. Louis. Not los angeles. But like I said..the nfl doesn't last long in LA.

    Arch,

    It was combination of her taking over and the move to Anaheim that caused some of the drop off yes. And remember 14 years is a short time in a team that was established in Cleavland in 1937. There is long history of the Rams here in LA from 1946 to 1995 (including a world championship long before the "super bowl") In Georgia's 14 years as owner in LA she managed to alienate the fans, the team and both cities that they had spent time in. CR wanted a new stadium before Georgia took over after his death, but that also was long before cities such as Houston, St. Louis and Jacksonville were willing throw around the money to get a team. They best they could do was get Anaheim to bite and it worked for awhile. If anyone thinks a city in this area will bite anymore on these types of deals, please see Raiders vs. Irwindale and Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim vs. Anaheim.

    There really is no magic that a team will stay in its birth city. History has shown that over and over. Cardinals, Colts, Rams, Chargers, Raiders, Oilers, and even the Browns! I am talking about dynamics that as a citizen of another city and another era, you may not be able to comprehend, and that's ok I understand that.

    As far as another 100,000 seat arena, you will probably never see that again. Remember that the Coliseum was built for the 1932 Olympics, and at that time it was easy to get 100,000 in this area interested in something like that. In fact one of the tricks they used to try to help the Raiders was to lower the field and to "close" off many of the potential seats, because they could no longer sell out under NFL rules. It helped for a season or two, but again you had owner issues. What has been learned over the years is 65, 000 seats is probably your best bet. The Coliseum was modified, but it did not help not enough. I will tip my hat to Al Davis because before dementia set in, he did try to win and yes they won the super bowl about a year or two after they got here. But just like Georgia, since his only business was football, unlike Jones and Kraft, they both had to try to extort money out of the cities to keep up competitively with other teams that had buckets full of cash (and I am being nice to Georgia assuming that she actually wanted to be competitive).

    The Raiders. As a life long Ram fan, I will always throw this out when some one mentions them " I would rather see my sister in a *****house than my brother in a Raiders uniform." That should explain how I feel about them. Now, most of the hard core gang-banger fans have either died, gone to prison or have floated over to the Chargers. Their true fan base here in LA wishes that they stay in Oakland. It is where they were originally from and that where they want them to stay.

    As far as my statement being construed as "crying a river" I don't really see it that way, but I suppose that you are entitled to your interpretation. My point was to simply state the truth. If you are going to compare attendance, you have to compare it all from 1946 to 1994. To compare to the attendance in Anaheim for its last 10 years would not give the complete story.

    I appreciate your passion and your efforts to hold on to your team, I wish you nothing but success in your endeavor. I know what it is like to have them ripped from your city after you have done nothing but support them. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. And get over it I have. I go to one game a year and see them in a different city. It is the best I can do to continue to support them as I have always done. With a little luck and we don't lose it all with this economy, I'll get see them in Chicago this year.

    Have a good week sir!

    Joe
    "The disappointment of losing is huge!"

    Jack Youngblood

  6. #66
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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonJoe View Post
    Arch,

    It was combination of her taking over and the move to Anaheim that caused some of the drop off yes. And remember 14 years is a short time in a team that was established in Cleavland in 1937. There is long history of the Rams here in LA from 1946 to 1995 (including a world championship long before the "super bowl") In Georgia's 14 years as owner in LA she managed to alienate the fans, the team and both cities that they had spent time in. CR wanted a new stadium before Georgia took over after his death, but that also was long before cities such as Houston, St. Louis and Jacksonville were willing throw around the money to get a team. They best they could do was get Anaheim to bite and it worked for awhile. If anyone thinks a city in this area will bite anymore on these types of deals, please see Raiders vs. Irwindale and Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim vs. Anaheim.

    There really is no magic that a team will stay in its birth city. History has shown that over and over. Cardinals, Colts, Rams, Chargers, Raiders, Oilers, and even the Browns! I am talking about dynamics that as a citizen of another city and another era, you may not be able to comprehend, and that's ok I understand that.

    As far as another 100,000 seat arena, you will probably never see that again. Remember that the Coliseum was built for the 1932 Olympics, and at that time it was easy to get 100,000 in this area interested in something like that. In fact one of the tricks they used to try to help the Raiders was to lower the field and to "close" off many of the potential seats, because they could no longer sell out under NFL rules. It helped for a season or two, but again you had owner issues. What has been learned over the years is 65, 000 seats is probably your best bet. The Coliseum was modified, but it did not help not enough. I will tip my hat to Al Davis because before dementia set in, he did try to win and yes they won the super bowl about a year or two after they got here. But just like Georgia, since his only business was football, unlike Jones and Kraft, they both had to try to extort money out of the cities to keep up competitively with other teams that had buckets full of cash (and I am being nice to Georgia assuming that she actually wanted to be competitive).

