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  1. #1
    39thebeast's Avatar
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    Something interesting on Barron

    this was posted by galaxy on the **edited** on another message board.

    He has some good points on Barron and goes with the numbers. He also has some very confusing stuff that I had no clue what he was talking about. In all it makes allot of sense.


    One of the continuing disagreements on the forum is Alex Barron. I've read posts ranging from “Just cut the bum” to “He is solid” (all from respectable posters, not the loons).

    So I set about looking at the numbers, at least as much as we can for a lineman.

    The following table are the RT listed in the depth chart on the Washington Post. I use the post because it has lineman stats. I know some of the stats for given players were generated on other teams last year, and even at other positions, such is the limitation of time. Two players show 2006 numbers as they were injured, but have a strong amount of history.

    • Langston Walker Bills GS 16 Sacks: 2.25 Yards 17.75 Pen 3 Yards: 30 Pick: 53
      Willie Anderson (2006) Bengals GS 16 Sacks: 3 Yards 15 Pen 4 Yards: 25 Pick: 10
      Alex Barron Rams GS 16 Sacks: 3.5 Yards 28.5 Pen 13 Yards: 81 Pick: 19 Eric Winston Texans GS 16 Sacks: 3.5 Yards 24.5 Pen 7 Yards: 35 Pick: 66
      Sean Locklear Seahawks GS 16 Sacks: 4 Yards 16 Pen 2 Yards: 15 Pick: 84
      Marc Colombo Cowboys GS 16 Sacks: 4 Yards 19 Pen 10 Yards: 50 Pick: 29
      Kevin Shaffer Browns GS 16 Sacks: 4 Yards 16 Pen 4 Yards: 25 Pick: 245
      Kareem McKenzie Giants GS 16 Sacks: 4 Yards 29 Pen 2 Yards: 15 Pick: 79
      Jon Stinchcomb Saints GS 16 Sacks: 5 Yards 39 Pen 4 Yards: 20 Pick: 37
      Jon Runyan Eagles GS 16 Sacks: 5.5 Yards 13.5 Pen 0 Yards: 0 Pick: 109
      Mark Tauscher Packers GS 16 Sacks: 6 Yards 31.5 Pen 5 Yards: 40 Pick: 224
      Erik Pears Broncos GS 16 Sacks: 6.5 Yards 39 Pen 5 Yards: 35 Pick: N/A
      Ryan Cook Vikings GS 16 Sacks: 7 Yards 37 Pen 5 Yards: 38 Pick: 51
      Jeremy Trueblood Buccs GS 16 Sacks: 7.5 Yards 55.5 Pen 8 Yards: 55 Pick: 59
      Joe Staley ***** GS 16 Sacks: 9 Yards 55 Pen 4 Yards: 25 Pick: 28
      Willie Colon Steelers GS 16 Sacks: 12.25 Yards 86.75 Pen 7 Yards: 45 Pick: 131
      Jon Jansen (2006) Redskins GS 15 Sacks: 4 Yards 23 Pen 8 Yards: 50 Pick: 38
      David Stewart Titans GS 15 Sacks: 5 Yards 34.5 Pen 2 Yards: 20 Pick: 113
      Nick Kaczur Patriots GS 15 Sacks: 6.5 Yards 31.5 Pen 2 Yards: 10 Pick: 100
      Tony Pashos Jaguars GS 15 Sacks: 7.5 Yards 37 Pen 6 Yards: 42 Pick: 173
      Marshal Yanda Ravens GS 12 Sacks: 4 Yards 31 Pen 5 Yards: 35 Pick: 86
      Levi Brown Cardinals GS 11 Sacks: 8 Yards 46.5 Pen 5 Yards: 25 Pick: 5
      Ryan Diem Colts GS 10 Sacks: 2 Yards 8 Pen 7 Yards: 45 Pick: 118
      Jeremy Bridges Panthers GS 10 Sacks: 4 Yards 24 Pen 3 Yards: 15 Pick: 185
      Cornell Green Raiders GS 10 Sacks: 7 Yards 41 Pen 8 Yards: 40 Pick: N/A
      Damien Woody Jets GS 8 Sacks: 1 Yards 12 Pen 5 Yards: 25 Pick: 17
      Todd Weiner Falcons GS 7 Sacks: 2.5 Yards 8.5 Pen 5 Yards: 35 Pick: 49
      Jeromey Clary Chargers GS 6 Sacks: 2 Yards 1 Pen 5 Yards: 35 Pick: 187
      John St. Clair Bears GS 5 Sacks: 1 Yards 10 Pen 3 Yards: 15 Pick: 96
      Will Svitek Chiefs GS 4 Sacks: 7 Yards 43 Pen 3 Yards: 15 Pick: 187
      Jonathan Scott Lions GS 2 Sacks: 2 Yards 12 Pen 2 Yards: 15 Pick: 141
      Julius Wilson Dolphins GS 0 Sacks: 0 Yards 0 Pen 0 Yards: 0 Pick: N/A


