View Poll Results: Spags/Devaney or Fisher/Snead? Which way do you prefer?

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  • Spags/Devaney approach was the right way! Character outwieghs talent. Knee claps till then end.

    1 3.23%
  • Fisher/Snead did it right! You play to win win the game!!! Risk it all or risk nothing!

    24 77.42%
  • I cant decide, so i picked this option.

    6 19.35%
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Thread: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

  1. #1
    Tampa_Ram's Avatar
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    Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    Since the draft finished i have seen numerous concerns about our picks, whether it be about drafting players who are projects, or players who have documented character concerns.

    Now i know this poll isn't really fair, and would only be so if i posted it a year or two from now after we got to evaluate the latest draftees from our new regime. But heck, im not a very patient man and will forget to make this pole in a year or two so i'll just base this pole off gut feelings.

    In one corner you have the ultra conservative, 4 pillar guru's Spags/Devaney, in the other corner you have the high risk, high reward guru's Fisher/Snead.

    At the end of the day, which philosophy do you prefer?



  2. #2
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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    They tried an approach the the Rams haven't done in the past. So they are definitely taking a risk. At this point, I'm tired of being laughed at for being a Rams fan and am happy that Fisher/Snead did what they did. Its all or nothing what do they have to lose? Its not like they will get fired after the 1st season.
    Last edited by Trevor; -05-01-2012 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Jumped conclusions..

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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    My philosophy is very simple. To build a good team, your core guys must be talented AND have the type of character needed to positively represent your franchise and set a good example for those around them. The notion that "character isn't important" or that you can somehow maintain excellence with numerous key guys who are bad apples represents flawed thinking. Most of the time, a guy with a spotty reputation lets you down.

    Good teams like the Patriots, the Steelers, the Packers or the Giants can take a flyer on a guy of questionable character without it hurting the core of their team. The organization is dealing from a position of strength. If the player screws up, he's gone- and the team doesn't miss a beat. A team like the Rams- a team which has struggled and is trying to find their way- stands to lose a lot if a key guy lets them down. This is the basis of my concern with Jenkins, in particular.

    While some fans don't particularly care, I want to like the players on a team I root for. As a Lakers fan, it kills me to have to support that ***hole Metta World Peace. As a Dodgers fan, I hated having to pull for Darryl Strawberry or more recently Manny Ramirez. I am a fierce competitor, but I want to win the right way.

    People who mock Spags by taking his "4 pillars" theme out of context are either ignorant or don't understand what a good coach tries to do when assembling a squad. Spags and Devaney didn't target enough players who were talented enough to build around. It cost them their jobs. Because they were unsuccessful, they are easy targets for ridicule and derision. But neither they nor anyone else should have to defend themselves for trying to do things in a principled manner.

    Bottom line: I want guys who possess both the necessary talent to help the Rams be successful AND have the good character that make me proud to be a Ram Fan.
    HUbison and Rambos like this.

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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    My philosophy is very simple. To build a good team, your core guys must be talented AND have the type of character needed to positively represent your franchise and set a good example for those around them.
    Steven Jackson, Sam Bradford, Chris Long, James Laurinaitis, Courtland Finnegan, Quentin Mikel, Scott Wells, Danny Ammendola, Harvey Dahl, Roger Saffold... do I need to go on?

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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    I'll abstain from voting, but I thought I'd put my two cents in anyway.

    Four pillars had pretty mixed results. Jason Smith, for example, was a "high risk, high reward" player. We knew that he was raw when we took him, so he's not a great example of Four Pillars philosophy even if he was a disappointment as a Devaney/Spags draft pick. On the other hand, guys like Long, Laurinaitis, Saffold, Fletcher, and Bradford still look like pretty good picks. The draft results were certainly mixed, but they weren't terrible. The bigger personnel problem wasn't the draft philosophy; it was the lack of urgency to bring in legitimate starting receivers, over-reliance on aging veterans on the defense, and inadequate depth to cope with injuries.

    Aside from Jason Smith, guys like Claude Wroten, Richie Incognito, and Dominique Byrd come to mind as disappointing boom/bust players in recent memory. Not to say this as an indictment of the current regime, but when was the last time we drafted a player with "character concerns" who didn't wind up having problems in his professional career?

