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  1. #1
    Nick's Avatar
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    So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    ...what was your reaction to the Colts' loss tonight?

    Let me sum it up in case you missed it. The Colts, who have had red zone problems all game, are down by three with 1:43 left in the game. They get the ball back at their own 36-yard line, and Manning hits Stokley across the middle for a gain of 45 yards. Huge momentum shift! The Colts are now at the New England 19-yard line! Manning hits Harrison for a quick slant, then throws an incompletion. Third down. 0:49 left on the clock. Colts on the Patriots' 17-yard line.

    Rather than playing for the tie, the Colts forgo a chip-shot field goal and instead decide to take head for the endzone only to have Manning get sacked by a blitzing Willis McGinest, loss of 12. What once was a very make-able 34-yard field goal attempt suddenly became a difficult 48-yard attempt. What happens? Vanderjagt misses, wide left. Game over. Colts gamble and lose.

    So, how do Rams fans react? Fans who were critical of Martz's decision to play for OT rather than risk a sure-fire field goal to send the game into overtime, what were you thoughts on tonight? Really, I'm curious. Curious enough to give this dead horse one last beating.

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  2. #2
    moklerman Guest

    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    Other than a couple of Rams fans who won't let the conversation die, I wonder if anyone heard Dungy getting criticized for his decision? I didn't hear one peep out of the ESPN crew (which isn't really saying much) about it being a bad decision to go for the win. Actually, the fact that ESPN "get's it" and others don't is kind of sad.

    If your team is too afraid to go for a win, then your team doesn't deserve to win anyway.

  3. #3
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    So you're telling me that after witnessing the Colts roll the dice and lose a heartbreaker tonight - and after watching it almost happen to the Eagles last year against the Packers in the playoffs - you haven't budged one inch in your criticism of how Martz handled the end of regulation in the Carolina game? I really find that unbelievable.

    Tonight's game should have been a psychic vision to those that talked about how we had momentum and had Carolina on their heels. It should have been a glimpse into what could have been had Martz been "gutsy" and tried to have the Rams do something they'd struggled at all game: score a touchdown in the redzone. For as many of these supposed game-winning plays, there are just as many if not more bungles and missed opportunities.

    I hope some people who heavily criticized Martz look at tonight's game and came away with the understanding that maybe, just maybe, Martz wasn't too afraid to go for a win, but was rather executing a gameplan that he felt gave us the best chance to achieve that win. I think it would be naive to think that Martz wouldn't have received ten times as much criticism had he done in the playoffs what Dungy did tonight. We've sat here recently and have had discussions about who we'd rather have as a coach and how embarassing it is when Martz admits to forgetting the score of a preseason game. But after looking at the outcome of tonight's game and seeing it as a reminder of what could have happened, I feel very comfortable putting my trust in Martz.
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  4. #4
    LaRamsFanLongTime Guest

    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    I hope some people who heavily criticized Martz look at tonight's game and came away with the understanding that maybe, just maybe, Martz wasn't too afraid to go for a win, but was rather executing a gameplan that he felt gave us the best chance to achieve that win.
    I dont think he was so much afraid to go for the win as much as he just does not always think things through. In my opinion when your team is hot you go for the win. He had a timeout and Marshall was hot (you know the guy that almost never fumbles) They should have at least tried a couple of screens or maybe a draw play. Someting, anything, just do not kick it. I also feel Martz at the half should have got on Lovie and said hey what happened to the blitzes? All year they blitzed, in that game they backed off? Then you have the opposing team pinned deep with a long 3rd down play and you allow SEHORN!!!!!!!!!!!!! to be your deep safety??? I love Martz as a offensive coordinator but personally I blame him for this team not being the dynasty they had the potential to be. He coached a terrible game and I beleive once again let us all down.

  5. #5
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaRamsFanLongTime
    I dont think he was so much afraid to go for the win as much as he just does not always think things through.
    I'm not sure I understand that. If he wasn't thinking things through, I would think his tactic would have been to punch it in, not hold back. The fact that he pulled back and went for the tie seems to indicate to me that he actually was thinking things through and considering the implications and previous red zone attempts.

    Anyways, I was just curious if anyone who was critical of Martz's gameplan at the end of the Carolina game has changed their perspective even in the slightest based on what they saw tonight. I really wasn't trying to get into the entire argument again, but I just wanted to say how tonight's game made me feel better about Martz's decision in the playoff and see if anyone else had those same feelings.
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  6. #6
    theodus69 Guest

    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    Of course you don't hear them bash Dungy, He's the nice quiet type! Martz is arrogant and people love to F with him. As long as Martz keeps track of the score this season, hopefully he gets back to his " go for broke" attitude!!!! :redface:

  7. #7
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    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    So, how do Rams fans react? Fans who were critical of Martz's decision to play for OT rather than risk a sure-fire field goal to send the game into overtime, what were you thoughts on tonight? Really, I'm curious. Curious enough to give this dead horse one last beating.
    Martz is a good coach. And while he makes more bone-headed screw-ups than other coaches, he also designs a better offense than any other coach in the league. Having said that and after watching last night's game, I haven't changed my mind in the least. I've always known that Martz going for it doesn't guarantee victory in the playoffs. So seeing Dungy go for the endzone and fail doesn't teach me anything new. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but I can't criticize a coach for going for the endzone when he is driving in the last 2 minutes and has no timeout. Dungy gambled and lost, but at least he went for it...which is all the criticism I will give him and is all the criticism I would have given Martz.