    The Raiders. As a life long Ram fan, I will always throw this out when some one mentions them " I would rather see my sister in a *****house than my brother in a Raiders uniform." That should explain how I feel about them. Now, most of the hard core gang-banger fans have either died, gone to prison or have floated over to the Chargers. Their true fan base here in LA wishes that they stay in Oakland. It is where they were originally from and that where they want them to stay.

    As far as my statement being construed as "crying a river" I don't really see it that way, but I suppose that you are entitled to your interpretation. My point was to simply state the truth. If you are going to compare attendance, you have to compare it all from 1946 to 1994. To compare to the attendance in Anaheim for its last 10 years would not give the complete story.

    I appreciate your passion and your efforts to hold on to your team, I wish you nothing but success in your endeavor. I know what it is like to have them ripped from your city after you have done nothing but support them. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. And get over it I have. I go to one game a year and see them in a different city. It is the best I can do to continue to support them as I have always done. With a little luck and we don't lose it all with this economy, I'll get see them in Chicago this year.

    Have a good week sir!

    Joe
    Hopefully the Rams come to San Diego in the preseason this year. I always make that trex when the Rams come to LO-CAL. Thats my best chance seeing our team. When they come back to LA, I'll be the first in line for season tickets!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #67
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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    A Rams move is unlikely at this point. However, if they do not improve significantly in the next couple of seasons, attendance will likely be sparse. If that is the case, and I hope it isn't, all bets are off. Personally, I just want this team to improve, and play consistently good football, no matter what town they play in.
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

  8. #68
    btimsah Guest

    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    Yeah that's a great idea. Move to a deflating economy where home prices are too high, wages will come down and people will be unemployed. The state of California is bankrupt and people are and will continue to be leaving in droves. It will be one of the poorest states in the next 10-15 years.

    Not sure I'd exactly run there. lol

  9. #69
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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonJoe View Post
    Arch,

    It was combination of her taking over and the move to Anaheim that caused some of the drop off yes. And remember 14 years is a short time in a team that was established in Cleavland in 1937. There is long history of the Rams here in LA from 1946 to 1995 (including a world championship long before the "super bowl") In Georgia's 14 years as owner in LA she managed to alienate the fans, the team and both cities that they had spent time in. CR wanted a new stadium before Georgia took over after his death, but that also was long before cities such as Houston, St. Louis and Jacksonville were willing throw around the money to get a team. They best they could do was get Anaheim to bite and it worked for awhile. If anyone thinks a city in this area will bite anymore on these types of deals, please see Raiders vs. Irwindale and Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim vs. Anaheim.

    There really is no magic that a team will stay in its birth city. History has shown that over and over. Cardinals, Colts, Rams, Chargers, Raiders, Oilers, and even the Browns! I am talking about dynamics that as a citizen of another city and another era, you may not be able to comprehend, and that's ok I understand that.

    As far as another 100,000 seat arena, you will probably never see that again. Remember that the Coliseum was built for the 1932 Olympics, and at that time it was easy to get 100,000 in this area interested in something like that. In fact one of the tricks they used to try to help the Raiders was to lower the field and to "close" off many of the potential seats, because they could no longer sell out under NFL rules. It helped for a season or two, but again you had owner issues. What has been learned over the years is 65, 000 seats is probably your best bet. The Coliseum was modified, but it did not help not enough. I will tip my hat to Al Davis because before dementia set in, he did try to win and yes they won the super bowl about a year or two after they got here. But just like Georgia, since his only business was football, unlike Jones and Kraft, they both had to try to extort money out of the cities to keep up competitively with other teams that had buckets full of cash (and I am being nice to Georgia assuming that she actually wanted to be competitive).

    The Raiders. As a life long Ram fan, I will always throw this out when some one mentions them " I would rather see my sister in a *****house than my brother in a Raiders uniform." That should explain how I feel about them. Now, most of the hard core gang-banger fans have either died, gone to prison or have floated over to the Chargers. Their true fan base here in LA wishes that they stay in Oakland. It is where they were originally from and that where they want them to stay.

