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Thread: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

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    Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    First of all, let me start by verifying that everything in this post (notwithstanding my deliberately provocative thread title) is merely my opinion.

    With that said...

    I've read descriptions of the EJD's proposal for improvements to meet the "top tier" requirement in the lease with the Rams. While these "bells and whistles" would certainly appeal to me as a fan who attends games in the dome, I agree with those who have asserted that the proposed changes do no remotely put the stadium in the category of the new buildings in places like Seattle, Dallas, Indianapolis and Houston.

    My sincere belief, though, is that Stan Kroenke does not really care about any of that.

    For him, the "top tier" clause is merely a means to an end. What he wants is the ability to maximize his bottom line. While a new stadium, with lots of corporate suites and box seats, is one way to get to that goal (by increasing the overall revenue), he could also accomplish his goal by using his leverage to get a true "sweetheart deal" with he EJD. Stated another way, even if the size of the pie remains unchanged, he could get a bigger piece.

    I think that is Stan's goal. Despite the media's attempt to portray him as Machiavellian businessman with no concern for the local communiy, I believe that he would prefer to make the Rams work in St. Louis.

    So, in the end, my expectation is that Stan will accept certain changes as sufficient to meet the "first tier" clause but, in reality, the real change will be the size of his share of the overall revenue pie.
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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    So this time your saying they are definitely staying in STL?

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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    Having looked at the article for the proposal, I like some of it (the screen for one), and abhor some of it (the party deck for the club seat patrons and suite owners). I think that the easiest thing in there was the new definition of jumbotron. Look, if you have a dome, you need to have what an open air stadium can't, and that's a big center field screen. It makes me want to get sideline tickets for a bash just so I can see it. I also am intrigued by the natural lighting. It makes sense from an operational standpoint, as well as not having a "I'm in a bunker" feeling. Also, I love the closing Broadway idea. Never knew why it was open in the first place.

    Now, as for the party deck, I hate it. Sure, it's nice for those who pay big bucks for the club seats, but what the team wants is a way to put butts in the seats. Letting the "nobles" look down on us "peasants" doesn't do that. If they want to fill the stadium, why not enhance the pregame tailgating abilities? I love hanging out with my fellow Clannies over in that park and have fun with all of the little games and stuff that vendors put on. Make that even better! Put in something for the everyday fan!

    I agree, Stan doesn't care where he makes his money, nor does he care how. The things that will make him money are either a better stadium that creates a bigger pie(but still needs to get filled, whether new or the EJD), a better slice of the current pie(more revenue %), or what will be best for him is a EJD that gets sold out every week with screaming, intelligent football fans. The CVC needs to show Stan that it will do what it takes to sell out the Dome more than improving it. What happens when it doesn't sell out? Stan has to cut a check, the team doesn't fare as well due to a lack of a 12th man, and the team merchandise doesn't sell as well. All of this causes Stan to lose money. Give him a packed dome and a good ROI, he'll be a happy man.

    So my proposal? Take the area around the Dome and make it more fan friendly. Make people want to be there on Sunday mornings. Inside the dome, make the upper deck better. The screen helps, but make it a place that you want to watch from. Get some "smaller" screens and line the top with them and get a good replay guy. Get some better wireless signals in there. Appeal to the fantasy players with some more stat tracking, I saw that start this past year. Make it a place that I'd rather be than on my couch. Then the dome'll start selling better.

    Also, get some damn good training facilities in there for the Rams.
    Last edited by TekeRam; -02-02-2012 at 11:26 AM.
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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    he could have made his money in So Cal and kept the Rams there,so he atleast cared where he spent his money back then. maybe that has changed,maybe it aint.

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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    First of all, let me start by verifying that everything in this post (notwithstanding my deliberately provocative thread title) is merely my opinion.

    With that said...

    I've read descriptions of the EJD's proposal for improvements to meet the "top tier" requirement in the lease with the Rams. While these "bells and whistles" would certainly appeal to me as a fan who attends games in the dome, I agree with those who have asserted that the proposed changes do no remotely put the stadium in the category of the new buildings in places like Seattle, Dallas, Indianapolis and Houston.

    My sincere belief, though, is that Stan Kroenke does not really care about any of that.

    For him, the "top tier" clause is merely a means to an end. What he wants is the ability to maximize his bottom line. While a new stadium, with lots of corporate suites and box seats, is one way to get to that goal (by increasing the overall revenue), he could also accomplish his goal by using his leverage to get a true "sweetheart deal" with he EJD. Stated another way, even if the size of the pie remains unchanged, he could get a bigger piece.

    I think that is Stan's goal. Despite the media's attempt to portray him as Machiavellian businessman with no concern for the local communiy, I believe that he would prefer to make the Rams work in St. Louis.

