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Thread: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

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    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    And so, the sadness descends...

    Nobody is happy with a 3-6 record. Nobody should be happy with ah 3-6 record. That said, some of you are taking the negativity to levels that indicate that you are, and have been, kidding yourselves.

    Let me count the ways...

    If you think that the youngest team in the NFL isn't likely to make a lot of mistakes and have growing pains, you're kidding yourself.

    If you think that rookies, even those taken in the top 10 picks, will necessarily adjust to the NFL and produce immediately in their first year, you're kidding yourself.

    If you think that a team that has only three players who have been on club for more than three years, will always play as a cohesive unit, you're kidding yourself.

    If you think the loss of the starting QB, particuarly when the backup is not an "upside" player, won't turn several likely wins into losses, you're kidding yourself.

    But, here's the good news...

    If you think that this CAN'T turn around within a year, you're kidding yourself.

    Here's the bottom line... the Rams have been bad for a decades, so its easy to fall into "we have a black cloud over the franchise" mindset. However, unless you believe in "curses," the failings of the Rams over most of the last 10 years have absolutely nothing to do with the current failings.

    Let me repeat that: the failings of the Rams over most of the last 10 years have nothing to do with the current failings.

    The Rams have the opportunity to continue to bulid their talent base this year, but let me be blunt about this:

    Not every player the Rams take will hit the ground running.
    Not every player the Rams take will be as good as we hope.
    Not every player the Rams take will succeed at all.

    So there will be immediate hits (Quinn, Brockers, Jenkins, Givens, Zuerlein, Ogletree, Stacy), there will be misses (Salas, Pead, Watson) and there will be players who we'll have to "wait and see" if they will pan out (Quick, Austin). That's the way it goes (to varying degrees) with EVERY team.

    I was thinking of ending this by imploring Rams fans to be patient but, in the end, that's a nonsensical thing to ask for.

    If you're a Rams fan (or a fan of any team), you will wait (patiently or not). You have no choice. That's what fans do.

    But here is a thought... if you're not patient, and you worry about every bump in the road, the journey is going to seem very long and tedious.
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    I'm definitely not kidding myself. Just really wish BradfOrd didn't get injured. That closed the book for us, along with the last 2 games.

    I'm happy in most ways the team is being run. But I wish fisher wasnt so stubborn sometimes. And didn't take a long time to make changes. I think we should give Austin Davis a chance, really, What do we have to lose?

    Edit: I do agree that the negativity is way too high. I mean, sheesh, people, we lost our starting qb. Only if we didn't, with Zac STacy and Bradford. No question we would be 5-4 right now. Eeking out last week and this week. And the mood would be different. But stop being so damn negative when we don't have a QB for God sakes.

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    Last edited by RuffRams; -11-04-2013 at 11:46 AM.


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    fearsome foursome is offline Registered User
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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    There is no doubt that things are turning around in a positive way. However, 10 years is a long time to wait. The most ardent Ram fan I ever met was best friends with the old equipment manager from LA and he never wavered in his belief that the Rams were about to turn the corner. He told me that the Rams had plenty of talent and should do well next year. That was 1998, the year he died. My hope is that this rebuilding period will set us up for long term success. In my lifetime.

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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    Some of you are just kidding yourselves.-pfawg.jpg

    We will get it turned around eventually. I like that we are still in these games that we are losing. Losing isn't always a bad thing especially when if you win your draft spot gets worse.
    Last edited by sjacksonrules; -11-04-2013 at 01:26 PM.

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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    Nice post AV. You are right to say this can be corrected within a year. I can only speak for myself when I say that the expectations going into this year were very high and having us lose games we ought to win is painful, as you so eloquently state. It's just hard given our history of losing to swallow another lost season, particularly given our hopes coming into it. I know this too shall pass, perhaps we need to catch some lucky breaks that set us up to win a game that we are not expecting to win. A perfect example will be next Sunday in Indy. I remain a loyal Rams fan and continue to hope for the best, I'm just tired of preparing for the worst.

    Incidentally, in your thread a few weeks back you asked for which player will spark us to better games. I defer to you and others who selected Zac Stacy. He's doing a great job, I just hope we don't have another Jewerl Thomas or Cleveland Gary syndrome going on. He does look like the real deal. BTW, my pick in that thread was Tavon Austin, maybe next year.

    Go Rams!

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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    Excellent reality check Av!