    In general, I think what you really need isn't a good draft philosophy; it's good judgment to discern between what really constitutes a risk to the team and what doesn't. Yes, reckless, irresponsible, violent, or just plain stupid behavior can be a risk. But so are physical limitations, poor technique, poor work ethic, lingering effects of injuries, and so forth. You have to read the situation well and make calls based on the whole package.
    Bralidore(RAMMODE) likes this.

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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    My opinion on Jenkins is I think the guy is immature and was a risk. But I also tihnk that its a risk we can afford to take.

    I think we have PLENTY of core high character players as mentioned above by C Mob. Not only that but we have a really strong supporting cast with Fisher and his collection of talented veteran coaches.

    If Jenkins screws up and somehow doesnt play a down we still have Finnegan, a personal favorite of mine in Fletcher who is one of the best tackling corners in the elague and a very competent all around starter, Trumaine Johnson who many have stated has first round talent and who ive seen mocked to the Patriots at 31, Jerome Murphy, and Josh Gordy who was competent even though he was clearly not ready to start. We won't die if Jenkins doesn't pan out.

    The rest of the "character concerns" guys consist of Trumaine Johnson who got in one incident at a party with a cop and got tasered. One time deal and the guy is friends with the coaches son.

    To tie in what fleece said. You have to look at every situation seperately and not just go off a analyst saying a guy has "character concerns" and use that as the end all be all and proceed to label a player. You just vcant lumpa group of palyers together and say character concerns because with each guy there is a different personality, background, and talent level. Same with different types of injuries.
    Rambos likes this.

  7. #7
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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    I picked I can't decide.

    I prefer four pillars type guys to be drafted, but if a player makes a mistake then cleans up his act and flys the straight and true draft him.

    To me it will always be BEST AVAILABLE player that fits scheme. Then need.

    I don't care if he is the best looking player QB or RB to come out of college in a long time. If he has multiple infractions with law and soceity don't draft him. Keep the trash away from the Rams.
    The Bengals will draft him.

    I'm not a big fan of risk v's reward or Boom/Bust type players. To me it OK to do the Boom/Bust if you have a great team. Don't do it if your team is terrible. At least it don't cost a bunch of millions for a bust pick.

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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    can't decide. gotta see them play on nfl level for one (haven't seen any of Fisher's picks play); and you also gotta give their character enough time to show whether they will be a problem or not. even great players aren't worth a pork rind if they're watching from their couch nursing a suspension
    Last edited by KoaKoi; -05-02-2012 at 12:36 AM. Reason: spell check

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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    Even a question honestly?? lol

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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Mob 71 View Post
    Steven Jackson, Sam Bradford, Chris Long, James Laurinaitis, Courtland Finnegan, Quentin Mikel, Scott Wells, Danny Ammendola, Harvey Dahl, Roger Saffold... do I need to go on?

    While certainly a number of these guys qualify, all of them- with the exception of Jackson- are young guys themselves who would benefit from good people being brought in here, not problem individuals who will muddy the waters. Quentin Mikell is not a core guy- he's had a cup of coffee with this team. Scott Wells hasn't played a down for the Rams yet. Amendola is a complimentary player. And I would dispute that Cortland Finnegan's reputation as a player who crosses the line between aggressive and dirty exculdes him completely until he shows otherwise.

    Listen, like all Rams fans, I hope Jenkins, Johnson and company work out. I just don't want this organization to start pinning their hopes on jerks year after year because it's akin to selling your soul- and it usually ends badly.

  11. #11
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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    It's a false definition to summarize the DeSpags approach as "Character over Talent". Spagnuolo's 4 Pillars were never a dichotomy of character vs. talent. Rather it was about finding talented players with character. They did well on finding the character players, but finding the talented part (or maybe the devloping of talented players) turned out to be beyond their abilities during their time in St. Louis.

