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  1. #16
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by MOM
    Ok, you're crazy. Just kidding, I have no way of truly knowing
    You got me there. I agree you are building a stronger case the longer I debate the issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYHORNS
    OK I will volunteer to eat crow. Who will feed it to me? It must be someone who posted support of Vitt and was bold enough to say that the Rams would respond well and play well with Vitt at HC. They must have supported him throughout the 3 games and predicted that even without HOlt, Bulger, and Bruce the Rams would win at home against the Jags....

    For the record, I never said anything negative about Vitt. Like most I hope he would spark some life into the team. It seems he has. I hope the spark sets a fire that burns all year long....

    GO RAMS
    This does not even come close to applying to you from your description unless you think we are going to lose against Seattle.
    The title is:
    Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    I would think the person that could feed you would be anyone here that does not doubt that we could win if you want to go out on a limb and say we are going to lose go ahead I think we will find enough people to serve you all the crow you want if we win. I for one dont doubt we could win that don’t mean I dont think there is a possibility we could lose.

    So you want to go out on a limb do you and say the Rams will lose? Okay your #1 any other takers.


    Quoting Hub:
    Hub made the statement he thought we would lose by 3 TDs and then he wrote an article about feeding himself crow for that.

    Then he turns around and says we did what we were supposed to do win at home.

    MOM I agree Hub never came out and said directly that he discounted Vitt. But I think you can agree he discounted the team’s performance while Vitt was HC. Discounting as in reducing his opinion by saying he thought we would lose by three TDs and then turning around and saying we did what we were supposed to win at home. He served himself crow last time he thought we would lose by three TDs and we won just wondering if anyone would like to do the same again and not give us a chance.



    Maybe you can debate this for me MOM:

    If you figured we would lose by three TDs why would you say we were supposed to win?

    Or you can debate this:

    Why would he bet his kids college tuition we would lose by 3 TDs on a game he says we are supposed to win at home?


    Call me crazy but I would not make either statement.




    All in all I think Hub is right AV, Hub, and myself are not far apart in our beliefs I just think he has tried to minimize the teams play under Vitt in order to not get peoples hopes to high but in the mean time I say let people get excited lets not let everyone get down now that we are starting to win just because people are starting to like the progress the new coach has made. Will he maintain progress maybe not but lets at lest wait for him to fail before we try to bring down peoples hopes. There is a chance MM will return but there is also a chance he won’t. I am not for or against MM but I can say that although this is his team he is no longer a major contributor to this teams success this year he is not going to be calling plays or managing the game. I wish it were Martz doing it just so we would not have to talk about the coaches and just be grateful for the team getting better. I don’t want to talk about coaches all year I want to talk about trying to win football games. Lets evaluate Martz/ Vitt/ ? after the year and focus on the players and the game. I never posted on this board during the heated debacle between Bulger and Warner but I am sure that was pretty boring listening to all the time and I think talking about coaches the rest of the year would be even more boring.


    ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS :

    LETS GO RAMS
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -11-06-2005 at 01:38 PM.


  2. #17
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    I wish it were Martz doing it just so we would not have to talk about the coaches
    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    I donít want to talk about coaches all year
    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    I think talking about coaches the rest of the year would be even more boring.
    1

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    6

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    For someone who claims that he doesn't want to talk about coaches, you've sure started a lot of threads about them.
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  3. #18
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    There was only one other thread that I have ever started before this last week that has to do with coaches. The only reason I brought up the coaches is because that was being brought up in several threads. In the threads some were saying such things as Martz guys, talking about the media and Martz, FO and Martz, and other things. I thought it was silly to discuss all the time and I hope we have exhausted all we need to talk about and let the FO and MM argue it out while we watch Vitt and the Rams try to make a run at the playoffs. This is the last thread I will start about coaches until after the year. I think some others should table the circus show also until after the year. IMO.
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -11-06-2005 at 02:21 PM.

  4. #19
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    There was only one other thread that I have ever started before this last week that has to do with coaches.
    Good for you. Doesn't eliminate the absolute hypocrisy of starting seven threads about coaches in as many days, only to turn around and say how much you hate or don't want to talk about them.