    PS: I keep forgetting - is the short name 'Av' or, 'AV'?

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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    Good post Av

    Most fans just want to win and win now. The truth hurts and there is no guarantees in life and in football. If you like the plan of going young and building through the draft, then as a fan this is a good time to be a Rams fan. If you want to win now at any cost, this is going to be a tough process for some fans.

    The path to the SB for this FO is going to be a slow and steady rise and hopefully we will be able to sustain what we have built for years. But again there are no guarantees in life and in football. My older brother and I have been Rams fans for decades and he just told me he can't even watch the games he can't take it anymore. I told him there comes a time if you can't find something positive or any enjoyment when you watch the games, win or lose what the point of being a fan. If all that matter is winning just read the paper the following day. Maybe it's time for him to let it go and just enjoy his weekends.

    Yesterday was another loss, but in that loss a star was born.

    By Christopher Harris | ESPN.com

    It seems pretty funny to be leading our weekly review piece with a St. Louis Rams running back, considering the Rams hadn't rushed for a single touchdown entering Week 9. But that stat is now defunct, and frankly it wouldn't matter if it wasn't. That's how good Zac Stacy looks at the moment.

    It's funny, when the Rams took Stacy in the fifth round of April's draft, he instantly shot to the top of the sleeper rolls, despite the fact that hardly anyone had seen him play at Vanderbilt. That was because the St. Louis RB depth chart was unimpressive in the post-Steven Jackson era. Daryl Richardson? Isaiah Pead? Yuck. Yet Stacy was crummy in the preseason, and by Week 2 was a healthy scratch. Heck, fellow rookie Benny Cunningham was playing ahead of him. But no more.


    Scott Rovak
    USA TODAY SportsZac

    Stacy became just the second player to rush for 100-plus yards in consecutive games this season.

    Five weeks ago on the Fantasy Underground podcast, my partner Field Yates nominated Stacy as the player who'd come from nowhere to be ownable in all leagues. What a call! Almost immediately, Stacy began laying down game film that should be the envy of RBs around the world. Squat, heavy and powerful, and most important blessed with ridiculous balance, Stacy is in the process of dominating the NFL. He carried it 26 times for 134 yards against the Seattle Seahawks last Monday, and Sunday he chopped up the Tennessee Titans to the tune of 33 touches for 178 yards and two TDs. The performance was as good as the numbers. Stacy isn't a game-breaker, and he's not the beneficiary of great blocking. He's just a thumping pinball with great power and even greater want-to.

    I know, it's Kellen Clemens, and he just fumbled away this week's game. I know the Rams' season is cooked. But Stacy has earned every-week starter status, and as some heavily publicized RBs continue to sputter, it's fair to wonder if he'll soon be inside his positional top 10. The Alfred Morris comparisons are starting to look mighty apt.
    And that's why I have hope!

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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    1) I think for many of us here, we see that many other teams have made the turnover quickly, and the Rams havent reached that stage as of yet.

    I also understand that rookies can take time to develop. That being said, to draft a rookie, trade up for that rookie, lose a draft pick for that rookie, and have no immediate return for that rookie is a poor return of investment given that all Im reading is it takes time for rookies to develop.

    If the mindset of the Braintrust was to do the aformentioned with the intent on their investment to pay divideds 2, 3, 4 years from now, then that seems like mismangement.

    I would love see an NFL front office to come out and tell the media and its fan base

    "...Today we invested in the future of this team. We traded away our 2nd round pick to move up a few spots in the 1st round, because we know that within 3-4 years, this player will help us out tremendously. We expect no impact this year, and you, our fans shouldnt either. Just know, that we know what we are doing, and what is best for this team.
    We cannot be more pleased that we will have an all-world player with us in 3ish years. We ask for your patience and continuing monetary support to pay for these players. Thank you..."

    2)"... So there will be immediate hits (Quinn, Brockers, Jenkins, Givens, Zuerlein, Ogletree, Stacy), there will be misses (Salas, Pead, Watson) and there will be players who we'll have to "wait and see" if they will pan out (Quick, Austin). That's the way it goes (to varying degrees) with EVERY team...."

