Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

#1 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

This topic has been bounced around a bit on various threads but to my knowledge, has not been addressed directly by the group during the off season as a stand alone topic. I bring this up in part in the context of the recent threat comparing the great rams receiving tandems of all time.

I admit that i can not watch any replays from the carolina game. within 45 seconds of the end of the game i ripped up and threw into the garbage my vcr tape of the game and refused to watch the highlights. Far too depressing.

However, for what it is worth and out of the dark part of my memory, here is what i remember. The play was set up beautifully. It was a perfect call by martz and a nice enough play fake by bulger. I thought Holt was about as open as a receiver ever gets without the db actually falling down. I thought he had 2 to 3 steps. The ball was clearly not on target. i thought Holt had it and was going in for a TD. I really thought he should have had it, even if he had to turn around and slow up just to catch the ball rather than catch it on the dead run to try and carry it in for the td.

At first, i thought he blew an easy catch, at least a catch that should be a catch that an all pro makes under those game conditions. I remember seeing the replay in the heat of the moment and thinking to myself that the cactch was harder than i first thought and that the throw was really lousy and that he should have made sure he caught it, given the game situation, without trying to make the perfect play by running it in.

Call me biased, but i still think isaac bruce makes that catch, even if he doesnt run it in.

Please give me your thoughts on the play. Should Holt have made the catch. Should he have slowed down and turned to be sure he caught it rather than trying to run it in?

Obviously, that was a critical play in the game. No way to know if it changes the result, but many of us can be very harsh regarding martz' play calling. You do have to give him credit when he deserves it, and you have to admit that was a perfect call at a critical time and the execution just didnt get it done.

This thread it about holt. I think it states the obvious that when bulger has a reciever open by 5 feet for an obvious td without a pass rush in his face with the game on the line he HAS to throw a much more accurate ball. if anyone feels differently on that, lets talk about that as well.

Ramming speed to all

Sign the Big Man

general counsel

**Nick** · #2 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

I think I'm thinking of a different play then, because the play I'm thinking of where Holt is way down field with a couple steps on his guy was on a pass that would have required Holt to stretch or even jump to make the catch, not slow down or turn around.

My opinion on the play is that it wasn't a really accurate pass, but I think it was catchable. For as much as people complain about Bulger's inability to throw the long ball, this one wasn't totally off target. In fact, I think Holt even had his fingers on it. For a guy who named himself "Big Game," Torry should have come up with that grab, especially if you're close enough to actually touch the ball.

The playoffs are about playing your best, your hardest, and doing what it takes to win the game. I think this was a catchable ball, and Holt gave up once he saw this wasn't going to be an over-the-shoulder special delivery grab.

I agree GC, I think Isaac Bruce makes that catch. For as much as Torry Holt has surpassed Bruce on the Rams as the primary receiver, I think Isaac would have pulled in that ball and would have given the Rams a lot of momentum. I know a lot of times the Rams receivers prefer not to take the huge hit if they can avoid it, but I think this is one instance where you HAVE to sacrifice the body and do what it takes to bring in that pass.

#3 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

Nick, maybe turn around and make the catch was not the best description. Maybe what i should have said was that he should have laid out and dove if he had to to make sure he actually caught the ball first, before worry about running it in. As i tried to express, i only saw it once, in the heat of the moment during the game. As an aside, when he dropped it, i fell to the ground and began pounding my fist into the floor screaming. My two year old daughter began to cry hysterically. I had to stop and rally her for the rest of the fourth quarter- A Ram never gives up!

When I was a very young kid, my dad taught me something about watching nfl recievers, not necessarily to be taken literally, but he is what he said. "If they can get their hands on it, they should be able to catch it."

As you say Nick, "Big Game" means playing your best in the big games. Bruce and Faulk brought their A games against carolina. I am not saying Holt had a lousy game, but he had a chance to make a superstar play with the game on the line and he didnt get it done.

ramming speed to all

sign the big man

general counsel

*Ferter* · #4 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

Geez gc, you ripped up the tape and threw it in the trash....man I was laughing when I read that....LOL

Anyways, I am not sure that Holt, or Bruce for that matter, could have caught that ball. To be fair, I will watch it again, since I still have my tape, but just off the top of my head I think he made a very good attempt at catching that pass. I have also heard it before, but I'm not sure I'm sold on the fact, that if a receiver can get a hand on a ball then he should be able to catch it. To me, it depends on the circumstances and I think it is easier said than done in many cases.

#5 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

Ferter, i will defer to your analysis on this after you go back and watch the tape since i dont have the heart to do it myself. Please post once you have had a chance to do so. If in the clear light of day, without the emotion of the moment, you think that it was an "uncatchable" ball, i will try to alter the indelible memory searing into my brain that holt didnt make the play. Again, i think we all agree he was wide open and the throw could have been a lot better.

general counsel

**Nick** · #6 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferter

To me, it depends on the circumstances and I think it is easier said than done in many cases.

