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  1. #46
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Here's a question.

    Is it possible to deposit an opinion on this board without demeaning someone's intelligence?

    I haven't had any of my queries answered as far as I'm aware. Certainly not by the poster who supposes that Mike Martz' record indicates that Martz is a moron.

    I say again, what is your definition of genius if you think MM's record indicates idiocy?

    Whilst I am very grateful to Kurt for the memory of that magical season and for his achievements with the Rams including the classy way he handled his demotion and subsequent departure. His record over his last 10 games was sufficient to question his position as number one. Bulger's performance over the next 8 games and the following season was enough to get him the nod.

    I invite you to compare Bulger and Warner's records since Kurts departure...............

    That question has not been answered, instead we are asked to consider Kurt's legacy which whilst impressive wasn't enough to inspire his teamates confidence.

    If the standard is winning, improving and being competitive as you stated then how can MM be a moron as he supplied those things over his tenure as HC?

    Nothing wrong with my comprehension as far as I am aware, I just happen to have a different opinion to you Rebel13.
    Unfortunately, some people get so wrapped up in their opinions that everything is considered a personal attack. Not much you can do about that FP.

    1. Martz is not a moron. He has a great offensive mind. He also has an ego to match that. He is NOT a good field manager. Nor has he done a very good job of getting the team ready to play much of the time. He seems to lack a sense of urgency about almost everything. No fire in the gut.

    2. Kurt Vs Marc. Both are good QBs. Marc is a bit more mobile than Kurt. This has been helpful with the "leaks" we've had in our line. Both are very accurate on short and medium passes. I think Kurt has/had a better long game. Kurt also seemed to do a bit better job of leading his receivers on routes. Giving the receiver an opportunity to run away from the defender. Who would I take now? Probably Marc. Kurt has been so banged up working behind sub-par lines. Who would I take in their prime? Kurt.

    3. Winning and improving. Since the SB loss this team has been missing something. There's no swagger. No killer instinct. The last couple of seasons we've gone back to playing at or below the level of our competition. That I lay directly on the shoulders of the couching staff. Since Martz is the leader of the couching, he takes the blame. I see Martz as a "You're either for me, or against me" kind of guy. That does not build unity in the locker room. Martz is a great OC. But he needs someone above him to keep him on track. I think a lot of NFL teams see that too. Hence, not much interest in MM's services. If he doesn't get an offer with all the jobs available this year, that can't say much for how he is seen by other NFL minds.

    I'm less concerned withe seeing Martz go than who we get to replace him, and how much support they'll get from the FO. This team needs a real kick in the butt. I hope our new staff will provide that.

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

  2. #47
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy G. Biv
    This is so easy it's sad.

    The St. Louis Rams with Mike Martz --- 66-35 (.653 win. %), 1 Super Bowl title, 2 NFC titles, 3 NFC West titles, 5 postseasons

    The St. Louis Rams without Mike Martz --- 26-49 (.347 win. %), 0 Super Bowl titles, 0 NFC titles, 0 NFC West titles, 0 Postseasons

    Ironically, I too think it was time for Martz to go. It became apparent that the morons running the ship could no longer work with him, so for his sake, I'm glad he is free to do what he wants elsewhere.

    However, to not recognize that Mike Martz is the absolute best thing to ever happen to St. Louis football is beyond idiocy.

    Whats beyond idiocy is to think this FRANCHISE just began when it came to ST LOUIS!! This is CLAN RAM (not CLAN ST LOUIS) right? This FRANCHISE is one of the WINNINGEST FRANCHISES in the HISTORY of the NFL....they may not have as many league championships as others but they are among the top clubs in PLAYOFF appearances and WINS....PERIOD. Some PERSPECTIVE as a RAM FAN may be in order. This club DID exist (and THRIVE) for DECADES prior to its arrival in ST LOUIS and its hire of Mike Martz.

    BTW...those numbers you posted could also be attributed (largely) to the arrival of MARSHALL FAULK(1000/1000 season,MVP,Off. POYs,HOFer). If not for him...the Rams wouldnt have achieved many great things either. Faulk will go in to the HALL on his first ballot...Martz...better get BUSY elsewhere. Too bad NOBODY wants him. Gosh, I dont get it...nobody else wants HIM to be "the best thing to ever happen" to their franchise!?!?