    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    This is the last thread I will start about coaches until after the year.
    Hmm, I see. You'll forgive me if I don't exactly take that one to the bank.
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  5. #20
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Good for you. Doesn't eliminate the absolute hypocrisy of starting seven threads about coaches in as many days, only to turn around and say how much you hate or don't want to talk about them.
    It’s because of statements like yours that things get carried on. Like I said it has only been over the last week all 7 of them and it directly related to a lot of what I had seen in threads. I did vent over some of the stuff I have read and you and Hub helped keep it going for 1 week you must have enjoyed it to keep arguing about it.

    Hmm, I see. You'll forgive me if I don't exactly take that one to the bank.
    Believe what you want, but where beyond this last week do I have a history of talking about coaches.
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -11-06-2005 at 03:03 PM.

  6. #21
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    Itís because of statements like yours that things get carried on.
    This is great. You chastise me in this thread for supposedly deflecting guilt away from Martz, but when it comes to why you started seven threads in as many days on coaches, you deflect it from yourself by blaming statements like mine.

    This just keeps getting better and better.


    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    you and Hub helped keep it going for 1 week
    Threads Started About Coaches in the Last Week
    Nick: 1
    HUb: 2
    STL: 7

    Tell me again who has been keeping this topic going? That's right - you.

    Game. Set. Match.
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  7. #22
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    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by STL
    Quoting Hub:
    Hub made the statement he thought we would lose by 3 TDs and then he wrote an article about feeding himself crow for that.

    Then he turns around and says we did what we were supposed to do win at home.
    Some would say paraphrase to gross misinterpretation to failure in recognizing hyperbole.............but if you want to call it quoting, okay by me.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  8. #23
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    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    I did vent over some of the stuff I have read and you and Hub helped keep it going for 1 week you must have enjoyed it to keep arguing about it.
    Not particularly, no.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  9. #24
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    This is great. You chastise me in this thread for supposedly deflecting guilt away from Martz, but when it comes to why you started seven threads in as many days on coaches, you deflect it from yourself by blaming statements like mine.

    This just keeps getting better and better.
    What you are recycling is this Hub started it by saying:
    Quote Originally Posted by Hub
    Try to understand. Vitt is our interim HC, and there's nobody on this board that wants to see him fail. But let's not annoint him king of St. Louis until he does something other than average.
    I responded with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    If Vitt has been average with 4 ProBowlers out Martz and his losing record over the last 26 games has been below average.
    I mentioned this and yes the last I looked below 500 is below average but we do not need to revisit that topic. After I mentioned this then you tried disagreeing with my using the time when the losing steak begin and kept after me about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick on the Attack
    And there we have it, folks - the significance of 26 games instead of 29 is simply because the record over the span of 26 games is a losing one.
    So I asked how you would characterize MM last year and this year and you said you would not use the record of wins and losses. Wow last I checked that’s all that mattered is wins losses not passing yards or anything else. In your post you had No mention of ST, RT (was a killer for our QBs), and I think the bad D is just as much the HC job because he is supposed to be the one hiring D coordinators and making sure they have the same game plan in mind.

    LMAO I find it so funny that I chastised you when you started it by keeping after me about the last 26 games and then you tried to make fun of my reasoning. I ask about your reasoning it has nothing to do with the record and you left out key things that the HC has responsibility for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    Tell me again who has been keeping this topic going?
    Well I guess its me unless you respond.

    Game. Set. Match.
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -11-06-2005 at 03:51 PM.

  10. #25
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    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    So I asked how you would characterize MM last year and this year and you said you would not use the record of wins and losses.
    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    I ask about your reasoning it has nothing to do with the record
    Wrong, as usual. No where did I say I wouldn't use the record. What I said was I wouldn't use just the record, by itself, but rather in conjunction with other things.

    Go back and reread if you have to, which you obviously do, since you have no clue what you're talking about.


    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    In your post you had No mention of ST, RT (was a killer for our QBs), and I think the bad D is just as much the HC job
    And I responded to this exact concern in this post by saying if you wanted me to address specific concerns, you should have mentioned them instead of whining about it afterwards.

    I find it hysterical that the person who evaluated Martz simply on wins and losses over a period of time that he still can't explain the significance of is cricitizing me for a lack of substance in my evaluation.

    Just another glaring example of STL's ever-growing hypocrisy. It's really stacking up into quite a resumť. You should be quite proud. :up:
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  11. #26
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Wrong, as usual. Nowhere did I say I wouldn't use the record. What I said was I wouldn't use just the record, by itself, but rather in conjunction with other things.
    I asked How would you evaluate it then over last year and this year without leaving out games he has coached to determine if he has done good?