    I do appreciate these players that have worked out for us. I know in drafting it's a lot like gambling and you will miss more than hit. But we still are where we were all these years. We havent drafted a true difference maker to turn the team around (dunno maybe its coaching?)
    Quinn is so far is the best of the bunch-- even more so than CLong. Hopefully he will get the national recognition he deserves.
    Last edited by punahou; -11-04-2013 at 02:05 PM.
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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    Stacy became just the second player to rush for 100-plus yards in consecutive games this season.
    Did anybody else know this? I sure didn't realize it.

    Not LeSean McCoy
    Not Marshawn Lynch
    Not Jamaal Charles
    Not Adrian Peterson
    Not Alfred Morris
    Not Frank Gore
    Not Arian Foster
    Not Matt Forte
    Not Deangelo Williams
    Not Reggie Bush

    But Zac Stacy.
    rammiser, punahou and sosa39rams like this.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    I also understand that rookies can take time to develop. That being said, to draft a rookie, trade up for that rookie, lose a draft pick for that rookie, and have no immediate return for that rookie is a poor return of investment given that all Im reading is it takes time for rookies to develop.
    I buy two blue chip stocks. One does well, one stays flat over a short period of time. But I also buy a lessor known stock. Symbol ZAC and that lessor know stock out performs the blue chips like Eddie Lacey that I could have bought at a higher price but past.

    Lets look at the whole portfolio not just the under-performing ones. Show me a team that hits on every pick.

    Bottom line is IF, IF ZAC became a HOF player and Tavon was just OK does it really matter? As long as you hit and find special players. That's all that counts in the end not what the cost to acquirer. Again we don't know what we have yet in these young players, one way or the other.

    If things would have worked out like a lot of us fans wanted and we drafted Justin Blackmon we would have been screwed. Like I said there is no guarantees.
    Last edited by Rambos; -11-04-2013 at 02:34 PM.
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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I buy two blue chip stocks. One does well, one stays flat over a short period of time. But I also buy a lessor known stock. Symbol ZAC and that lessor know stock out performs the blue chips like Eddie Lacey that I could have bought at a higher price but past.

    Lets look at the whole portfolio not just the under-performing ones. Show me a team that hits on every pick.

    Bottom line is IF, IF ZAC became a HOF player and Tavon was just OK does it really matter? As long as you hit and find special players. That's all that counts in the end not what the cost to acquirer. Again we don't know what we have yet in these young players, one way or the other.

    If things would have worked out like a lot of us fans wanted and we drafted Justin Blackmon we would have been screwed. Like I said there is no guarantees.
    You are right. Though in the NFL its great when you can find a gem in the 5th round.
    But when you strike out and give up something to get something in the 1st round-- I feel that's a faux pas?
    It's like other picks we have made that were too high for their placement-- if we drafted these guys later, then that's fine. However to draft certain players so high is rough for the franchise.

    Teams that have been successful for a long time tend to draft well. They hit more than miss, which is why they stay successful. (or perhaps they have coaches who can coach?)

    Some teams that come to mind are the Ravens, Steelers, and Patriots. They draft and forcefeed players their doctrine so players believe in the system and play up to or beyond their level. That hasnt been the case here in St Louis. Yes we have Long, Quinn, Jenkins, etc.... but has that helped us to be a winner? We have had them for years and when it really boils down, we are the same for some reason.

    For whatever it's worth we need safety help and we couldve have the fish that got away in Eric Reid as an example. We could have had Kookie Alonso (whatever his name is) in rd 2 to possibly play where Dunbar is. But in the end we have who we have..... disappointing IMO.

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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by punahou View Post
    But when you strike out and give up something to get something in the 1st round-- I feel that's a faux pas?
    We didn't strike out on Austin. Perhaps the count is 0-1, but we can still hit a home run.

    It's like other picks we have made that were too high for their placement-- if we drafted these guys later, then that's fine. However to draft certain players so high is rough for the franchise.
    Again, that happens to every team. Plus, the Rams have had plenty of players who have outperformed their draft placement.

    For whatever it's worth we need safety help and we couldve have the fish that got away in Eric Reid as an example. We could have had Kookie Alonso (whatever his name is) in rd 2 to possibly play where Dunbar is. But in the end we have who we have..... disappointing IMO.
    I'll tell you what that's worth: nothing. Every team can play the "we could have had" game. Its meaningless (particularly when you're comparing how players are faring after 9 games).

    To say that you're disappointed with who we have is odd. Ogletree is having a great rookie year. McDonald was showing promise before he was hurt. And Austin has shown flashes - give him time.