  3. #48
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by Fargo Ram Fan
    Whats beyond idiocy is to think this FRANCHISE just began when it came to ST LOUIS!! This is CLAN RAM (not CLAN ST LOUIS) right? This FRANCHISE is one of the WINNINGEST FRANCHISES in the HISTORY of the NFL....they may not have as many league championships as others but they are among the top clubs in PLAYOFF appearances and WINS....PERIOD. Some PERSPECTIVE as a RAM FAN may be in order. This club DID exist (and THRIVE) for DECADES prior to its arrival in ST LOUIS and its hire of Mike Martz.

    BTW...those numbers you posted could also be attributed (largely) to the arrival of MARSHALL FAULK(1000/1000 season,MVP,Off. POYs,HOFer). If not for him...the Rams wouldnt have achieved many great things either. Faulk will go in to the HALL on his first ballot...Martz...better get BUSY elsewhere. Too bad NOBODY wants him. Gosh, I dont get it...nobody else wants HIM to be "the best thing to ever happen" to their franchise!?!?
    I'm sure that you will snap out of your Martz hating rage long enough to see that I said
    Mike Martz is the absolute best thing to ever happen to St. Louis football
    You see, my friend, St. Louis football dates back a long time as well. And in that time, nobody has brought about the kind of success that Martz brought to St. Louis football. I'd like to think you will understand that fact. But no, reading comprehension is probably too much to ask. As for Faulk being a great RB over the past few years, you bet he is. Good thing Martz helped bring him here.

    Now, feel free to go back to your hate mongering of Martz. Here, I'll help you out a little. Inflation is up 3%, I bet Martz is to blame.

    It really is funny when certain posters (we all know who they are) make every post a hate barf on Martz. The same words come out every single time. Words like "retard" "idiot" "moron". It's the same nonsense over and over again. Yet the funny part is, it's not Martz' football intelligence on trial, but that of the posters. And these same posters convict themselves with every post.
    Last edited by Roy G. Biv; -01-19-2006 at 04:13 PM.
    "I'm not going to hide my opinions. They're coming to you between 7000-4000 Angstroms for all the world to see. Oh yes, you will be enlightened."

  4. #49
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by OldRamsfan
    I know what the facts are ! I would say that more than 70% was the same team I know who was gone and who was their O.K. what I was saying was I dont believe that Martz is a good or great head coach I think he's a great O.C. somtimes people can do 1 or 2 things well and some can do a lot more very well ... the RAMS where never the same after that last S.B. and as far as the defence being completely rebuilt they made it to the S.B. RIGHT !! so you might check your facts out ... It was just my opinion does not make right or wrong its just my opinion Thing have not gone well since then ... I believe that it starts with leadership
    in all areas from the front office happy as best you can and keeping your players up and ready putting them in the right direction to win , I dont think he did that , Thats my opinion
    what exactly are you trying to say here? i need to check my facts? um, you just agreed with me that the defense was completely rebuilt yet i still need to check my facts. kinda odd, but ok.

    you said that he inherited a SB team, which he did, but was also a major part of constructing it. so give him that credit as it is due to him. my point is that the defense in 2000 was absolutely terrible. Martz completely overhauled the defense in 2001 and got back to the SB. if that isnt coaching then i really dont know what is. perhaps someone can enlighten me.

    i do agree with you that leadership is important. given the state of the relationship with the FO and Martz, that answers that question. as far as the players loving and respecting martz, there has been numerous quotes from players saying so.

  5. #50
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    I don't think you were wrong, Jason. He was a good coach. Coaching is pretty much a push these days when comparisons are made. Fans like to think it means more than it really does. Gives them someone to point fingers at when things don't meet their expectations.

    I wonder what will happen, with the Martz hating Warner loving ingrates, now that Martz is gone?

    How soon will those types be hating on the new coach?




  6. #51
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by ferter
    I wonder what will happen, with the Martz hating Warner loving ingrates, now that Martz is gone?
    Interesting question. The Martz hating (and there is a difference between hate and criticism...for this discussion I'm talking about the hate) began after Warner got benched. Some will say they hated Martz all along, but really it was over the Warner benching and subsequent dismissal......surely most would agree to this timeline. And now that the Warnerites/Anti-Martzites have hooked their white whale, where does the hate turn?