    Sorry for the display.. Never can get this site to use the code I know (which isn't much). Ok, the initial list is sorted by starts and then sacks allowed.

    Clearly, Barron did a pretty good job of not surrendering sacks last year. But one of his biggest knocks is penalties. There is truth there. Barron was the most penalized of the players on the list, for the most yards (and it wasn't even close). Pace averages 1 penalty every other game for his career, Barron averages 1 every single game.

    So how do you equate sacks to penalties? If you combine sack yards & penalty yards, Barron is 3rd worst on the list, having been responsible for 109.5 yards in negative progress last year.

    But it is also true a penalty is not as bad as a sack, as there is no loss of down, no hit on the QB, and no chance of a fumble. So I redid the list giving sack yardage double weight (sacks yards x 2 + penalty yards)*.66 to get a weighted yards, then divided that by games started to get a "negative yards per game" for each player. I then snipped it at 10 starts or more to avoid some funky anamolies:

    • Jon Runyan Eagles 1.1
      Sean Locklear Seahawks 1.9
      Willie Anderson (2006) Bengals 2.3
      Kevin Shaffer Browns 2.4
      Langston Walker Bills 2.7
      Kareem McKenzie Giants 3.0
      Nick Kaczur Patriots 3.2
      Eric Winston Texans 3.5
      Marc Colombo Cowboys 3.6
      David Stewart Titans 3.9
      Ryan Diem Colts 4.0
      Jon Stinchcomb Saints 4.0
      Jeremy Bridges Panthers 4.2
      Jon Jansen (2006) Redskins 4.2
      Mark Tauscher Packers 4.2
      Ryan Cook Vikings 4.6
      Erik Pears Broncos 4.7
      Tony Pashos Jaguars 5.1
      Marshal Yanda Ravens 5.3
      Joe Staley ***** 5.6
      Alex Barron Rams 5.7
      Jeremy Trueblood Buccs 6.8
      Levi Brown Cardinals 7.1
      Cornell Green Raiders 8.1
      Willie Colon Steelers 9.0


    21st of 25 guys.. Not too inspiring

    How about a different spin.. A sack or a penalty can be a drive killer. So this time the total sacks + penalties divided by games started:

    • Langston Walker Bills 0.33
      Jon Runyan Eagles 0.34
      Sean Locklear Seahawks 0.38
      Kareem McKenzie Giants 0.38
      Willie Anderson (2006) Bengals 0.44
      David Stewart Titans 0.47
      Kevin Shaffer Browns 0.5
      Jon Stinchcomb Saints 0.56
      Nick Kaczur Patriots 0.57
      Eric Winston Texans 0.66
      Mark Tauscher Packers 0.69
      Jeremy Bridges Panthers 0.7
      Erik Pears Broncos 0.72
      Ryan Cook Vikings 0.75
      Marshal Yanda Ravens 0.75
      Jon Jansen (2006) Redskins 0.8
      Joe Staley ***** 0.81
      Marc Colombo Cowboys 0.88
      Ryan Diem Colts 0.9
      Tony Pashos Jaguars 0.9
      Jeremy Trueblood Buccs 0.97
      Alex Barron Rams 1.03
      Levi Brown Cardinals 1.18
      Willie Colon Steelers 1.2
      Cornell Green Raiders 1.5


    21st again out of 25.

    Interesting note: Pace who many consider a HOF candidate for his career comes out at 5.5 negative yards per game (vs Barrons 5.7) and .89 total sacks+penalties per game (vs Barrons 1.03)

    Up until now this has been all pass & penalty, but how about rushing? The best we can do is look at yards per carry by direction, while understanding cutbacks occur, and an OT isn't the sole blocker.

