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Thread: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    I love the faith shown here for our QB but the truth of the matter is he has a monkey on his back and he needs to shed it quickly otherwise the pundits will pile on. He should be better this year for sure but one of the larger question marks heading into this season from my perspective.


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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    "Getting past that" is indeed the operative phrase here. We can legitimately excuse much of Bradford's less-than-stellar performance in 2011 on his poor receivers, shoddy offensive line and resulting injuries. But that still doesn't eliminate the importance of him playing well in 2012. Anyone who has watched football knows how these variables affect a QB's psyche and performance (Bulger, anyone??), and it's important Bradford turn the page and perform like the guy we all know and hope he can be.
    Exactly. How many times in professional sports have we seen a great player, or potentially great player lose it because of the mental aspects of the game. Some examples I can think of are; Mike Tyson. Like many undefeated boxers, he had the feeling of invincibilty and just knew he was going to destroy the opponent. ...and always did. Then, a boxer from nowhere named Buster Douglas stepped in and clocked Tyson. He was never the same again. How about Tiger Woods? When he was in the hunt and in the lead before his off-field adventures caught up to him, he never looked back and destroyed the field. Now? He just about throws up on Saturday and Sunday if he somehow is in contention. Why? the skills were still there for both guys, but the mind wasn't. Marc Bulger was a good example as well. If you remember, he was a very acurate thrower of the football. Heck, he was good enough to surplant Kurt Warner in the eyes of Mike Martz. Then he was nearly beaten to death game after game by a horrible front line. He became a freaked out, runnin' from the shadows, scared QB. Even when the protection was good, he often got rid of the ball way too quickly 'cuz he knew the hits were coming.

    Bradford started to look a lot like Marc Buger last year. He felt pressure when there wasn't pressure and forced too many throws, and his accuracy was horrible at times.

    I also agree with others here that having a QB coach is the first important key in his "road to recovery". Saying that, it's pretty obvious that the past coaching staff made huge mistakes in handling Bradford last year. They threw a bad offensive plan at him with all the wrong weapons, and gave him no help on the line. They couldn't of handled it any worse. I think Fisher sees the potential in Bradford and understands better how to handle the young QB, and he WILL rebound this year. I don't think he'll set the NFL on fire, but only because he still doesn't have the tools around him to do so. But I think in year three and four, people will be talking about how special he is.
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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Well then shame on Jaws for not spending what probably was limited TV time giving viewers a complete and comprehensive checklist of the other factors working against Sam in 2011.
    Yeah, an injury with a major impact on mechanics, mobility, and confidence isn't really worth mention is it?

    Jaws made the point that Bradford was tentative in the pocket because of two things, "erratic offensive line play", and "receivers that could not win on the outside", just those two things. IMO, the injury was a major determinant factor in Bradfords performance in 2011, something Jaws never alluded to.

    Again, if Bradford has issues this year under "normal" circumstances, I'll start to worry and give creedence to what Jaws is saying, but that hasn't happened yet, so I won't, on both cases.

    I have no worries about a healthy Sam Bradford.

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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYHORNS View Post
    I agree with Jaws....

    We all know that Bradford can make all the throws and can be very accurate. When given time he can look like a probowl QB just like most QB's in this league. The question is can he stand the heat when the pressure is on. Can he maintain proper mechanics and extend a play by taking a hit? For example, Jay Cutler was severly harrassed last year but he made many many plays under duress. Lets hope that Bradford does not have to do it often this upcoming season but when needed it would show me and some of us that he is the future for this franchise. GO Rams.....
    Sam made some plays under duress as well - problem was - too many drops in key situations. This year he might have some receivers who will actually catch the ball and hang on to it ..

    The injury, O-line, and poor receiving corps culminated in a very low rate of success for Sam. It is hard to keep fighting the good fight, when a situation is hopeless. Over and over Sam tried, but I believe at a point, he became infused with the futility of the situation. Every so often I could see it in his eyes.

    If Jeff, Shotty and crew can scheme up enough scenarios for Sam to have some early success, the "tentativeness" will largely disappear. Nothing like first downs and scores to get Sam's competitive juices flowing fully again. (Pat Schurmur is looking smarter and smarter.)

    We as fans certainly have cause to be hopeful given the new personnel additions to both sides of the ball. The O-line's success or lack of it obviously will be a huge factor - can Boudreau make a real difference? Can Shotty consistently conjure up successful plays that don't require the O-line to hold their blocks for too long? I believe Boudreau and Shotty will come through and deliver ..
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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Yeah, an injury with a major impact on mechanics, mobility, and confidence isn't really worth mention is it?

    Jaws made the point that Bradford was tentative in the pocket because of two things, "erratic offensive line play", and "receivers that could not win on the outside", just those two things. IMO, the injury was a major determinant factor in Bradfords performance in 2011, something Jaws never alluded to.