    This is the only mention of the record over that time I specified. That is hardly using the record to describe if you think the team has been playing below average.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    I wouldn't say, "Well Martz's record over the past two seasons is 10-11 so he's doing a bad job."
    Here was your break down I asked for 2004 and 2005 which was all last year and this year you conveniently through in 2003:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    What I would conclude is that one of the main reasons the Rams have not been competitive the last two years is because of their defense. In 2003, the Rams gave up their share of yards, but overachieved in a sense by forcing turnovers that kept the opposition from scoring as much as they probably should have.

    Currently, the offense is still running at a very high level, but you can't expect success when your defense is ranked last in the league in points allowed. I would say as my evaluation that Martz as a head coach has the ability to be one of the best in the league, but he needs a defense that is at least average in terms of stopping the opponent.

    Hiring Marmie was perhaps the biggest mistake of his coaching career, but I'm left wondering if Martz would have still made that hire if he felt more love from the front office. That's entirely speculation [read: not paranoia] on my part, but I would say Martz is capable of bringing in a talented defensive coordinator because he brought in Lovie Smith going into 2001, so there's no reason he couldn't do it again.
    (I ONLY ASKED FOR 2004 and 2005 WE HAVE BEEN A BELOW AVERAGE TEAM)
    So over that stretch, from 2003 to current, the Rams have been good but not great. They had a very good year in 2003, but failed to replace Lovie Smith with the kind of person defensively to keep this unit in check, and have suffered for it. If the Rams want to return to one of the best teams in the league, I believe they need to get rid of Larry Marmie, get rid of the forces of opposition in the front office, and find a defensive coordinator that can energize this team - say, Joe Vitt perhaps, since he's done a good job thus far as interim coach of keeping this team focused and, as defensive coordinator, is already familiar with the players and what we've been doing.
    I need some hip waders because the **** is getting deep.

    In summing it all up you only had one thing you directly attributed to Martz and that was hiring Marmie.
    BUT IT COULD HAVE BEEN THE FO FAULT
    but I'm left wondering if Martz would have still made that hire if he felt more love from the front office.
    Martz is capable of bringing in a talented defensive coordinator
    I am starting to think ST and Defense don’t apply to you as far as MM is concerned. I am starting to think that the only thing our HC is responsible for is offensive coordinator duties. Hell you are probably right the Marmie hiring was probably more because of MM not feeling the love he deserved. I dont think he could make a bad move now could he. You did not list any without a but.

    I missed the part were you evaluated the team in 2004 and 2005 and how you come up with if we have been better then a below average team or not over last year and this year with MM.


    Who keeps continuing this thread anyway?
    Oh I guess its must be me unless you respond.
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -11-06-2005 at 04:51 PM.

  12. #27
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    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by STL
    I asked How would you evaluate it then over last year and this year without leaving out games he has coached to determine if he has done good?
    Help me with this. I'm not understanding what is magical about the 2004 and 2005 seasons that make them the ultimate indicator of Martz' success or lack thereof.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  13. #28
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    Help me with this. I'm not understanding what is magical about the 2004 and 2005 seasons that make them the ultimate indicator of Martz' success or lack thereof.
    It all started when you said that Vitt has not done anything above average yet in his first three games. I compared that to Martz has not been above average over his last 26 games Nick said it was unfair to include the end of the 2003 season so I said okay 2004 and 2005 season give me a break down of our team. Nick threw 2003 in there I think everyone knows the early part of 2003 was good. I am saying since then we have been going down hill. I am not saying it’s all MM fault but you can’t say that he has done a better job then Vitt has with this team so far. Vitt cannot be considered good yet and may never make it but IMO he has done something above average how many teams could have had all the distractions and 4 Pro Bowlers out and won I would consider that better above average.
    Last edited by STLRAMSFAN; -11-06-2005 at 05:15 PM.

  14. #29
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Seeking volunteers to eat crow if Vitt wins against Seattle on the road.

    This thread has served its purpose. Now it's just a tired debate between a handful of people. STL said he doesn't want to talk about coaches until the year is over, so I'm going to make it easy on him and close this thread. It's outlived its purpose, and contributes nothing to the board at this point.
    Last edited by Nick; -11-06-2005 at 07:05 PM.
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