    One bad decision doesn't make Martz a bad coach and shouldn't overshadow his win-loss %. However, a win-loss % does not make a bad decision above reproach either.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  8. #8
    AugustaRamFan Guest

    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    Nick - Make a coherent counterpoint about Mikey's performance and I will reply.

    Dungy and MM are very different. Dungy comes from a DC background and well MM comes from a OC background (a damn good one too). I do not see how what Dungy did in any way cuts MM any slack.

  9. #9
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    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    No guts. No glory. Nothing anyone else does changes the fact that sMartz' decision resulted in a loss. All sMartz did was prolong the length of time it took to achieve that outcome. Nothing ventured. Nothing gained.

  10. #10
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    Quote Originally Posted by AugustaRamFan
    Nick - Make a coherent counterpoint about Mikey's performance and I will reply.
    Not sure I'm following you. What in this thread has been an incoherent point on Martz's performance?

    This thread was meant to see if anyone's viewpoint about our loss to the Panthers has changed. Many people criticized Martz for playing it safe, thinking that we had a sure-fire touchdown if we would have proceeded because we had the Panthers defense on their heels, etc etc. Last night's game showed me that a reeling defense isn't quite as easy to knock off, especially when your team had been inefficient in the red zone all day (as our's had) and has missed blocking assignments regularly.

    It would seem that absolutely no one has budged from their criticism or even relented that Martz might have made the better call, even after witnessing what happened to an inefficient red zone offense when they decided to try for the knock-out punch instead of adjust to avoid their offensive weaknesses. People sit here and talk about guts, gambling, not being afraid. Well, the next time Martz makes a gutsy decision and it fails, I'll be sure to bring this up when people swarm over him with labels of being an idiot or a poor head coach.
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  11. #11
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    I think that the two games have one key thing in common:


    When a decision - whether to be aggressive or conservative - turns out badly, it opens the Head Coach to criticism. In other words, there is not necessarily a right answer. Rather, it all comes down to execution.

    Martz's decision against Carolina, though questionable, could have worked out had Wilkins kick in OT not fallen short.

    Dungy's decision last night to go for the TD despite having no time outs left, also questionable, could also have worked out had the pass protection not broken down leading to the sack.

    So what's the right answer?

    Get a big lead early and never let up.

  12. #12
    moklerman Guest

    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    By this kind of rationale, the Colts should have kicked the game tying field goal on 3rd down last night, right? I mean, Manning had thrown and interception in the red zone already so you can't trust him and Edgerrin had already fumbled in the red zone so you can't trust him. So what's left? Maybe a direct snap to Harrison?

    I was trying to think of an example that supported Martz, some other coach who did something similar and wound up winning the game. I didn't come up with one but I've only had Sunday Ticket for 3 years now. I did think of an example that isn't identical but basically applies and that's when Dom Capers of the Texans decided to go for the win with a two point conversion instead of a tie with the extra point.

    Obviously the game wasn't as important as a playoff game but win or lose, Capers established a whole new level of support from his team by making that decision. Conversely, Martz established that he doesn't trust his offense.

    Now, I understand your point of view Nick and if we were talking about something strictly mathematical I would agree that going for the tie might be a good move. But, the most important part of all of this is how the decision effects so many other things. From momentum, to player confidence, etc. Martz made a statement by giving up the drive and going for a field goal. If you were a player how would you interpret that statement?

  13. #13
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    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    AV, I agree 100%. Either way, if you get the W, the fans will love you. No matter what though, the coach can be criticized when the game results in a loss.
    This space for rent...

  14. #14
    AugustaRamFan Guest

    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    OK -
    First, I have trouble comparing the Ram's inability to score in the red zone last year over 20+ games including pre-season, with the first game of the regular season for the Colts this year. That is a big stretch.

    Yes - When the Ram's loose, MM takes the play calling blame. And I agree, wright or wrong. He was a better OC, when all he had to do was defeat a defense. In having to manage the whole team and each game, MM still has to micro-manage the O - this will be his downfall.

    Just because, another coach can't get his team to score in the red zone, does not immunize MM from criticism.

    As far as the Carolina game was concerned, MM choked on the biggest series of the season. Plain and simple.

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    tanus is offline Registered User
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    Re: So those of you who criticized Martz for his "lack of confidence" against Carolina...

    I just think it was a bad play call. I would have called some type of a rollout so you can protect yourself better against the sack. also, if nothing opens up you are already outside of the pocket so you can easily throw it away. i think dungy made the right decision by going for it, but the play call was not a good one.

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