    In the case of Fishead, I think they have more confidence in their ability to develop the talent over and above what the character may lack. I hope they're right.
    NJ Ramsfan1 likes this.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #12
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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    every franchise evolves. no HC or GM is given a blank canvas outside of an "official" expansion team.others good or bad have all played their part.

    it`s far easier to take "risky" moves in the draft now than there has in been previous drafts,maybe Spags and Billy D would have liked to have had that much extra space to swing the bat ,the way Fish and Snead have.
    we`ll never know..but i can find faults in every coach or GM we`ve had,certainly since the 60`s. all have tried to do their best with what they had to play with at the time.

  13. #13
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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    The key for me is winning, period! I voted for Fisher/Snead even though the haven't won a single game for us. We all know what the Spags/Devaney philosophy produced, L's and lots of them.

  14. #14
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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    My philosophy is very simple. To build a good team, your core guys must be talented AND have the type of character needed to positively represent your franchise and set a good example for those around them. The notion that "character isn't important" or that you can somehow maintain excellence with numerous key guys who are bad apples represents flawed thinking. Most of the time, a guy with a spotty reputation lets you down.

    Good teams like the Patriots, the Steelers, the Packers or the Giants can take a flyer on a guy of questionable character without it hurting the core of their team. The organization is dealing from a position of strength. If the player screws up, he's gone- and the team doesn't miss a beat. A team like the Rams- a team which has struggled and is trying to find their way- stands to lose a lot if a key guy lets them down. This is the basis of my concern with Jenkins, in particular.

    While some fans don't particularly care, I want to like the players on a team I root for. As a Lakers fan, it kills me to have to support that ***hole Metta World Peace. As a Dodgers fan, I hated having to pull for Darryl Strawberry or more recently Manny Ramirez. I am a fierce competitor, but I want to win the right way.

    People who mock Spags by taking his "4 pillars" theme out of context are either ignorant or don't understand what a good coach tries to do when assembling a squad. Spags and Devaney didn't target enough players who were talented enough to build around. It cost them their jobs. Because they were unsuccessful, they are easy targets for ridicule and derision. But neither they nor anyone else should have to defend themselves for trying to do things in a principled manner.

    Bottom line: I want guys who possess both the necessary talent to help the Rams be successful AND have the good character that make me proud to be a Ram Fan.
    I agree with you I wish all the guys on the Rams where model citizens but that's never going to happen. I'm also a Lakers fan and I understand, what "Metta" did prior to becoming a Lakers as a pro was enough for me not to want him as a Laker. But and here is the rub the Lakers are one of the most successful franchise in all sport and you know that... and they still took this idiot. Why? Why would a team will all those rings take such a lose cannon? They want to win!

    Why are teams in the NFL calling agents of players just released from prison? They want to win! With X amount of elite talent available it makes it almost impossible to win if you eliminate players with shall we say spotty back grounds and or personal issues.

    That being said I get what you are saying and I agree with you when it comes to players on my team that i want to pull for...

    What I don't get is when a young kid makes poor choices in his young life, that somehow you think that is how he will be the rest of his life. I would hope as we all go through life we grow as people and can become better people learning from our mistakes. How about a second chance...

    Look at Leonard Little, he disappointed me!

    After a drunken birthday in 1998, NFL star Leonard Little crashed into and killed another motorist. When tested, his blood alcohol level measured 0.19 percent. Little received 60 days and 1000 hours of community service. Six years later, after the involuntary manslaughter conviction was wiped from his record, Little was again arrested for drunk driving.

    Now that's disappointing...

    The word Good and the Patriots... don't go together for me... Cheaters does...

    Steelers Ben Roethlisberger will have to clear his schedule -- the commissioner of the NFL wants to talk things out with the embattled QB in the wake of the sexual assault investigation in Georgia.

    Giants'dream season was thrown into turmoil yesterday when Super Bowl star Plaxico Burress accidentally shot himself in the leg. Went to prison,

    Did you say these team are already good and can take chances like drafting a kid with some issues? I say good teams in fact all teams have guys with issues. The league has over 1500 players and some like in society have issues..

    Bottom line: I want guys who possess both the necessary talent to help the Rams be successful AND have the good character that make me proud to be a Ram Fan.
    I think we all would like that not sure it's realistic.

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    Re: Spags/Devany or Fisher/Snead?

    ...No contest. Fisher and Snead all the way.

    Spags and Devaney were a joke

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