    Again, if Bradford has issues this year under "normal" circumstances, I'll start to worry and give creedence to what Jaws is saying, but that hasn't happened yet, so I won't, on both cases.

    I have no worries about a healthy Sam Bradford.
    Well, ignoring for the time being that some (including the author of the original NFL.com article) would contend that Bradford did not look the same even before the injury, I sincerely hope that the Rams' offensive staff, specifically their new quarterback coach, does not wait until Bradford displays these habits under "normal" conditions before they decide to do something about them.

    If Sam rebounds in 2012, and I expect he will, I anticipate it'll be at least in part because he and the offensive staff worked hard over the course of the offseason to identify areas where he needs improvement, regardless of the adverse conditions he might find himself in, and worked to correct them rather than just brushing them off with a "Nah, he's fine," and hoping they magically disappeared once his ankle healed up.
    Last edited by Nick; -06-23-2012 at 11:00 PM.
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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    Danny Ammendola is one of the most underrated Rams of all time. To think some wanted a second round pick in exchange for Sam's ultimate security blanket is bewildering. A healthy ankle, healthy o line, and a healthy receiving corp will go a long way in showing the true Sam Bradford.
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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Well, ignoring for the time being that some (including the author of the original NFL.com article) would contend that Bradford did not look the same even before the injury, I sincerely hope that the Rams' offensive staff, specifically their new quarterback coach, does not wait until Bradford displays these habits under "normal" conditions before they decide to do something about them.

    If Sam rebounds in 2012, and I expect he will, I anticipate it'll be at least in part because he and the offensive staff worked hard over the course of the offseason to identify areas where he needs improvement, regardless of the adverse conditions he might find himself in, and worked to correct them rather than just brushing them off with a "Nah, he's fine," and hoping they magically disappeared once his ankle healed up.
    I could not agree more with everything you said here. Bradford is still on a learning curve with a lot yet to learn, including pocket awareness.
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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMFANRAIDERHATER View Post
    Well, I for one agree with Jaws. Sure there were multiple reasons for him to be tentative. Getting beat on a regular basis will do that to ANY QB. Having no decent receiver to throw to added to his problems, as did his injury.

    BUT..... Can he get past that? That's the million dollar question. The mind is a funny thing and convincing one's self that you' re getting protection and trusting your reads and throws is not always that easy. How this kid responds after a disastrous season is critical to the Rams future. I'm betting' he gets past it and rebounds, but it would not surprise me to see him continue to struggle this year either.
    This may not necessarily be an accurate comparison, but at OU in 2008, he had a stellar O-line and had a phenomenal year statistically. The following year, the O-line was horrific and he was injured multiple times. Obviously, the following year was his rookie year in the NFL where he set a few rookie records and was named offensive rookie of the year. Then the train-wreck that was the 2011 season.

    If I were a betting man, I think Bradford will be solid this year. I'm sure that there will still be some pocket-cabin-fever at times, but if the O-line can hold up reasonably well, by years' end, we'll all (hopefully) be back on the Bradford bandwagon.

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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Well, ignoring for the time being that some (including the author of the original NFL.com article) would contend that Bradford did not look the same even before the injury, I sincerely hope that the Rams' offensive staff, specifically their new quarterback coach, does not wait until Bradford displays these habits under "normal" conditions before they decide to do something about them.
    I would agree with that and the answer as to why he did not look the same was somewhat confirmed this weekend in an interview by Billy Devaney.

    "We lose Pat Shurmur to the Cleveland Browns, he's our offensive coordinator. And the decision was made to bring in Josh McDaniels and change the whole offense. And it kind of completely blew up on us," Devaney said. "It was the perfect storm, Doug and Rob. When you look at it, we had a ton of injuries, no offseason. It was just one thing after another. I could tell in training camp -- I mean early on, I don't even know if we started playing a preseason game -- things just, especially on offense, things just looked really ... nobody looked comfortable.

    I don't think any of us really know how much this impacted Bradford's play. Yeah I know other teams had the same challenges, but for some reason our staff did not get it done, the offense was a train wreck all year. Not only did they change the offense BUT they dumped all the blocking assignments on Bradford. Oh yeah they did not provide him with a QB coach. While McD is running around trying to get all the players on the same page Bradford is stuck trying to keep his mechanics in check on his own.

    Factors that contributed to Sam poor play:

    No off-season for Sam and the rest of the players on offense to get the playbook down.

    Injuries to Sam and the Danny A.

    MSW trade was a bust!

    O line injuries and poor play in general.

    Receivers and TE's dropping balls and not on the same page as the QB.

    We all can debate this until opening day or at least preseason. Until we see how Sam looks. Hopefully we can all exhale then. Until then I'm going with Fisher take... delete last year completely when evaluating Sam. As Billy said, It was the perfect storm, in our case a sh** storm.