It is easier said than done, but as a professional, that's the kind of catch you have to make. When you're in the playoffs, you have to come up with that grab. That was probably one of the better deep passes Holt was going to see on that route. Are we saying that all deep balls have to be right over the shoulder for our guys to make the catch? I really hope not.

While you're examining the tape, if you could, take a look at what yard line Bulger was on when he made the throw and how deep of a pass it was. I'm kinda curious. Thanks!

*Ferter* · #7 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

Hey guys, after further review....

Holt should definately have caught that ball.

Actually, he had the thing. He snagged it out of the air with one hand and pulled it into his chest area, momentarily getting two hands on it and then bobbles it away. He had his man beat by five to seven yards and if he hangs on it should be an easy six. I don't see him break stride, while trying to judge the ball, as it was thrown with a fairly high trajectory. He may slighty adjust his running speed, if so, it is not highly detectable in full speed replay and not at all noticeable in slow mo. He appears to be going full speed with minimal adjustments if any. The ball is slightly overthrown, but Holt appears to have the most trouble with judging the ball because it is at such a high trajectory. Regardless, he certainly should have caught that ball and like I said he actually pulled it in.

Nick, Bulger was standing on his own 26 when he threw the pass and holt gets his hand on the ball at the panther 24. So the ball basically traveled 50 yards in the air without factoring in trajectory.

**Nick** · #8 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

Thanks for the info, Ferter!!

#9 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

Ferter, thanks for the review and clearing it up for me once and for all. I find it fascinating that even hard core fans such as ourselves can have different memories of such a critical play in a playoff game. It just shows you that in the heat of the moment, no one really thinks that clearly. Now, had we won, we all would have watched the highlights dozens of times and it would be been clear from the start. Bruce makes that catch.....

ramming speed to all

sign the big man

general counsel

*tanus* · #10 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

Without a doubt Holt should have caught that pass.

*r8rh8rmike* · #11 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

We all have different perspectives, but the ball was overthrown and it would have been a circus catch by Holt. If the ball was underthrown, it probably would have been caught as Holt was wide open. Reaching out with one hand, pulling it in at full speed after tracking a deep, arcing ball with a defender barreling down on you qualifies as an extremely difficult catch IMO. That pass completed for a touchdown would have been an enduring NFL highlight.

I agree that the play was a great call by Martz, executed by all to near perfection, just a half step off. No way can I blame Holt, and it's difficult to blame Bulger. Just one of those crushing bad twists of fate.

*thoey* · #12 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike

We all have different perspectives, but the ball was overthrown and it would have been a circus catch by Holt. If the ball was underthrown, it probably would have been caught as Holt was wide open. Reaching out with one hand, pulling it in at full speed after tracking a deep, arcing ball with a defender barreling down on you qualifies as an extremely difficult catch IMO. That pass completed for a touchdown would have been an enduring NFL highlight.

I agree that the play was a great call by Martz, executed by all to near perfection, just a half step off. No way can I blame Holt, and it's difficult to blame Bulger. Just one of those crushing bad twists of fate.

I was trying to think how to say my opinion, but Mike did a good job...

*Ferter* · #13 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

I guess it is somewhat extreme to emphatically state that Holt should have caught that pass. Maybe it is best to refer to that pass as one that is catchable by an elite NFL WR. Grabbing a long ball out of the air with one hand and pulling it in at fullspeed is definately not the easiest of catches. However, it can be done and looking at the replay Holt was very close to doing just that.

*tanus* · #14 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

i bet torry will catch the next one like that. man, when he missed that big catch i was shocked. its just another event that bounced the panthers way in that game.

**Nick** · #15 (**permalink**) -02-07-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike

We all have different perspectives, but the ball was overthrown and it would have been a circus catch by Holt. If the ball was underthrown, it probably would have been caught as Holt was wide open. Reaching out with one hand, pulling it in at full speed after tracking a deep, arcing ball with a defender barreling down on you qualifies as an extremely difficult catch IMO. That pass completed for a touchdown would have been an enduring NFL highlight.

In one sentence, Holt "was wide open." In another, a defender is "barreling down" on him. Which is it? :confused:

Fifty yards in the air and it's close enough for Holt to get a hand on it and bring it in. Sounds like it was a fairly accurate pass to me over that distance. If the ball was underthrown, I don't think it would have been caught because we're talking about Holt slowing down and turning for the catch, giving the DB time to close in and make a play on the ball. Instead, the ball was delivered in front of Holt to ensure that he would be the only one around it since he had the DB beat. It wasn't right over his shoulder, but it was pretty darn close.

I'm fairly certain if you ask your QB to throw ten passes fifty yards deep, that throw by Bulger is probably one of the better passes you're going to get. Holt's supposedly one of the NFL's elite receivers. Great receivers make those kind of grabs.