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  1. #1
    RamWraith's Avatar
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    Some more finger pointing--Line related

    From me!

    I have come to think the problem just might lay within what we thought might be a solid framework. To me it looks more and more like Barron and Incognito are more of a problem than they are worth on the team. Injuries don't help, but it is much deeper than that.

    Last year Bulger called out some unnamed lineman and there was a lot of speculation. I am thinking that Cogs and Barron simply are too much of head cases and are not team players, and then you throw Terrell in the mix. They may have all the talent in the world but are uncoachable and selfish. They do not understand what it means to work together along the line and how everyone must be on the same page for things to work an gel. People these line problems existed long before Pace and Setterstrom went down. We have more issues than injuries along the front and think it may be deep rooted. Get ride of the attitudes and you might get rid of the losses. We need team players along the front not "ME" players or players that don't think as one.


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    AlphaRam is offline Registered User
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    What about Milford "Trunstile" Brown? He was absolutely horrible. Of course, McCollum didn't show himself very well yesterday, either. I bet he retires after this season.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #3
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    I've been critical of Barron for a while, and he's not doing much on the left side to really change my opinion. I really wish we could have gotten Jammal Brown that year. As for Cogs, he blocks well but there are real personality and attitude concerns there, given his penchant for penalties at just the wrong times. I also think Romberg is overmatched at center and just isn't a guy that's going to be a long-term answer for us. The fact that he's playing at less than 100% (Balzer claims Incognito is as well) doesn't help us one bit.

    I don't think anyone can deny that it's exceptionally hard to win with this line. Just look at the names. Barron out of position, McCollum out of position, Romberg, Incognito, Milford Brown out of position. This line is pathetic, yet the first response to a loss is to point the finger at the playcalling. I agree that the playcalling has been poor more than a few times, but the biggest factor in having a productive offense is and has been the line. This is true of every team, and was true when Martz was here. Ours is a joke.

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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    Nick, I wholeheartedly agree that the line is a major weakness, however it is not the end all be all excuse for everything. The problem is that our offensive playcalling is based on screens and short throws already and so other teams can just camp down on them. I understand Bulger is hurt but get him a little time by rolling him out and getting some downfield throws to be able to stretch the defense so that the draws and the screens have a chance at working!

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    rams 24/7 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    The finger should be pointed at the F.O, its horrible and I love the rams but were owned by an old woman who probrobly don't know what a first down is. and she refuses to sell the team or get a new F.O because those are her close friends working up there. so as rams fans we are just going to have to ride the waves and hope for the best
    Last edited by rams 24/7; -10-23-2007 at 12:49 AM.

  6. #6
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    Quote Originally Posted by TekeRam View Post
    Nick, I wholeheartedly agree that the line is a major weakness, however it is not the end all be all excuse for everything.
    It is IMO a much more legitimate reason for general offensive inefficiency than poor playcalling.

    You have to realize that the playcalling is a reflection of what Linehan believes this team can do. I agree that there are other plays I'd like to see in the mix to try and combat this line, but the biggest problem I see on this team is our inability to pass protect (seven sacks yesterday, made Tapp look like Bruce Smith) and our inability to consistently make holes for our running back.

    Being unable to do these things really limits what you can and cannot do on offense. That doesn't give Linehan a pass for his playcalling, because I think there's legitimate criticism that he hasn't adapted well from a playcalling standpoint to this team's problems. But that doesn't change the fact that, at least IMO, the line issues are leaps and bounds more of a problem to our offense than the plays being called simply because I don't think you see this playcalling without the line issues.

  7. #7
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line relatedl

    I definitely is the linehan. This linehan is just not NFL quality. While we may have to live with this linehan for the rest of the year, we'll need a lot of changes for 2008.

    I just hope this linehan doesn't get Bulger killed.

  8. #8
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    Our struggles are undoubtedly related to our sub-par line.

    When blaming 'playcalling' viewed from the stands or the comfort of the armchair, its ordinarily lack of execution that people are getting excited about that then translates into 'playcalling' when they feel that they need to vent at the HC/OC. There are exceptions of course, most memorably Dan Henning when HC of the Chargers. When asked why he didn't run a QB sneak on 3rd and long from his own one and went instead for an off-tackle that got stuffed for a saftey, he replied "Because we don't have one in the playbook."

    Not exactly lateral of thought..........................

    Our situation, which has been so colourfully illustrated by Peter King (If a little harshly) is simple, our offensive line is very poor. Conesequently execution becomes that much more difficult and you try and tailor your game plan around what you feel they are capable of achieving. Its that simple. Not saying mistakes haven't been made, but to blame playcalling is overlooking a much more basic problem.

    In terms of Barron and Cogs, I think you have two very diiferent issues. I think Barron is situationally motivated, whilst Cogs is personally motivated. One needs a good environment to succeed, the other needs a good environment to temper his enthusiasm. Both are undoubted talents but you have to question whether the current environment will bring out the best in them.

    I don't think it will.

    As for Bulger he needs to demonstrate why the franchise invested $65mil in him and there's no better time to do that than in times of adversity.

