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  1. #31
    ramsbruce's Avatar
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by talkstoangels61
    He also was responsible for our Superbowl loss then
    The Rams were responsible for the loss, not just Martz.

    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  2. #32
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    After last years 8-8 and not even coming close to the playoffs this year, I figured it was time for Martz to go. I just found out that Saints are no longer interested in Martz. I wonder why.

  3. #33
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by talkstoangels61
    but a guy drafts the likes of Crouch and Bellasari to then try to change their careers to a position that really they have never played for sometime and the other wasted draft picks
    I love how Martz gets all the blame for the bad picks, and no praise for the good picks.

    Every team makes bad draft picks, look at Denver this year they drafted Maurice Clarrett in the THIRD round. That was horrible. Look at the Browns drafts over the last few years, the Bengals took Akili Smith with the 3rd pick, the Steelers took Troy Edwards with the 13th pick, the Chargers took Ryan Leaf.

    The point is all teams make bad picks, we all know Martz made some bad picks, but acknowledge that he made some good ones also jeeze.
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  4. #34
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Sorry tta61, when did I call him a genius?

    I asked for a definition of the term. I'd like to know what would be considered success,genius and achievment by those who have forgotten what happened in the 90's.

    I still don't.

  5. #35
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by talkstoangels61
    He also was responsible for our Superbowl loss then
    Yes he was partially responsible, never denied it. I just don't think anyone can say he was an "idiot", "retard" or a "lousy coach".

  6. #36
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by tanus
    uh no, check your facts. the 2nd SB team had a completely rebuilt defense. but thanks for trying.
    I know what the facts are ! I would say that more than 70% was the same team I know who was gone and who was their O.K. what I was saying was I dont believe that Martz is a good or great head coach I think he's a great O.C. somtimes people can do 1 or 2 things well and some can do a lot more very well ... the RAMS where never the same after that last S.B. and as far as the defence being completely rebuilt they made it to the S.B. RIGHT !! so you might check your facts out ... It was just my opinion does not make right or wrong its just my opinion Things have not gone well since then ... I believe that it starts with leadership
    in all areas from the front office happy as best you can and keeping your players up and ready putting them in the right direction to win , I dont think he did that , Thats my opinion
    Last edited by OldRamsfan; -01-20-2006 at 02:05 PM.

  7. #37
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by OldRamsfan
    I know what the facts are ! I would say that more than 70% was the same team I know who was gone and who was their O.K. what I was saying was I dont believe that Martz is a good or great head coach I think he's a great O.C. somtimes people can do 1 or 2 well and some can do a lot more very well ... the RAMS where never the same after that last S.B. and as far as the defence being completely rebuilt they made it to the S.B. RIGHT !! so you might check your facts out ... It was just my opinion does not make right or wrong its just my opinion Thing have not gone well since then ... I believe that it starts with leadership
    in all areas from the front office to keeping your players up and ready putting them in the right direction to , I dont think he did that thats my opinion
    Have to agree with ORF on this. Leadership is huge. Unfortunately, the Rams have historically had issues with this. I hope our new coach not only has a vision for the team, but that our FO allows him to make the moves to get us back on top.
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

  8. #38
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by tanus
    uh no, check your facts. the 2nd SB team had a completely rebuilt defense. but thanks for trying.
    [YOU NEED TO LEARN TO EXPRESS YOUR OPINIONS WITHOUT MAKING PERSONAL ATTACKS - ATTACK THE POST, NOT THE POSTER - Av]You might want learn what "AV" said above here young rams fan ... "RESPECT"

  9. #39
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    I have always liked M.M as a O.C. No one is better in my mind , but it takes a lot more than knowing X and O's to be a H.C. in the NFL and those are the facts

  10. #40
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    I think the aspect of his personality that made his Off creative also hindered his committment to do the things that win games. Run the ball, clock management, stressing strong D and + turnover margains were not stressed under his guidance. Those are the fundimentals that win games. He'd be a good OC, and needs someone to tell him "No Mike, we aren't going to throw for 3 straight downs and punt and kill our defense." I hope the next coach comes in with strong leadership and stresses the strategies that win games.

  11. #41
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Check the facts. We won 6 games. Retard was fired. Retard is unemployed.
    So to answer the question of this thread, and make no mistake...this is not an attack on anyones intelligence (although if the shoe fits...), YES YOU FOLKS WHO HAVE DEFENDED MARTZ THE MORON FOR SO LONG....YOU WERE WRONG!!:clanram:

  12. #42
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Sorry tta61, when did I call him a genius?