    So, in the end, my expectation is that Stan will accept certain changes as sufficient to meet the "first tier" clause but, in reality, the real change will be the size of his share of the overall revenue pie.
    I'm not sure I agree with your premise. I think the profit issue is very important to Mr Kroenke. However, I don't think he wants hs team playing in a dump (I'm not saying the Ed is a dump...now). If the Ed isn't a "top-tier" facility now, with the changes proposed, what will it be in 10 years? The Ed will be the NFL's version of "What Not to Wear." Building a winning culture for the organization is as much about image as anything else. Having a beautiful, new stadium, in itself, won't change the team. But if you're trying to create a homefield advantage, and a place that fans want to go, you don't just put lipstick on the pig. While I think profit is Stan's #1 priority, I think that minimalizing the impact of the stadium is going in the wrong direction.
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    Having been to the EJD many times, I can say that I've never felt that it was a "pig" of a stadium. In my book, when one uses the the phrase, "if you build it, [they] will come," the "it" is a winning team, not a fancy stadium.

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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with your premise. I think the profit issue is very important to Mr Kroenke. However, I don't think he wants hs team playing in a dump (I'm not saying the Ed is a dump...now). If the Ed isn't a "top-tier" facility now, with the changes proposed, what will it be in 10 years? The Ed will be the NFL's version of "What Not to Wear." Building a winning culture for the organization is as much about image as anything else. Having a beautiful, new stadium, in itself, won't change the team. But if you're trying to create a homefield advantage, and a place that fans want to go, you don't just put lipstick on the pig. While I think profit is Stan's #1 priority, I think that minimalizing the impact of the stadium is going in the wrong direction.
    What will those glitzy stadiums be in 10, 20, 30 years? Stadiums wear down, there are only a couple that have lasted the decades, and whereas a lot of people hold emotional attachments to them, they are dumps. Eventually the dome will have to be replaced, no one is ignorant of that fact. More renovations will probably need to be done before that time too. It's the way it goes, every team will have to deal with the fact their stadium will start to look like junk.

    I think players care most about playing for a winning team, not nicer looking brick that they see for 30 seconds as they enter the stadium, or 10 extra square feet in the locker room. Heck, I've read from players that Fenway is a terrible stadium, but guys still mysteriously sign there. Same for the Superdome down here in New Orleans. It ain't pretty or glitzy, but guys are willing to play in it because the fans are rockin' and the team is good. Get a good team, and the players will want to play in the Dome.

    Not to mention it was considered a pretty difficult venue to play in because of the fan noise back in the GSOT days, it could be again, those memories have just faded because it's been so long.

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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    I have been in many "NFL" stadiums and the Ed is as good as it gets in my eyes. Sure there are huge screens and that is well lacking at the Ed so that should be a "must" when it comes to upgrades. I notice that there has been no mention of seat upgrades i.e. get rid of the red.


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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    For him, the "top tier" clause is merely a means to an end.
    It's impossible for us to understand what a millionaire considers top tier.

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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    It's impossible for us to understand what a millionaire considers top tier.
    No, actually... its easy.

    Given Stan's bargaining position, "top tier" means whatever he decides it means. No more, no less.

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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    It could also mean a brand new, state of the art stadium somewhere else. We still don't know if his motivation is to stay put or move. You took the stay put option.

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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    I haven't seen the lease, so I can't say if the term was further described in "lawyer-Speak" (no offense intended). However, I have seen the proposal. I'd upload it but it's too big (45mb). It would seem there is some language in the previous agreement, and more in this proposal to narrow the term "Top-Tier".

    As for the ED, I didn't mean to offend. I'm just saying that the dome will be 20 years old at the 2015 lease release date. As stadiums go, it has issues. As would any 20 year old stadium. I've been to many facilities, including the new stadiums in Dallas and New York/New Jersey. As well as stadiums in SF, Oakland, AZ, MN, Greenbay, Chicago, KC, Pittsburgh, Cleveland. The Ed is OK, it's not as good as it gets. The question is, do the proposed changes make enough of a difference? How difficult will it be to upgrade the facility further? From what I understand, it is structurally impossible to add a retractable roof (plus the field has no drainage. Think large pool). As a matter of fact, I've also heard that it's possible that the proposed windows are also structurally impossible. I'm not a structural engineer, nor do I have access to the ED blueprints. So I can't say whether this is true or not.

    All that aside, Stan has to think about what happens in 2025. Not to do so would be irresponsible to the team, and to STL. How likely are the citizens of STL to approve the funds for a new stadium when the current lease ends. It's not that far away. The discussions will start well before then. Probably by 2015. The people of STL will have just finished paying off the ED in 2025. As I've posted in other threads, a new stadium then is likely to top $1.5 BILLION. So, what Stan needs to figure out is what is the likelyhood of staying in STL past 2025 Vs. upgrading the ED and staying for now Vs. stepping into a new stadium by 2015. There is much more thought that needs to go into this than "will these updates make the Ed good enough for now."
    RAMFANRAIDERHATER likes this.
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    It's impossible for us to understand what a millionaire considers top tier.
    So imagine what it would be like imagining what a billionaire would consider top tier lol


    (I couldnt even spell billionaire without a spell-check).

    I think you'll find it would be a combination of all issues discussed, stadium, making bank, and creating a winning culture.

    I would be a romantic and think that making an awesome stadium for Fans to get pumped up about on Sundays would be grand.

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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    If the Rams play well, I doubt the state of the EJD is even a discussion...

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    Re: Stan Kroenke Doesn't Care if the EJD is a "Top Tier" Stadium

    I'm gonna go ahead and stick with what I've felt all along. The Rams very well may move, and they very well may not. The only thing that's for sure is nothings for sure.

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