    I also agree with Mike, until Bradford plays bad in better circumstances I'm not worried about our QB. I still think he is the real deal.
    Last edited by Rambos; -06-25-2012 at 01:40 AM.

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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I don't think any of us really know how much this impacted Bradford's play.
    Fans will never know for certain; this is one thing we can only speculate on.

    However, claiming that Bradford didn't look the same pre-injury because he wasn't comfortable in the offense would in large part contradict numerous glowing reports from last May that praised Bradford for having such a good grasp on the scheme that he looked like an assistant coach at Rams players' organized workouts during the lockout.

    I don't disagree that the lockout and shortened offseason presented some level of challenge for Bradford when it came to mastering the offense, but all indication leading up to the season was that Bradford displayed outstanding knowledge of the offense that went beyond what was expected. So I don't find it very likely that schematic comfort level was a large or even the primary cause of his struggles.

    The rest of your list of factors working against him is accurate and fair, and these factors, when combined, created a very poor situation for someone to try and succeed in. But I think as Jaws pointed out, Bradford allowed the poor situation around him to erode his mechanics, awareness, and confidence. As fans, we may understand and empathize given the situation, but that shouldn't negate Bradford's responsibility to keep his own play as efficient as possible, regardless of circumstance, so he's in the best place to help this team as its offensive leader. Sam should be held accountable for his performance just like any other player; I'm sure he wasn't the only offensive player affected by some tough circumstances this season.

    That's why I don't think you can just delete last year from an evaluation standpoint, and while Fisher can publicly say that to reaffirm his confidence in his quarterback, I would be both shocked and disappointed if Sam and this coaching staff weren't going back through last year's tape to identify some areas where he can improve and working on those areas with him to make him a better pro. The best quarterbacks in this league aren't the ones that are able to find success when everything is going right, but are able to adapt and find it even in the face of adversity. Sam is a talented player who has the potential to be that kind of leader for this team, and while much of his ability to become that player depends on what happens around him, it also depends on what he does to attain that goal.
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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Fans will never know for certain; this is one thing we can only speculate on.

    However, claiming that Bradford didn't look the same pre-injury because he wasn't comfortable in the offense would in large part contradict numerous glowing reports from last May that praised Bradford for having such a good grasp on the scheme that he looked like an assistant coach at Rams players' organized workouts during the lockout.
    I think Bradford had a decent grasp of the offense at the begging of the season but Bradford thought he had a real good grasp of it. Since then he has recanted those statements when ask how well does he know Shotty offense. I think the fact that he had to play an assistant coach sums up how bad it really was. He had to sit down with a coach that knew McD play book and try and figure it out on his own he could have no contact with the Rams staff, then go hold organized workouts during the lockout. I would guess those practices where a waste of time, all it really showed us is that Sam is a leader.

    Bradford's training as a coach is limited. He also happens to be a novice in the offense he's attempting to teach, a scheme brought to the Gateway City by new offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels.

    Presumably, once McDaniels is allowed to have contact with the personnel he'll be tutoring, he'll bring some official playbooks for the rookies. For now, Bradford's hand-written guidelines will have to do.
    I'm just guessing here but I would say the OTA's this year are on a different level then Sam and a handful of players in a park just sayin.

    I don't disagree that the lockout and shortened offseason presented some level of challenge for Bradford when it came to mastering the offense, but all indication leading up to the season was that Bradford displayed outstanding knowledge of the offense that went beyond what was expected. So I don't find it very likely that schematic comfort level was a large or even the primary cause of his struggles.
    I don't know how much of a factor is was but it would have to be a factor. From knowing the playbook or concepts on paper and having a chance to actually practice and get your timing down.

    "To have an offseason program, and to come here in a minicamp and get to have walk-throughs, get to have 7-on-7 — things that we didn't have last year — that really helps," Bradford said. "The more reps you get at it, the more comfortable we become."

    He said WE become, they all need to be on the same page, not just Sam knowing where to go with the ball.

    The rest of your list of factors working against him is accurate and fair, and these factors, when combined, created a very poor situation for someone to try and succeed in. But I think as Jaws pointed out, Bradford allowed the poor situation around him to erode his mechanics, awareness, and confidence. As fans, we may understand and empathize given the situation, but that shouldn't negate Bradford's responsibility to keep his own play as efficient as possible, regardless of circumstance, so he's in the best place to help this team as its offensive leader. Sam should be held accountable for his performance just like any other player; I'm sure he wasn't the only offensive player affected by some tough circumstances this season.
    Your right, Bradford should be held responsible for his play period. But this is another reason why I don't worry about Bradford bouncing back.

    He knows he played poorly at times and has come out and said it publicly.

    Bradford wants to polish up his mechanics and fundamentals.