    I'd love to say it goes away and these people start over fresh and new. However, the more cynical side of me thinks something new will spring up to foster their hate. My first guess is Stephen Jackson. He is the replacement for Marshall Faulk and IMHO, the biggest bulls-eye for those that enjoy the more bile-laden aspects of fandom.

    But that's just my opinion.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  7. #52
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    For the most part I agree Fert. I think that the ones the really badger Martz or anyone will probally be as harsh on Linehan if things go amiss. I guess someone always needs to shoulder the blame. I will miss Martz, but in the same breath I am excited about the change.

  8. #53
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Here's a question.

    Is it possible to deposit an opinion on this board without demeaning someone's intelligence?

    I haven't had any of my queries answered as far as I'm aware. Certainly not by the poster who supposes that Mike Martz' record indicates that Martz is a moron.

    I say again, what is your definition of genius if you think MM's record indicates idiocy?

    Whilst I am very grateful to Kurt for the memory of that magical season and for his achievements with the Rams including the classy way he handled his demotion and subsequent departure. His record over his last 10 games was sufficient to question his position as number one. Bulger's performance over the next 8 games and the following season was enough to get him the nod.

    I invite you to compare Bulger and Warner's records since Kurts departure...............

    That question has not been answered, instead we are asked to consider Kurt's legacy which whilst impressive wasn't enough to inspire his teamates confidence.

    If the standard is winning, improving and being competitive as you stated then how can MM be a moron as he supplied those things over his tenure as HC?

    Nothing wrong with my comprehension as far as I am aware, I just happen to have a different opinion to you Rebel13.
    I agree with you Pang!

    It seems that a few around here are serious candidates for positions of leadership on Ray Nagin's re-election team.

    It is tough to stay positive reading all this lunacy and the confederacy of dunces membership must be adding new members daily from the football pros here on this board.

    It will be another long season for us as fans if we do not demand professional performance and higher standards from the FO.

    I am not too certain that the cand. from Miami is a great choice for our needs.

    Martz may have needed to go but so do most members of our front office.

    Does it not bother anyone here, that our FO ranks only and possibly above the Saints disaster team?

    Benson and Georgia. What a lovely pair, I wonder which owner is the bigger joke of the NFL.

    Speaking of mediocrity our FO performs far under the NFL average for FO success whatever that is, because as a fan for a long time, I can honestly say that I never have heard any of my RAMS brethern state how excited they were on the brilliant moves and strategies provided by Georgia, et al.

    Why is reality a difficult concept here and for most of our fellow peers worldwide?
    Socrates: Surf to live! and Live to Surf!

  9. #54
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    Interesting question. The Martz hating (and there is a difference between hate and criticism...for this discussion I'm talking about the hate) began after Warner got benched. Some will say they hated Martz all along, but really it was over the Warner benching and subsequent dismissal......surely most would agree to this timeline. And now that the Warnerites/Anti-Martzites have hooked their white whale, where does the hate turn?

    I'd love to say it goes away and these people start over fresh and new. However, the more cynical side of me thinks something new will spring up to foster their hate. My first guess is Stephen Jackson. He is the replacement for Marshall Faulk and IMHO, the biggest bulls-eye for those that enjoy the more bile-laden aspects of fandom.

    But that's just my opinion.
    HUbison,

    You must of been a carpenter before you went all pro in the white collar world.

    I was just surmizing that same relationships btwn MM and KW and the level of hatred associated with that saga.

    Great posts Ferter and HUb!


    Reality bites:tongue:
    Socrates: Surf to live! and Live to Surf!

  10. #55
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    Interesting question. The Martz hating (and there is a difference between hate and criticism...for this discussion I'm talking about the hate) began after Warner got benched. Some will say they hated Martz all along, but really it was over the Warner benching and subsequent dismissal......surely most would agree to this timeline. And now that the Warnerites/Anti-Martzites have hooked their white whale, where does the hate turn?

    I'd love to say it goes away and these people start over fresh and new. However, the more cynical side of me thinks something new will spring up to foster their hate. My first guess is Stephen Jackson. He is the replacement for Marshall Faulk and IMHO, the biggest bulls-eye for those that enjoy the more bile-laden aspects of fandom.