    I asked for a definition of the term. I'd like to know what would be considered success,genius and achievment by those who have forgotten what happened in the 90's.

    I still don't.
    I answered most of this in my last post, go back and attempt to read and comprehend.

  13. #43
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    That was going really well until the "retard" part......

    Mike Martz and his offence were responsible for our Super Bowl win and our consequent years of winning, exciting Ram football. Whatever he inherited he helped to build in the first place certainly on the offensive side.

    Mediocrity is easily defined in an age of parity and its a failure to win more than you lose, a failure to stand head and shoulders above the rest of the pack and you cannot claim in either category that this has been the case for the last 5 years excepting this year where he only coached 5 games.

    As for dismantling the team, being successful in the age of the cap tends to do that for you. You cannot pay Grant Wistrom that kind of cash, Kevin Carter got all hollywood on us, Dexter McCleon wasn't a top notch corner, London Fletcher was Lovie's call, Todd Lyght was old, Keith Lyle's production fell off, Ernie Conwell got above market rate at the time ............do I really need to go on?

    Actually I do because I notice a picture of no.13 as your avatar. Kurt Warner was let go for reason's of production and no more. Look at what Kurt did over his last 10 games, come back with stats and tell me that he deserved to start over Marc Bulger.

    As far as I can tell your point of criticism revolves around his failure to 'maintain' the success of our SB win. The only way to do that I presume is to consistently win SB's and on that yardstick most of the coaches in the NFL could be considered a disgrace.

    It seems that he will never be forgiven by some for the manner in which we lost SB36, which to me smacks of the expectation of success and is more arrogant than he will ever be.

    You can criticise him and I do, for his iffy game management, his lack of offensive balance when the pressure was on, his hiring of a man as DC whose long term history didn't suggest success, and his refusal to recognise where the true balance of power lay in our organisation and accomodate it.

    But despite these shortcomings, which would be considered fatal in many other HC's he won more than he lost and took us to the playoffs regularly.

    Expectation must always be tempered by the realisation that this is damn tough league to win with all the variables that involves. Anything else just isn't reasonable.
    To answer you question about Bulger vs Warner...How about 2 MVP's and a Lombardi Trophy? Bulger has fine stats, but how many championship games has he led us to? How many superbowls? (Who cares about stats for 10 games?? By the way what was Martz' stats for his last 10?)

    And the standard, or expectation, is winning, improving and being competitive. Not 6 and 10. Not getting blown out of the playoffs in an embarrasing loss to falcons, not losing the home opener at home to niners in a blowout. No, not much credit in my opinion to Martz. More to Vermeil and the front office for building that Ram championship team. But you Martz supporters keep on dreaming.

  14. #44
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Here's a question.

    Is it possible to deposit an opinion on this board without demeaning someone's intelligence?

    I haven't had any of my queries answered as far as I'm aware. Certainly not by the poster who supposes that Mike Martz' record indicates that Martz is a moron.

    I say again, what is your definition of genius if you think MM's record indicates idiocy?

    Whilst I am very grateful to Kurt for the memory of that magical season and for his achievements with the Rams including the classy way he handled his demotion and subsequent departure. His record over his last 10 games was sufficient to question his position as number one. Bulger's performance over the next 8 games and the following season was enough to get him the nod.

    I invite you to compare Bulger and Warner's records since Kurts departure...............

    That question has not been answered, instead we are asked to consider Kurt's legacy which whilst impressive wasn't enough to inspire his teamates confidence.

    If the standard is winning, improving and being competitive as you stated then how can MM be a moron as he supplied those things over his tenure as HC?

    Nothing wrong with my comprehension as far as I am aware, I just happen to have a different opinion to you Rebel13.

  15. #45
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    The answer is very simple. He inherited an extremely talented team a championship team in case you have forgotten. How can you not recognize this?
    This is so easy it's sad.

    The St. Louis Rams with Mike Martz --- 66-35 (.653 win. %), 1 Super Bowl title, 2 NFC titles, 3 NFC West titles, 5 postseasons

    The St. Louis Rams without Mike Martz --- 26-49 (.347 win. %), 0 Super Bowl titles, 0 NFC titles, 0 NFC West titles, 0 Postseasons

    Ironically, I too think it was time for Martz to go. It became apparent that the morons running the ship could no longer work with him, so for his sake, I'm glad he is free to do what he wants elsewhere.

    However, to not recognize that Mike Martz is the absolute best thing to ever happen to St. Louis football is beyond idiocy.
    "I'm not going to hide my opinions. They're coming to you between 7000-4000 Angstroms for all the world to see. Oh yes, you will be enlightened."

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