    As far as my statement being construed as "crying a river" I don't really see it that way, but I suppose that you are entitled to your interpretation. My point was to simply state the truth. If you are going to compare attendance, you have to compare it all from 1946 to 1994. To compare to the attendance in Anaheim for its last 10 years would not give the complete story.

    I appreciate your passion and your efforts to hold on to your team, I wish you nothing but success in your endeavor. I know what it is like to have them ripped from your city after you have done nothing but support them. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. And get over it I have. I go to one game a year and see them in a different city. It is the best I can do to continue to support them as I have always done. With a little luck and we don't lose it all with this economy, I'll get see them in Chicago this year.

    Have a good week sir!

    Joe
    You nostalgic old geezer. I applaud your nostalgia I can comprehend it, I'm a life long laker fan hardcore. I would've loved to have been around for west baylor chamberlain even george mikan in minneapolis, so trust I don't mean to tread on your memories.

    That being said, not for a second will I lie down and take the rams moving back to Los Angeles. What about '99-'00? GSOT. You can't compare 100,000 to that how can you? Its completely different. I do feel like you however are treading on the fans in St. Louis and the history made here. If you want to pick a bone pick it with GF may God rest her soul.

    Anyway that's all fluff the point I want to make is you cannot CANNOT use attendance in its totality especially over that long a time span. You wanna talk dynamics. You have many different eras different generations and you have the dodgers moving from brooklyn and the lakers moving from minneapolis. Those fans in 1946 are dead, no ones going to move an nfl team there based on attendance figures in 1946. This isn't about 100k and the Coliseum. Its far too long ago. If Chip sold the team to me or anyone else I doubt they'd be thinking about the fearsome foursome or 100k when they sit down to decide whether or not to move the team to LA. Some people don't live in time capsules.

    The only question anybody wants to know is, as things stand now, can a team meet profit expectations in that market. The answer is a resounding no...NO. You have a nice work week too.

  10. #70
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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTalkOfTheArch View Post
    You nostalgic old geezer. I applaud your nostalgia I can comprehend it, I'm a life long laker fan hardcore. I would've loved to have been around for west baylor chamberlain even george mikan in minneapolis, so trust I don't mean to tread on your memories.

    That being said, not for a second will I lie down and take the rams moving back to Los Angeles. What about '99-'00? GSOT. You can't compare 100,000 to that how can you? Its completely different. I do feel like you however are treading on the fans in St. Louis and the history made here. If you want to pick a bone pick it with GF may God rest her soul.

    Anyway that's all fluff the point I want to make is you cannot CANNOT use attendance in its totality especially over that long a time span. You wanna talk dynamics. You have many different eras different generations and you have the dodgers moving from brooklyn and the lakers moving from minneapolis. Those fans in 1946 are dead, no ones going to move an nfl team there based on attendance figures in 1946. This isn't about 100k and the Coliseum. Its far too long ago. If Chip sold the team to me or anyone else I doubt they'd be thinking about the fearsome foursome or 100k when they sit down to decide whether or not to move the team to LA. Some people don't live in time capsules.

    The only question anybody wants to know is, as things stand now, can a team meet profit expectations in that market. The answer is a resounding no...NO. You have a nice work week too.
    Arch,

    I am sorry if you think I am treading on Rams fans that live in St. Louis and you take my posts personal (I am glad to hear you are a Lakers fan too. I have been one since the Magic days myself). I never try to answer for people that live in St Louis and I would expect the same from those that live there and have never lived in LA. When I see a post that quotes the attendance figures for the last 5-10 years of the Anaheim era I have to say something because there is way more to the story than those numbers. That would be like someone saying to you the Rams are no good. Your point of reference for that lacking argument would be the GSOT. You and I seem to disagree on the attendance stats and to me that kind of proves my point. Stats can be interpreted many ways. And I think again you are proving my point about the era's long past. All of these figures are fluid.

    I never said the Rams Super Bowl or the GSOT never mattered. That was one of the happiest days of my life and I am forever grateful for that. I doubt we will see something like from our team for a very long time. And yes they won it in St. Louis, I think I figured that one out.

    I also disagree with your thought that whoever buys the Rams they wouldn't think about the Fearsome Fouresome or the teams history. If I am not mistaken Deacon is listed in the "ring of Honor" at the Dome and he is pictured on the team website under history. History may not be an important factor to you, but it is to some one who would consider buying the team. I don't think the only reason Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys is because they were close to his house. And no they wouldn't be thinking about 100k with a a stadium, as I said before the magic number is close to what the dome is, 65k.