  9. #9
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang View Post
    When blaming 'playcalling' viewed from the stands or the comfort of the armchair, its ordinarily lack of execution that people are getting excited about that then translates into 'playcalling' when they feel that they need to vent at the HC/OC.
    Why does it need to be an either/or proposition?

    If its 3rd and 15, and you call a FB dive, its a bad call, whether you have the 1983 Rams' O line or the 2004 Texans' O line. Its not even a question of the outcome. Maybe the FB busts it through for 16 yards. Still a bad call, albeit one with a lucky result.

    While we may bere mere "armchair OCs," we have some ability to look at the way a coach calls a game and make some assessment of whether he is doing a good job.

  10. #10
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    Bring the Rams back to L.A.

  11. #11
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang View Post
    Our struggles are undoubtedly related to our sub-par line.

    When blaming 'playcalling' viewed from the stands or the comfort of the armchair, its ordinarily lack of execution that people are getting excited about that then translates into 'playcalling' when they feel that they need to vent at the HC/OC. There are exceptions of course, most memorably Dan Henning when HC of the Chargers. When asked why he didn't run a QB sneak on 3rd and long from his own one and went instead for an off-tackle that got stuffed for a saftey, he replied "Because we don't have one in the playbook."

    Not exactly lateral of thought..........................

    Our situation, which has been so colourfully illustrated by Peter King (If a little harshly) is simple, our offensive line is very poor. Conesequently execution becomes that much more difficult and you try and tailor your game plan around what you feel they are capable of achieving. Its that simple. Not saying mistakes haven't been made, but to blame playcalling is overlooking a much more basic problem.

    In terms of Barron and Cogs, I think you have two very diiferent issues. I think Barron is situationally motivated, whilst Cogs is personally motivated. One needs a good environment to succeed, the other needs a good environment to temper his enthusiasm. Both are undoubted talents but you have to question whether the current environment will bring out the best in them.

    I don't think it will.

    As for Bulger he needs to demonstrate why the franchise invested $65mil in him and there's no better time to do that than in times of adversity.
    and to show us he is worth almost as much as Jamarcus Russell?

    I would have to pretty much agree with your summations, Fat.

    No play calling will work if there is a lack of execution.

    Whether it is injuries causing sub-par players to play, sub-par players playing unaccustomed positions, decent or good players playing unaccustomed positions, lack of understanding/communication, lack of respect, lack of desire, or they want to be traded... who knows.

    There just seems to be a lack of intensity/desire.
    RnD

    GO RAMS!!

  12. #12
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    Nick, I wholeheartedly agree that the line is a major weakness, however it is not the end all be all excuse for everything.
    Top offenses will have top offensive lines. Look at any of the top-tier offenses, and you will find a consistently healthy front line. This year, three offenses have set themselves apart from every other....Indy, Dallas, & New England. All three have units that have been together since day 1 of camp.

    On the other end of the spectrum, you have 4 offenses that have been bottom-feeding all season......us, Atlanta, Buffalo, and SF. All with underperforming, beat-up, and outclassed O-lines.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  13. #13
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Top offenses will have top offensive lines. Look at any of the top-tier offenses, and you will find a consistently healthy front line. This year, three offenses have set themselves apart from every other....Indy, Dallas, & New England. All three have units that have been together since day 1 of camp.

    On the other end of the spectrum, you have 4 offenses that have been bottom-feeding all season......us, Atlanta, Buffalo, and SF. All with underperforming, beat-up, and outclassed O-lines.
    You forgot to mention all of those teams can score touchdowns. Also what is Baltimores excuse? They are missing 3 o-line starters and they are still winning and scoring. I would love to say that we are arm-chair qb's and dont know what we are talking about but that's just B.S. When we came out in the second half and actually ran quickhitters and mixed in some normal running plays we drove right down the field. Then what do we do on our next series we go back to long developing pass plays for the rest of the game. If that's not coaching then what is it. Bulger wasnt calling the plays. Neither were any of our second and 3rd string lineman. If you run screens and draw plays all game long it's coaching. Seattle wasnt fooled by 1 draw or one screen both of which nearly ended in a int. The coaching is more putrid than the blocking up front. Maybe Linehan is trying to bore the defense to sleep then once they are asleep we can score a TD. Well it is working Scotty, I mean you can take some shots once in a while but the middle of the field is there for the taking. Quick 7 yd outs,slants,hooks the te down the middle. Our o-line stinks but Bulger can take 3 step drops and throw right? I have an idea lets run another draw play, come on start coaching already. Yes the injuries hurt but bad coaching hurts more!
    Just Fix It

  14. #14
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    Quote Originally Posted by Rammiser
    Also what is Baltimores excuse? They are missing 3 o-line starters and they are still winning and scoring.
    They're not exactly scoring. Their 17 point per game puts them in the bottom 3rd of the league. They're playing .500 football because of their stellar defense, not their offense. Had the Ravens had more health on their front line, maybe they would be scoring more and winning more.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  15. #15
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
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    Re: Some more finger pointing--Line related

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsanddodgers View Post
    No play calling will work if there is a lack of execution.
    This is pretty much the way I see it.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again, it's funny how fumbles, dropped passes, interceptions, penalties, sacks and a lack of healthy front line talent can make any playcalling look suspect.

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