    I feel like you were trying to agree with me on some level, but in the end just proved my points about short-sighted impatience.

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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by punahou View Post
    You are right. Though in the NFL its great when you can find a gem in the 5th round.
    But when you strike out and give up something to get something in the 1st round-- I feel that's a faux pas?
    It's like other picks we have made that were too high for their placement-- if we drafted these guys later, then that's fine. However to draft certain players so high is rough for the franchise.

    Teams that have been successful for a long time tend to draft well. They hit more than miss, which is why they stay successful. (or perhaps they have coaches who can coach?)

    Some teams that come to mind are the Ravens, Steelers, and Patriots. They draft and forcefeed players their doctrine so players believe in the system and play up to or beyond their level. That hasnt been the case here in St Louis. Yes we have Long, Quinn, Jenkins, etc.... but has that helped us to be a winner? We have had them for years and when it really boils down, we are the same for some reason.

    For whatever it's worth we need safety help and we couldve have the fish that got away in Eric Reid as an example. We could have had Kookie Alonso (whatever his name is) in rd 2 to possibly play where Dunbar is. But in the end we have who we have..... disappointing IMO.
    To be sure the Rams have not drafted all that well for a good many years. That said, we have not had the stability of an involved competitive owner until very recently, and now (Stan) having chosen his guys, those “guys” are only in their second season. Comparing the Ram with three high echelon teams whose owners have proven their ability to build and maintain solid organizations over a quite a few years, is premature at this point.

    Fisher wants to win. It appears winning consistently will take some time. Surely Jeff voiced his concerns to Stan from the get go. I suggest we be patient and see if we are having this same conversation at the end of the 2014 season. Patience you say? PATIENCE?!!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? No, I am not, and rest assured I am as impatient and dissatisfied as many – if not all. One of the reasons I rarely post on gamedays after a loss is my extreme frustration. I hate losing! Don’t we all? Agreed, we need to strengthen our secondary, and I believe we will. Jeff knows a thing or two in that particular area ..
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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by punahou View Post
    You are right. Though in the NFL its great when you can find a gem in the 5th round.
    But when you strike out and give up something to get something in the 1st round-- I feel that's a faux pas?
    It's like other picks we have made that were too high for their placement-- if we drafted these guys later, then that's fine. However to draft certain players so high is rough for the franchise.

    Teams that have been successful for a long time tend to draft well. They hit more than miss, which is why they stay successful. (or perhaps they have coaches who can coach?)

    Some teams that come to mind are the Ravens, Steelers, and Patriots. They draft and forcefeed players their doctrine so players believe in the system and play up to or beyond their level. That hasnt been the case here in St Louis. Yes we have Long, Quinn, Jenkins, etc.... but has that helped us to be a winner? We have had them for years and when it really boils down, we are the same for some reason.

    For whatever it's worth we need safety help and we couldve have the fish that got away in Eric Reid as an example. We could have had Kookie Alonso (whatever his name is) in rd 2 to possibly play where Dunbar is. But in the end we have who we have..... disappointing IMO.
    For whatever reason you are not looking at this FO and new owner as a completely different regime. It's not very often a major sports team changes ownership. The logo is the same but the people running are all new. Not sure why you want to lump them in with the old owner.

    Back to the draft picks that you think are misses and that's fine. What about the moves that created the extra draft picks? Do you you factor that in? We could have stayed pat and IF Trent Richardson was on the board, he was the safe pick. Again not sure what any young player is but so far Zac looks better then Trent. The direction the FO took created more picks and in the end we may have found a back just as good as Richardson and other players as well.

    The bottom line for me is it's to soon to pass judgement on the young players and the FO. Lets at least get all the picks from the RG3 trade on the team. In time we will see if this FO got it right or wrong.
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    Re: Some of you are just kidding yourselves.

    A lot of sensible comments here that stress patience and time. New owner, new FO, New coaching staff, many youngsters on the team and frankly Rams seem to be doing better in whom they select. It is never going to be a Homerun with each selection.

    On the flipside, even with all of that said, I do not see this it as impatience or short sightedness for the fan that wants a winner today. Rams have had plenty losing seasons since 1990 so I get where that voice is coming from. And now we have another losing season with the distinct possibility of double digit losses again. It surely is close to being our time to end the losing and have a winning tradition again. And I believe the owner and FO need to feel and try to understand why and where those without patience are coming from.
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