    "Work on my footwork, work on my release, try to speed things up," Bradford said. "All the little things that maybe I've taken for granted, and took for granted last year, that may have dropped my play."

    Here is my take on Sam, he is one of those guys that has all the talent in the world and has the work ethics, desire, smarts and heart to want to be great. No offense to Romo fans but Romo is another guy that has a ton of god given talent but lacks the desire and heart to be great.

    I couldn’t think higher of Sam as a competitor or as a guy. I'm a D-lineman and toughness is a premium for us and that is one tough son-of-a-gun. He’s a competitive dude and he’s a dude that eats, sleeps and breathes football. I have to pull his arm to get him to go do anything fun, so his nose is always to the grindstone, but he is rejuvenated and I think he's going to get some more help.


    That's why I don't think you can just delete last year from an evaluation standpoint, and while Fisher can publicly say that to reaffirm his confidence in his quarterback, I would be both shocked and disappointed if Sam and this coaching staff weren't going back through last year's tape to identify some areas where he can improve and working on those areas with him to make him a better pro. The best quarterbacks in this league aren't the ones that are able to find success when everything is going right, but are able to adapt and find it even in the face of adversity. Sam is a talented player who has the potential to be that kind of leader for this team, and while much of his ability to become that player depends on what happens around him, it also depends on what he does to attain that goal.
    I will buy that... you need to look at where he is to move forward. As mentioned he already is working with a QB coach. When I say delete last year, I believe fisher used it to answer a question of where you ever thinking of going in another direction at QB. He deleted last year in regards to Sam long term potential as a great QB. Not lets not look at last year to see how he can improve. I know the staff as looked at it as you suggested as they want to get back to what he was doing well.

    "You have to kind of delete last year, look back to the way he played his rookie year, under Pat Shurmur, who did a great job with him in this offense,"
    "We're very excited. Brian Schottenheimer's an outstanding coach and we've got a fabulous quarterbacks coach in Frank Cignetti. They're off to a real good start. It's really fun to watch him work and watch him improve."

    “It was clear and obvious to us was that it was a change in the offensive system, and with the lockout, there wasn't a chance to install,” Fisher said. “People got hurt around him and people couldn't protect him. You have to delete last year and look back to the way he played his rookie year.”

    This is a huge endorsement by Fisher

    "The reason I came here is because of Sam," Fisher said. "We've got a franchise quarterback here."

    Again Sam will rebound this year. Fisher knows what he has. I think the old regime knew what they had in Sam to the point they forgot he's just a young NFL QB. They over loaded him with little or not support. They changed the offense to a more risk reward scheme, in the process Sam took a beating and regressed in his play, mechanics and in his confidence.
    Last edited by Rambos; -06-25-2012 at 12:56 PM.

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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    I guess we are a long ways from your performance in Super Bowl 15. And even further from your first season as a pro on the bench.

    Of course there is always YOUR second season where you compiled a QB rating of 44 in 5 appearances.

    SHUT-UP JAWS!!
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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    I guess we are a long ways from your performance in Super Bowl 15. And even further from your first season as a pro on the bench.

    Of course there is always YOUR second season where you compiled a QB rating of 44 in 5 appearances.

    SHUT-UP JAWS!!
    I like Jaws, but I don't care who you are, that is hilarious!

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    Re: Sam Bradford tentative in pocket, Ron Jaworski says

    "Move along, move along, nothing to see here."
    As in, I really don't have any new info, but I have to chime in.

    First of all, I respect Jaws as an analyst, even though he yaps too much, (so glad he's off MNF), but when he says "extenuating circumstances notwithstanding" (my paraphrasing), it's kinda' like "other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

    His all-pro RB and outlet receiver go down in the FIRST FLIPPIN' GAME! (Sidenote - how'd the Pats do without Welker, and how'd they do when he came back). His OTs rip pectorals and suffer concussions, while his center (understandably) is distracted by a personal issues.

    Oh, it gets better. He also gets to make the line calls in a brand new offense without enough practice/prep time.

    No big deal, he's got all these great receivers, Ooops, sorry, no he doesn't. Well, at least the stellar D will keep him off the field, stop the opposition, and take the pressure off him to score some points (read, pass more). Damn - that didn't happen either.

    As Nick pointed out, of course there are things he can improve on, i.e., mechanics, but again, it's sometimes hard to concentrate on draining the swamp when you're up to your arse in alligators.

    I have absolutely no concerns at all about Bradford's performance next year. None. Rams still have issues, but QB is not one. Just a poorly researched, slow news day article, and really, Jaws wasn't all that critical.
    And while we're at it, so what if he was "tentative", or 'hearing footsteps?" The inference that it would be a permanent condition, ala David Carr, is just patently ridiculous.
    Last edited by VegasRam; -06-26-2012 at 02:15 PM.
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