    I also disagree with you on your profit analysis. If the team sells, it wont make a profit in St Louis for quite some time because of the economy and because of the lack luster performance of the team for the last 5 years, but Chip would make a profit. If the team does move to any other city under a new owner besides besides St. Louis, they have a chance to make a profit based on aggressive marketing, PSL and long term commitments form the new host city.

    Finally this geezer, doesn't live in a time capsule, he lives in Huntington Beach and he is having a great work week, because "The Man" has sent him to Las Vegas for training!

    Good night!
    "The disappointment of losing is huge!"

    Jack Youngblood

  11. #71
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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    If the team sells, it wont make a profit in St Louis for quite some time because of the economy and because of the lack luster performance of the team for the last 5 years
    Why wouldn't it? It made a profit of $25 Million this year, if I'm not mistaken.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #72
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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Why wouldn't it? It made a profit of $25 Million this year, if I'm not mistaken.
    Hub you are absolutely correct, that is not what I meant to say. I was busy swimming through insults and foreign logic. Most NFL teams do make a profit based on TV rights alone. My guess is that most team will take a this year based on the economy except for your standard big name teams such as the Cowboys and Patriots. So the statement should have read "if the team stays in St Louis and continues to perform as it has for the last five years, it will be a challenge for it to make anywhere near the profit it would need to remain competitive in the NFL."

    Better?
    "The disappointment of losing is huge!"

    Jack Youngblood

  13. #73
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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonJoe View Post
    Hub you are absolutely correct, that is not what I meant to say. I was busy swimming through insults and foreign logic. Most NFL teams do make a profit based on TV rights alone. My guess is that most team will take a this year based on the economy except for your standard big name teams such as the Cowboys and Patriots. So the statement should have read "if the team stays in St Louis and continues to perform as it has for the last five years, it will be a challenge for it to make anywhere near the profit it would need to remain competitive in the NFL."

    Better?
    Oddly enough (and this shocked the daylights out of me), the Rams are in the top half for Operating profit in the NFL. Per Forbes...

    1. Redskins - $58.1 M
    2. Texans - $43.9 M
    3. Giants - $41.2 M
    4. Bucs - $39.3 M
    5. Pats - $39.2 M
    6. Dolphins - $36.1 M
    7. Bears - $33.7 M
    8. Eagles - $33.5 M
    9. Falcons - $30.9 M
    10. Cowboys - $30.6 M
    11. Jaguars - $27.6 M
    12. Raiders - $27.0 M
    13. Rams - $26.4 M
    14. Jets - $25.9 M
    15. Titans - $24.5 M
    16. Ravens - $23.0 M

    As well, the Rams have the 3rd lowest debt:value ratio at 6% (behind only the Packers 2% and Colts 4%). The two most leveraged teams? Jets 68% & Giants 55%. All other teams are less than 40%.

    A funny sidenote: The two least profitable teams in the NFL? The whiners at $4.1 M; and the ONLY NFL TEAM TO NOT MAKE A PROFIT Detroit Lions at $-3.1 M. Just goes to show.......that Martz guy really does screw a team up!
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    Good info Hubison.

    Seems a lot of people around here are pulling so called "facts" our of their arse. Nice to see something that comes from a real source.

  15. #75
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    Re: Rumor Mill - Rams apparently one of the teams bidding on rights to new L.A. stadi

    I was going to post those numbers myself, hubison, good look.

    Despite the attendance figures they've still turned a profit and are the 3rd least leveraged team in the league. I think that's pretty promising for St. Louis. Also kudos to management. I wonder how much money goes to teams for having a nationally televised game. We didn't have one last year.
    I think this city is pretty motivated by what the cardinals did and $30 million in renovations for the dome and spags. I think we're going to have a promising year. The City and the team.

    Oh and MoonJoe you want to talk about the economy. Well while wallstreet was asking for bailouts St. Louis brokerage firms weren't even sweating.

    While financial institutions worldwide are going to hell in a handbasket, St. Louis finds itself positioned as the financial center of the Midwest.
    St. Louis is home to four major brokerages — Stifel, Edward Jones, Scottrade and Wachovia Securities — an unusually large number for its size.
    “There isn’t any city outside of New York that has the concentration of brokers St. Louis has,” said Ron Kruszewski, chairman and chief executive of Stifel Nicolaus, which has 1,200 brokers in the U.S. “Chicago doesn’t have four major firms headquartered there like we do.”
    New York has dozens of investment firms, but many of them are the ones that have been hardest hit, such as Citigroup, and some, such as Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch, have disappeared.
    Go St. Louis Go Rams!!

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