    But that's just my opinion.
    You are correct. His treatment of our qb opened my eyes to the fact that this guy had a strange agenda. It's a shame it took our FO so long to figure it out and send him down the road. It's a shame so many posters here never figured out that there was something "cookoo" with Martz. I hope you can see it now as he stands unemployed willing to sweep floors for any NFL team that will take him. I think that other teams look at Martz the way they look at TO... A cancer that they prefer to live without.
    Hate is a very strong word. I prefer "disgust" with the retard. I look forward to a competent coach and getting things going back in the right direction. If he proves incompetent, I will prefer to see him jettisoned as well.

  11. #56
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by RamWraith
    For the most part I agree Fert. I think that the ones the really badger Martz or anyone will probally be as harsh on Linehan if things go amiss. I guess someone always needs to shoulder the blame. I will miss Martz, but in the same breath I am excited about the change.
    What would you expect? Should I love and respect him if things go amiss? Or would it be common sense to get rid of your leader if things go amiss? Would you not get rid of your CEO if you company's earnings go amiss? What a ridiculous concept! Wake up, in sports, if things go "amiss" it usually indicates a change needs to be made, wouldn't you agree?

  12. #57
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by Fargo Ram Fan
    Whats beyond idiocy is to think this FRANCHISE just began when it came to ST LOUIS!! This is CLAN RAM (not CLAN ST LOUIS) right? This FRANCHISE is one of the WINNINGEST FRANCHISES in the HISTORY of the NFL....they may not have as many league championships as others but they are among the top clubs in PLAYOFF appearances and WINS....PERIOD. Some PERSPECTIVE as a RAM FAN may be in order. This club DID exist (and THRIVE) for DECADES prior to its arrival in ST LOUIS and its hire of Mike Martz.

    BTW...those numbers you posted could also be attributed (largely) to the arrival of MARSHALL FAULK(1000/1000 season,MVP,Off. POYs,HOFer). If not for him...the Rams wouldnt have achieved many great things either. Faulk will go in to the HALL on his first ballot...Martz...better get BUSY elsewhere. Too bad NOBODY wants him. Gosh, I dont get it...nobody else wants HIM to be "the best thing to ever happen" to their franchise!?!?
    Good post. Those numbers could also be attributed to the arrival of KW, could they not? Yes Rainman had something to do with it, but not as the man in charge. Only as the OC. As a headcoach, he was a cancer. Witness that he is now unemployed!

  13. #58
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy G. Biv
    I'm sure that you will snap out of your Martz hating rage long enough to see that I said You see, my friend, St. Louis football dates back a long time as well. And in that time, nobody has brought about the kind of success that Martz brought to St. Louis football. I'd like to think you will understand that fact. But no, reading comprehension is probably too much to ask. As for Faulk being a great RB over the past few years, you bet he is. Good thing Martz helped bring him here.

    Now, feel free to go back to your hate mongering of Martz. Here, I'll help you out a little. Inflation is up 3%, I bet Martz is to blame.

    It really is funny when certain posters (we all know who they are) make every post a hate barf on Martz. The same words come out every single time. Words like "retard" "idiot" "moron". It's the same nonsense over and over again. Yet the funny part is, it's not Martz' football intelligence on trial, but that of the posters. And these same posters convict themselves with every post.
    No Martz is not to blame for inflation, but he is to blame for ruining this ram team. That's why they kicked him to the curb. That is also why he is reading "want ads" on a daily basis.

  14. #59
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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by rebel13
    Those numbers could also be attributed to the arrival of KW, could they not?

    Marshall Faulk was the biggest key to the 99 Rams. Trent Green was putting up extraordinary numbers in the pre season before he got cheapshotted by Harrison. KW did a great job and was spectacular, I don't see much if any drop off to Trent Green if he got to play in 99.
    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    The backhanded compliments about Austin Davis are amusing.

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    Re: Are some of us wrong??

    Quote Originally Posted by rebel13
    Good post. Those numbers could also be attributed to the arrival of KW, could they not? Yes Rainman had something to do with it, but not as the man in charge. Only as the OC. As a headcoach, he was a cancer. Witness that he is now unemployed!
    LMAO, thanks for the laugh!

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