    In 2007, Barron played almost entirely at LT. Jackson's YPC? Left Sideline 2.2, Left 2.7, Middle 4.3, Right 6.6, Right Sidline 4.1

    In 2006 Barron was a RT all year. Jackson's YPC? Left Sideline 2.5, Left 4.4, Middle 5.5, Right 3.4, Right Sidline 4.8

    Looking at the two years, the difference in YPC when Barron played on the given side:
    Left Sideline -0.3 , Left -1.7, Right -3.2, Right Sidline +0.7

    That's a bit too much coincidence to be coincidence.

    I've been a fan of Barron (more of the he is a solid RT), but given the numbers I might need to do more thinking.
    Last edited by RamWraith; -03-25-2008 at 07:43 AM.


  2. #2
    Ramblin` Ram's Avatar
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    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    i dont think Barron will be cut but i cant see him signing a second contract with us at this point!

  3. #3
    Mooselini Guest

    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    He does a good job, just causing penalties is a slight issue.

  4. #4
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    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    giving away penalties is a drive killer tho!

  5. #5
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    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    A nice, thoughtful post by that dude. I don't think anyone is claiming that Barron has no talent or isn't good, but this analysis shows that relative to his peers he under performs. The thing I wonder is how much of this is a motivational issue and how much of it is the fact that he is just not as talented as people hoped coming into the draft. I hope we draft a tackle high this year and then see how he responds to the pressure.

  6. #6
    tomahawk247's Avatar
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    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    most people have a problem with his penalties, not his blocking

    however, for a former round one draft pick, his blocking isnt up to scratch

  7. #7
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    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    Should have moved up for Brown. If J. Slater can't get the kid up to snuff than I don't know if there is much hope. He could be one wopping nose tackle. It's probably the only way he doesn't jump offsides, if the ball is right in front of his face.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Maybe not now, but soon.

  8. #8
    Rambos's Avatar
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    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    Barron IMO is solid, not bad but he could be very good! If he could stop all the penalties.
    I still think we will end up with Jake Long.

    Pace
    Bell
    Cog
    Barron
    Long

    Maybe the Rams might try moving Barron not Jake inside. Barron always looks like he is going early, so he does not get beat. IMO Jake Long would beat him out easy.
    Last edited by Rambos; -03-26-2008 at 11:05 AM.

  9. #9
    moloch41 Guest

    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    It's not actually the penalties- it's the kind of penalty and the fact that he gets it over and over. If it were holding, you can say that he's being beat and needs to compensate, but the fact that he just can't seem to understand a snap count, is just plain scary. A lot of those penalties came at home, so you can't blame crowd noise.

  10. #10
    keith m. klink Guest

    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    i say trade him for a draft pick to someone just in DYER need of a LT and use that pick to grab a better lineman in the draft . i'm sure we could find someone just as good in the 2nd rd .

  11. #11
    TekeRam's Avatar
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    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    Sure Kilnk, but who are you going to find who'll give us a second round pick for him? I'd expect a mid third, and only because of his youth.

    He's really not that bad, he really just needs to pay attention more. Seriously, the guy would be dominant if he was coached better, to tell you the truth. He's not out matched by the opponents, so he has the ability, he just needs to be coached up to his potential.

  12. #12
    txramsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    Barron just needs to relax. I think his rookie year he tried to hard, then last year with all the injuries to the O line he was being looked at as the anchor and he just wasn't ready for that.

    Watch out for year 3. I think he'll do just fine if he just relaxes and plays the game.

  13. #13
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    Barron .... needs to relax. ...he tried to hard
    Wow, never thought I'd hear that.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  14. #14
    txramsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    Aww....you know me. Always got a throw a spin in there that someone may not have thought of. However, I think he was "thinking" more than just "playing". React young man, just react.

  15. #15
    moklerman Guest

    Re: Something interesting on Barron

    I think Barron would benefit greatly from moving to guard. False starts on tackles can often mean they are trying to compensate or are worried about the pass rush. Leonard Davis had the same problem when playing tackle compared to guard. I'm not saying all of Barron's problems are because of this but if he cut's down on the penalties at all, that's a good thing.

    Pace
    Bell
    Cog
    Barron
    Long

    I would really like to see that lineup for the Rams.

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